T2 IRC Log: 2007-03-10
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Sat Mar 10 00:00:35 2007
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10:24 < sepp> moin :)
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10:44 < AStorm> moin
10:44 < AStorm> I've a short question: what exactly is installed in the "glibc headers" step of T2?
10:45 < sepp> "glibc headers" ?
10:45 < sepp> maybe linux header?
10:46 < AStorm> No no.
10:46 < AStorm> The glibc step in stage0
10:46 < AStorm> It installs just the headers, right?
10:47 < sepp> yes
10:47 < AStorm> I'll have to know what's the command, or is that just a smart cp? :>
10:48 < sepp> it does a 'make install-headers'
10:48 < sepp> you can just run that
10:48 < sepp> no need to mess with it
10:48 < sepp> :)
10:49 < sepp> run build-target
10:49 < AStorm> Ah yes.
10:49 < AStorm> No no, I'm building from the command line, myself
10:49 < AStorm> Some 2.5 snapshot from today.
10:50 < AStorm> (the last one I tried was compile-time botched)
10:51 < sepp> why would you want to build everything yourself?
10:51 < sepp> might be boring to type make 500 times
10:51 < sepp> :)
10:52 < AStorm> 500? :P
10:52 < AStorm> You do underestimate my build system.
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10:52 < AStorm> That'd be more like "install-world"
10:52 < AStorm> But I need a bootstrap toolchain first.
10:55 < Stelz> hi sepp, AStorm
10:55 < Stelz> rxr: ping
10:56 < sepp> hi Stelz
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11:35 < rxr> re
11:35 < Stelz> rxr:
11:35 < Stelz> moin
11:35 < Stelz> and
11:35 < rxr> moin
11:35 < Stelz> 23:50'21 | Stelz> rxr: ! we need to edit a link for a download location @ DistroWatch. http://www.t2-project.org/download.html -> http://www.t2-project.org/download/
11:36 < rxr> oh
11:36 < Stelz> :-)
11:38 < Stelz> rxr: and also contact: http://www.t2-project.org/contact.html -> http://www.t2-project.org/contact/
11:40 < rxr> yeah - I see
11:40 < rxr> I'll send them an email
11:41 < AStorm> There will be a new gcc release soon... 4.2.0
11:41 < AStorm> rc1 is upcoming
11:41 < Stelz> uhh..
11:42 < AStorm> With less regressions than 4.1.2. Funny, eh?
11:42 < rxr> mail sent
11:43 < rxr> GCC is a complex beast
11:43 < rxr> I would not like to do their job ...
11:44 < AStorm> Complex is a gross understatement.
11:44 < AStorm> It requires a genius to hack a compiler that advanced.
11:47 < rxr> the only thing I really regret is that the beast becomes slower every release.
11:47 < rxr> especially annoying as it requires a new multi core box every year for our regression testing ...
11:48 < AStorm> 4.2.0 is faster than 4.1.2 :D
11:48 < AStorm> which was faster than 4.0.x
11:48 < CIA-8> rene * r22893 /trunk/package/base/upstart/upstart.desc: * updated upstart (0.3.5 -> 0.3.7)
11:49 < AStorm> So, the trend is getting better.
11:49 < rxr> hm? not for me :-)(
11:49 < rxr> not faster that is ...
11:50 < AStorm> hm?
11:50 < AStorm> Well, my benches are getting better with each 4.x release
11:50 < AStorm> though these are still slower a bit (4.2.0) than 3.3.x
11:50 < AStorm> (though not than 3.4.x)
11:51 < AStorm> They're the fastest with -O0 and -O1 though :>
11:51 < sepp> new version, new gb ram needed to compile a c++ template? :P
11:52 < AStorm> Nope.
11:52 < AStorm> :-)
11:52 < AStorm> Less than 4.1 and 4.0 fortunately
11:53 < AStorm> (thanks to new and better data structures)
11:55 < AStorm> 4.3 will be even lighter - offloads some work to GMP and MPFR - and now requires them
11:56 < CIA-8> rene * r22894 /trunk/package/develop/git/git.desc: * updated git (1.5.0.2 -> 1.5.0.3)
11:56 < sepp> sure?
