T2 IRC Log: 2009-11-12
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Thu Nov 12 00:00:17 2009
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10:21 < rxr> moin
10:22 < rxr> mtr: I know about this amalgemation thing, I did not yet review how the packages differ, e.g. we should still be able to build this tcl binding stuff whatever
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11:13 < mckoan> good morning
11:14 < rxr> moin
11:29 < mckoan> moinsen
11:29 < mckoan> I wonder if does exist a list of platform targets running out-of-the-box with T2
11:33 < rxr> well "sort off"
11:34 < rxr> I guess you're intested in embedded baords ?
11:34 < mckoan> yes, do you have any link please?
11:34 < mckoan> I basically would like to give it a try on a generic x86 with vesa graphics
11:35 < mckoan> and I would like to try an ARM one too ;-)
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11:43 < mckoan> maybe does exist a better where to ask and get an answer?
11:45 < rxr> http://t2-project.org/hardware/
11:45 < rxr> a little embeded stuff listed
11:45 < rxr> of course it will usually work on any regular x86 fluff
11:46 < rxr> note that t2 is for developer, and thus does not work as out of the box as windows or mac os x ...
11:46 < rxr> some manual intervention required
12:16 < rxr> http://www.golem.de/0911/71126.html
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12:59 < CIA-17> rene * r34876 /trunk/package/x11/worker/worker.desc: * updated worker (2.17.4 -> 2.17.5)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34877 /trunk/package/base/sysstat/sysstat.desc: * updated sysstat (9.0.2 -> 9.0.6)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34878 /trunk/package/network/stunnel/stunnel.desc: * updated stunnel (4.27 -> 4.28)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34880 /trunk/package/gnome2/gedit/gedit.desc: * updated gedit (2.28.1 -> 2.28.2)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34879 /trunk/package/develop/sysprof/sysprof.desc: * updated sysprof (1.0.12 -> 1.1.4)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34881 /trunk/package/gnome2/glabels/glabels.desc: * updated glabels (2.2.5 -> 2.2.6)
14:08 < mckoan> rxr: thx, but I have a doubt. In the ARM page I don't see any real platform (SBC, SoM) http://t2-project.org/architectures/arm/
14:09 < rxr> there are thousands, so what?
14:09 < mckoan> rxr: neither into x86
14:09 < rxr> t2 runs on many, even shipping products with pretty case
14:09 < mckoan> rxr: one would be enough
14:09 < rxr> just throw in the linux kernel platform and device patches and let t2 build all the binaries with suitable optimization and done you are
14:09 < rxr> get the beagleboard, ...
14:10 < rxr> or whatever you need
14:10 < mckoan> rxr: marvell PXA270-devboard, or Atmel-xxx-EK for xample
14:20 < rxr> t2 is not mac os x, it's about building blocks
14:20 < rxr> get any or use what you have, configure / setup t2 to build for it
14:22 < mckoan> rxr: thx, so I must argue that there is not any concept of BSP in T2, is there?
14:22 < rxr> BSP is a concept of compnaies selling boards
14:23 < rxr> you could build a BSP for a baord, some companies even do
14:23 < rxr> t2 is like the linux kernel's "menuconfig / kbuidl" and builds what you select
14:23 < rxr> for BSPs, shipping projects, etc. pp.
14:28 < mckoan> rxr: thank you for your explanation. I expected to find something like OpenWRT where if select one of the supported platforms I can get at least a minimal running system for such board.
14:28 < mckoan> rxr: looks like I'm misunderstanding the T2 aim.
14:31 < rxr> well, t2 supports god and the world, it would be zillions of options
14:34 < koan> that would be nice catchphrase for the project: "T2 supports God and the world"
14:34 < mckoan> rxr: ok, I'll read the manual better then. Thank you again :-)
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14:41 [@ChanServ] [ koan ] [ mjungwirth_] [ rxr ] [ TobiX]
14:41 [ aloof ] [ LMJ ] [ mqueiros_ ] [ Stealth] [ Xor_ ]
14:41 [ CIA-17 ] [ mckoan] [ mtr ] [ T-One ]
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15:23 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-11-12/mac-os-x-1062-update-space-requirements/
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16:35 < Baldzius> moin
16:35 < rxr> moin moin
16:35 < Baldzius> hey rxr
16:36 < rxr> mtr: !> checking C++ compiler g++ ... no
16:36 < rxr> !> configure: error: C++ compiler not available, see config.log for details
16:36 < rxr> == 11/12/09 16:34:32 =[0]=> Aborted building package gmp.