11:56 < CIA-8> rene * r22895 /trunk/package/develop/uncrustify/uncrustify.desc: * updated uncrustify (0.32 -> 0.33)
11:56 < AStorm> sepp, sure sure.
11:56 < AStorm> They've dumped some obsolete optimisation stages too :>
11:57 < AStorm> (with a new replacement)
11:57 < AStorm> Probably, 4.3 will be to 4.2 like 4.1 was to 4.0
11:57 < AStorm> straight better :P
11:58 < AStorm> Oh, major changes even :P
11:58 < AStorm> "gcj now uses the Eclipse Java compiler for its Java parsing needs. This enables the use of all 1.5 language features, and fixes most existing front end bugs."
11:58 < sepp> well, so far it seems to become slower with every release and consume much more mem ...
11:58 < AStorm> Hmm?
11:58 < AStorm> With every major release, you say? :P
11:58 < AStorm> 3.x vs 4.x, it's true
11:59 < AStorm> 4.0.x vs 4.1.x, not
11:59 < CIA-8> rene * r22896 /trunk/package/filesystem/udev/udev.desc: * updated udev (105 -> 106)
12:00 < AStorm> Well... 4.3 will rock if they fix this:
12:00 < AStorm> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30735
12:01 < AStorm> 40 PRs not in older versions currently
12:06 < AStorm> 4.2 has like... 10.
12:06 < AStorm> And mostly weird.
12:10 < AStorm> Heh, 4.2 has some perf. regressions
12:10 < AStorm> (in generated code)
12:14 < AStorm> Also, they're uncovering layers and layers of latent bugs :P
12:14 < AStorm> (since 4.x)
12:44 < rxr> so - I have to buy some new screwdrivers ... back in some minutes ...
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14:03 < AStorm> Ok, now I've caught the cause of the failure
14:03 < AStorm> Some specs have to be mutated in gcc.
14:04 < AStorm> I find it funny that CLFS does with a patch, what can be done with a simple sed :P
14:05 < AStorm> find gcc/config -name \*.h | xargs sed 's:\(DYNAMIC_LINKER\(\|32\|64\) "\)/lib:\1/tools/lib:' -i
14:06 < AStorm> (older GCCs require one more sed)
14:11 < AStorm> GCC 4.2.0 also defines some more specs properly, not hardcoded.
14:12 < AStorm> And they don't use the -i parameter to sed :P
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14:41 < d-marc> hi
14:42 < rxr> hi d-marc
14:42 < rxr> we do not yet have scratchbox a-like yet
14:43 < rxr> we rather want to cross compile as much as possible
14:43 < rxr> but if someone would integrate support that would be fine asw ell
14:43 < d-marc> even better
14:44 < d-marc> scratchbox sucks really bad
15:48 < TobiX> A friend of mine uses Scratchbox for a project... He needs to run it in a Debian chroot/qemu because it does not run on Gentoo...
15:52 < AStorm> Drat.
15:52 < AStorm> Again...
15:52 < AStorm> Probably I can't build the 32-bit glibc, because I do not have 32-bit tools? :P
15:52 < AStorm> Maybe I have to build some :P
15:57 < AStorm> Well, it should build anyway...
15:59 < AStorm> yet, it doesn't.
15:59 < AStorm> I wonder why...
15:59 < AStorm> Hm.
15:59 < AStorm> Maybe it's just because I tried using 64-bit system to build 32-bit tools, and the guide is flawed :P
16:01 < AStorm> If you will:
16:01 < AStorm> http://cross-lfs.org/view/svn/x86_64/cross-tools/glibc.html
16:02 < AStorm> Should work, but doesn't :/
16:02 < AStorm> 1. errors like:
16:04 < AStorm> error: "TLS support is required"
16:04 < AStorm> When I "fixed" that with a forced define, then
16:04 < AStorm> ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386/sysdep.S: Assembler messages:
16:04 < AStorm> ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386/sysdep.S:35: Error: invalid character '_' in mnemonic
16:06 < AStorm> I have no idea at all. The system is to be a multilib x86_64
16:06 < AStorm> (plain x86_64 built fine, BTW)
16:07 < Capey> hmm, whats this? you trying to build 32bit glibc with multilib disabled?
16:09 < AStorm> With multilib enabled.
16:09 < AStorm> But I'm baffled.
16:09 < AStorm> Well... now 64-bit build also fails with the exact same message (?!?)