16:36 < Baldzius> that what I was going to say
16:36 < Baldzius> he made a mistake
16:36 < Baldzius> atstage cross || var_append extraconfopt ' ' '--enable-cxx'
16:36 < Baldzius> it leaks into toolchain
16:37 < rxr> ah,
16:37 < Baldzius> more likley atstage native && ...
16:38 < Baldzius> then it works fine
16:38 < Baldzius> tried yesterday on ubuntu
16:38 < Baldzius> that fecking 2-gcc linking problem still exists :/
16:39 < rxr> native is not cross build
16:39 < rxr> I guess atstage toolchain || ... ?
16:40 < Baldzius> it will fail for cross also as fas as I understand
16:40 < Baldzius> far*
16:40 < rxr> ah, the other way round, I thought he wanted to enable it
16:40 < rxr> no, he meant it:
16:40 < rxr> r34864 | mtr | 2009-11-11 21:21:06 +0100 (Wed, 11 Nov 2009) | 2 lines
16:40 < rxr> * build gmp cxx wrapper library in toolchain stage
16:40 < rxr> guess for one of the new GCC required loop fluff libs ?
16:41 < Baldzius> hm , maybe
16:41 < rxr> maybe he forgot to enable c++ in gcc in the toolchain stage ?
16:41 < Baldzius> dunno :)
16:42 < rxr> ah
16:42 < rxr> gmp is before gcc?
16:42 < Baldzius> yep
16:42 < rxr> gcc not yet build at that point in time?
16:42 < rxr> when gcc now needs more and more fluff, is less freestanding, dependency circles will become evil
16:43 < Baldzius> it was
16:43 < Baldzius> -if atstage native; then
16:43 < Baldzius> - var_append extraconfopt ' ' '--enable-cxx'
16:43 < Baldzius> -fi
16:43 < Baldzius> and I can confirm that atstage native && var_append extraconfopt ' ' '--enable-cxx'
16:43 < rxr> i think the problem is way simplier
16:44 < rxr> it's not that gmp fault
16:44 < Baldzius> but it stoped on stage 2
16:44 < rxr> gues it's requried for gcc now anyway
16:44 < rxr> due to the fancy C++ based stuff, loop optimization etc.
16:44 < rxr> the problem is elsewhere
16:44 < rxr> might be as simple as hardcoded x86_64 optimization opts in the gmp config
16:44 < rxr> CXXFLAGS chosen by autoconf:
16:44 < rxr> configure:8434: checking C++ compiler g++ -O2 -pedantic -m64 -mtune=k8
16:44 < rxr> Test compile:
16:44 < rxr> configure:8448: g++ -O2 -pedantic -m64 -mtune=k8 conftest.cc >&5
16:44 < rxr> conftest.cc:1: error: bad value (x86_64) for -march= switch
16:44 < rxr> conftest.cc:1: error: bad value (x86_64) for -mtune= switch
16:44 < rxr> configure:8451: $? = 1
16:44 < Baldzius> oh yeah
16:44 < rxr> failed program was:
16:44 < Baldzius> saw that too
16:45 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-11-12/mac-os-x-1062-update-space-requirements/
16:45 < Baldzius> bet before we had it only in native
16:45 < Baldzius> enabled
16:45 < rxr> Baldzius: yeah, but I think mtr's change is all fine
16:46 < rxr> gcc-4.4 has fancy C++ code, now, fany new optimization algorithms, in C++, requireing new, external libs
16:46 < rxr> http://t2-project.org/packages/cloog-ppl.html
16:47 < rxr> http://t2-project.org/packages/ppl.html
16:47 < rxr> http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.4/
16:47 < rxr> http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.4/changes.html
16:47 < rxr> "The Graphite branch has been merged. This merge has brought in a new framework for loop optimizations based on a polyhedral intermediate representation"
16:47 < Baldzius> lovely screenshot btw :)
16:48 < rxr> have you seen this one:
16:48 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-10-29/yes-we-can-mac-os-x-on-nokia-booklet-3g/
16:50 < Baldzius> how it feels in terms of running?
16:52 < Baldzius> found solution to one very nasty problem with flash I have
16:52 < Baldzius> somehow it doesn;'r work correctly if I get xoeg-server compiled without hal
16:53 < rxr> yeah, I' won't comment on the state of open source graphic server stuff named xorg, ...
16:53 < rxr> Baldzius: nokia booklet feels ok in theory
16:53 < Baldzius> it was tesing me last couple of weeks
16:53 < Baldzius> teasing*
16:53 < rxr> support is worts in the world, mine might have a minimal memory glitch (not yet noticed in real world use):
16:53 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-11-06/hardware-error-miscompares-on-nokia-booklet-3g/
16:54 < Baldzius> and intel drivers quality gets worse with every new release
16:54 < rxr> still waiting for some pickup voucher, I still do not have received
16:54 < Baldzius> I didn't have such problems before
16:54 < rxr> but even if I would have gotten it yet, I would probably earliest ship it in on december, as I'll be a little busy and traveling until then and want to have the booklet with me on the road, ...
16:54 < Baldzius> now every upgrade brings something nasty
16:57 < rxr> I think the gmp issue unviels simple that we have no SYSC++ wrapper (SYSCXX)
16:58 < rxr> ouiuiuiuiui
16:58 < rxr> mtr even workaround something in the gmp.conf
16:58 < rxr> r29877 | rene | 2008-08-04 10:03:14 +0200 (Mon, 04 Aug 2008) | 2 lines
16:58 < rxr> * fixed gmp to enable C++ support during native builds, again
17:11 < rxr> with that removed it builds here :-)
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17:43 < rxr> Error logs from minimal-x86-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-i486-cross-linux:
17:43 < rxr> 146 builds total, 37 completed fine, 0 with errors, 109 to go.
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20:38 < rxr> hm
20:38 < rxr> mtr: gcc-4.4 regression:
20:39 < rxr> !> /bin/sh: line 1: 21480 Segmentation fault (core dumped) scripts/mod/modpost -o /mnt/builder/t2-trunk-clean/src.linux26.minimal-x ..
20:39 < rxr> ???
20:39 < rxr> anyway, review later will have those minimal builds continue further
20:44 < mj-netbits_> rxr
20:44 < mj-netbits_> i have found the glibc/i586 problem
20:45 < mj-netbits_> you must remove the x86-i586 patch from the package
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22:43 < CIA-17> mtr * r34882 /trunk/package/develop/cloog-ppl/cloog-ppl.conf: * fixed cloog-ppl for *64 cross builds
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23:10 < CIA-17> mtr * r34883 /trunk/package/base/glibc/glibc.conf:
23:10 < CIA-17> * glibc still has problems if compiled with size
23:10 < CIA-17> optimization, replace all -Os with -O2
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 13 00:00:17 2009
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10:21 < rxr> moin
10:22 < rxr> mtr: I know about this amalgemation thing, I did not yet review how the packages differ, e.g. we should still be able to build this tcl binding stuff whatever
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11:13 < mckoan> good morning
11:14 < rxr> moin
11:29 < mckoan> moinsen
11:29 < mckoan> I wonder if does exist a list of platform targets running out-of-the-box with T2
11:33 < rxr> well "sort off"
11:34 < rxr> I guess you're intested in embedded baords ?
11:34 < mckoan> yes, do you have any link please?
11:34 < mckoan> I basically would like to give it a try on a generic x86 with vesa graphics
11:35 < mckoan> and I would like to try an ARM one too ;-)
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11:43 < mckoan> maybe does exist a better where to ask and get an answer?
11:45 < rxr> http://t2-project.org/hardware/
11:45 < rxr> a little embeded stuff listed
11:45 < rxr> of course it will usually work on any regular x86 fluff
11:46 < rxr> note that t2 is for developer, and thus does not work as out of the box as windows or mac os x ...
11:46 < rxr> some manual intervention required
12:16 < rxr> http://www.golem.de/0911/71126.html
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12:59 < CIA-17> rene * r34876 /trunk/package/x11/worker/worker.desc: * updated worker (2.17.4 -> 2.17.5)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34877 /trunk/package/base/sysstat/sysstat.desc: * updated sysstat (9.0.2 -> 9.0.6)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34878 /trunk/package/network/stunnel/stunnel.desc: * updated stunnel (4.27 -> 4.28)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34880 /trunk/package/gnome2/gedit/gedit.desc: * updated gedit (2.28.1 -> 2.28.2)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34879 /trunk/package/develop/sysprof/sysprof.desc: * updated sysprof (1.0.12 -> 1.1.4)
13:00 < CIA-17> rene * r34881 /trunk/package/gnome2/glabels/glabels.desc: * updated glabels (2.2.5 -> 2.2.6)
14:08 < mckoan> rxr: thx, but I have a doubt. In the ARM page I don't see any real platform (SBC, SoM) http://t2-project.org/architectures/arm/
14:09 < rxr> there are thousands, so what?
14:09 < mckoan> rxr: neither into x86
14:09 < rxr> t2 runs on many, even shipping products with pretty case
14:09 < mckoan> rxr: one would be enough
14:09 < rxr> just throw in the linux kernel platform and device patches and let t2 build all the binaries with suitable optimization and done you are
14:09 < rxr> get the beagleboard, ...
14:10 < rxr> or whatever you need
14:10 < mckoan> rxr: marvell PXA270-devboard, or Atmel-xxx-EK for xample
14:20 < rxr> t2 is not mac os x, it's about building blocks
14:20 < rxr> get any or use what you have, configure / setup t2 to build for it
14:22 < mckoan> rxr: thx, so I must argue that there is not any concept of BSP in T2, is there?
14:22 < rxr> BSP is a concept of compnaies selling boards
14:23 < rxr> you could build a BSP for a baord, some companies even do
14:23 < rxr> t2 is like the linux kernel's "menuconfig / kbuidl" and builds what you select
14:23 < rxr> for BSPs, shipping projects, etc. pp.
14:28 < mckoan> rxr: thank you for your explanation. I expected to find something like OpenWRT where if select one of the supported platforms I can get at least a minimal running system for such board.
14:28 < mckoan> rxr: looks like I'm misunderstanding the T2 aim.
14:31 < rxr> well, t2 supports god and the world, it would be zillions of options
14:34 < koan> that would be nice catchphrase for the project: "T2 supports God and the world"
14:34 < mckoan> rxr: ok, I'll read the manual better then. Thank you again :-)
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14:41 [Users #t2]
14:41 [@ChanServ] [ koan ] [ mjungwirth_] [ rxr ] [ TobiX]
14:41 [ aloof ] [ LMJ ] [ mqueiros_ ] [ Stealth] [ Xor_ ]
14:41 [ CIA-17 ] [ mckoan] [ mtr ] [ T-One ]
14:41 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
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15:23 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-11-12/mac-os-x-1062-update-space-requirements/
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16:35 < Baldzius> moin
16:35 < rxr> moin moin
16:35 < Baldzius> hey rxr
16:36 < rxr> mtr: !> checking C++ compiler g++ ... no
16:36 < rxr> !> configure: error: C++ compiler not available, see config.log for details
16:36 < rxr> == 11/12/09 16:34:32 =[0]=> Aborted building package gmp.
16:36 < Baldzius> that what I was going to say
16:36 < Baldzius> he made a mistake
16:36 < Baldzius> atstage cross || var_append extraconfopt ' ' '--enable-cxx'
16:36 < Baldzius> it leaks into toolchain
16:37 < rxr> ah,
16:37 < Baldzius> more likley atstage native && ...
16:38 < Baldzius> then it works fine
16:38 < Baldzius> tried yesterday on ubuntu
16:38 < Baldzius> that fecking 2-gcc linking problem still exists :/
16:39 < rxr> native is not cross build
16:39 < rxr> I guess atstage toolchain || ... ?
16:40 < Baldzius> it will fail for cross also as fas as I understand
16:40 < Baldzius> far*
16:40 < rxr> ah, the other way round, I thought he wanted to enable it
16:40 < rxr> no, he meant it:
16:40 < rxr> r34864 | mtr | 2009-11-11 21:21:06 +0100 (Wed, 11 Nov 2009) | 2 lines
16:40 < rxr> * build gmp cxx wrapper library in toolchain stage
16:40 < rxr> guess for one of the new GCC required loop fluff libs ?
16:41 < Baldzius> hm , maybe
16:41 < rxr> maybe he forgot to enable c++ in gcc in the toolchain stage ?
16:41 < Baldzius> dunno :)
16:42 < rxr> ah
16:42 < rxr> gmp is before gcc?
16:42 < Baldzius> yep
16:42 < rxr> gcc not yet build at that point in time?
16:42 < rxr> when gcc now needs more and more fluff, is less freestanding, dependency circles will become evil
16:43 < Baldzius> it was
16:43 < Baldzius> -if atstage native; then
16:43 < Baldzius> - var_append extraconfopt ' ' '--enable-cxx'
16:43 < Baldzius> -fi
16:43 < Baldzius> and I can confirm that atstage native && var_append extraconfopt ' ' '--enable-cxx'
16:43 < rxr> i think the problem is way simplier
16:44 < rxr> it's not that gmp fault
16:44 < Baldzius> but it stoped on stage 2
16:44 < rxr> gues it's requried for gcc now anyway
16:44 < rxr> due to the fancy C++ based stuff, loop optimization etc.
16:44 < rxr> the problem is elsewhere
16:44 < rxr> might be as simple as hardcoded x86_64 optimization opts in the gmp config
16:44 < rxr> CXXFLAGS chosen by autoconf:
16:44 < rxr> configure:8434: checking C++ compiler g++ -O2 -pedantic -m64 -mtune=k8
16:44 < rxr> Test compile:
16:44 < rxr> configure:8448: g++ -O2 -pedantic -m64 -mtune=k8 conftest.cc >&5
16:44 < rxr> conftest.cc:1: error: bad value (x86_64) for -march= switch
16:44 < rxr> conftest.cc:1: error: bad value (x86_64) for -mtune= switch
16:44 < rxr> configure:8451: $? = 1
16:44 < Baldzius> oh yeah
16:44 < rxr> failed program was:
16:44 < Baldzius> saw that too
16:45 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-11-12/mac-os-x-1062-update-space-requirements/
16:45 < Baldzius> bet before we had it only in native
16:45 < Baldzius> enabled
16:45 < rxr> Baldzius: yeah, but I think mtr's change is all fine
16:46 < rxr> gcc-4.4 has fancy C++ code, now, fany new optimization algorithms, in C++, requireing new, external libs
16:46 < rxr> http://t2-project.org/packages/cloog-ppl.html
16:47 < rxr> http://t2-project.org/packages/ppl.html
16:47 < rxr> http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.4/
16:47 < rxr> http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.4/changes.html
16:47 < rxr> "The Graphite branch has been merged. This merge has brought in a new framework for loop optimizations based on a polyhedral intermediate representation"
16:47 < Baldzius> lovely screenshot btw :)
16:48 < rxr> have you seen this one:
16:48 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-10-29/yes-we-can-mac-os-x-on-nokia-booklet-3g/
16:50 < Baldzius> how it feels in terms of running?
16:52 < Baldzius> found solution to one very nasty problem with flash I have
16:52 < Baldzius> somehow it doesn;'r work correctly if I get xoeg-server compiled without hal
16:53 < rxr> yeah, I' won't comment on the state of open source graphic server stuff named xorg, ...
16:53 < rxr> Baldzius: nokia booklet feels ok in theory
16:53 < Baldzius> it was tesing me last couple of weeks
16:53 < Baldzius> teasing*
16:53 < rxr> support is worts in the world, mine might have a minimal memory glitch (not yet noticed in real world use):
16:53 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-11-06/hardware-error-miscompares-on-nokia-booklet-3g/
16:54 < Baldzius> and intel drivers quality gets worse with every new release
16:54 < rxr> still waiting for some pickup voucher, I still do not have received
16:54 < Baldzius> I didn't have such problems before
16:54 < rxr> but even if I would have gotten it yet, I would probably earliest ship it in on december, as I'll be a little busy and traveling until then and want to have the booklet with me on the road, ...
16:54 < Baldzius> now every upgrade brings something nasty
16:57 < rxr> I think the gmp issue unviels simple that we have no SYSC++ wrapper (SYSCXX)
16:58 < rxr> ouiuiuiuiui
16:58 < rxr> mtr even workaround something in the gmp.conf
16:58 < rxr> r29877 | rene | 2008-08-04 10:03:14 +0200 (Mon, 04 Aug 2008) | 2 lines
16:58 < rxr> * fixed gmp to enable C++ support during native builds, again
17:11 < rxr> with that removed it builds here :-)
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17:43 < rxr> Error logs from minimal-x86-8.0-trunk-generic-x86-i486-cross-linux:
17:43 < rxr> 146 builds total, 37 completed fine, 0 with errors, 109 to go.
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20:38 < rxr> hm
20:38 < rxr> mtr: gcc-4.4 regression:
20:39 < rxr> !> /bin/sh: line 1: 21480 Segmentation fault (core dumped) scripts/mod/modpost -o /mnt/builder/t2-trunk-clean/src.linux26.minimal-x ..
20:39 < rxr> ???
20:39 < rxr> anyway, review later will have those minimal builds continue further
20:44 < mj-netbits_> rxr
20:44 < mj-netbits_> i have found the glibc/i586 problem
20:45 < mj-netbits_> you must remove the x86-i586 patch from the package
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22:43 < CIA-17> mtr * r34882 /trunk/package/develop/cloog-ppl/cloog-ppl.conf: * fixed cloog-ppl for *64 cross builds
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23:10 < CIA-17> mtr * r34883 /trunk/package/base/glibc/glibc.conf:
23:10 < CIA-17> * glibc still has problems if compiled with size
23:10 < CIA-17> optimization, replace all -Os with -O2
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 13 00:00:17 2009