16:10 < AStorm> While it went fine with T2...
16:10 < d-marc> TobiX: I couldn't install that tgz version on debian either, only the debs
16:13 < AStorm> Hel.
16:13 < AStorm> *hell
16:13 < AStorm> The thing should _just_ _work_
16:15 < d-marc> AStorm: the first or the second thing?
16:16 < AStorm> Both :P
16:16 < AStorm> T2 should build, yes.
16:16 < AStorm> And the CLFS too (it does everything properly it seems)
16:24 < AStorm> Binutils bug, or something totally different?
16:25 < AStorm> Hehe, now I've got it :P
16:25 < AStorm> Stupid thing builds binutils w/o threads support.
16:26 < AStorm> I wonder why would the glibc build then ever.
16:27 < AStorm> I meant gcc :>
16:32 < AStorm> So I have to install glibc headers, then build binutils with threads support, and CLFS is broken.
16:32 < AStorm> T2 is too, probably :P
16:43 < CIA-8> susan * r22897 /trunk/package/x11/glew/glew.desc: * updated glew (1.3.5 -> 1.3.6)
16:43 < CIA-8> susan * r22898 /trunk/package/gnome2/gtkmm/gtkmm.desc: * updated gtkmm (2.10.7 -> 2.10.8)
16:43 < CIA-8> susan * r22899 /trunk/package/gnome2/glib/glib.desc: * updated glib (2.12.9 -> 2.12.11)
16:44 < CIA-8> susan * r22900 /trunk/package/gnome2/glibmm/glibmm.desc: * updated glibmm (2.12.6 -> 2.12.7)
16:45 < AStorm> Bonus points for glibc - forgot to install include/gnu/stubs.h :>
16:47 < AStorm> Damn, the assembler still hates me.
16:47 < AStorm> :|
16:49 * Capey curses busybox
16:49 < Capey> it just doesnt want to cross build
16:52 < AStorm> I wonder _why_ does the assembler bitch.
16:59 < AStorm> Ok, I'm done :P
17:00 < AStorm> Latest 2.17 branch of binutils is... broken.
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18:06 < misl> hi folks
18:50 < Capey> hi misl
18:51 < misl> hi Capey :-)
18:51 < Capey> damm, i bought wrong type of A/V card... looks like pinnacle is not well or at all supported in kernel
18:54 < Capey> rxr: what would you think if i start upgrading uclibc to latest svn rev
18:54 < Capey> rxr: i think back porting those needed features to current one awful lot of work
18:55 < Capey> rxr: well, upgrading needs work too since quick try most of the current patches in trunk does not apply
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20:27 < AStorm> Huh.
20:27 < AStorm> No, 2.17 isn't broken :D
20:27 < AStorm> It was just that glibc 2.5-branch cannot be built with binutils 2.16.1 :P
20:31 < AStorm> So, you just can't build a cross.
20:32 < AStorm> First, you have to update the binutils :P
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20:35 < AStorm> That doesn't change the fact that Gentoo toolchain is plain broken :>
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21:10 < AStorm> Ok, Gentoo devs lost 1:0 again :P
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21:40 < rxr> rehi
21:40 < rxr> Capey: no uclibc trunk has many new regressions
21:40 < rxr> we downdated already once
21:40 < rxr> our trunk uclibc is pretty fine - what does make you think there's a problem ?
21:41 < rxr> and I think mtr also does use it on MIPS
21:41 < rxr> valentin: I managed to repair the Psion 5MX display
21:42 < rxr> I hope the tweaked flex plastic wire ...
21:42 < rxr> survives the rebuilding again
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 11 00:00:37 2007
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10:24 < sepp> moin :)
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10:44 < AStorm> moin
10:44 < AStorm> I've a short question: what exactly is installed in the "glibc headers" step of T2?
10:45 < sepp> "glibc headers" ?
10:45 < sepp> maybe linux header?
10:46 < AStorm> No no.
10:46 < AStorm> The glibc step in stage0
10:46 < AStorm> It installs just the headers, right?
10:47 < sepp> yes
10:47 < AStorm> I'll have to know what's the command, or is that just a smart cp? :>
10:48 < sepp> it does a 'make install-headers'
10:48 < sepp> you can just run that
10:48 < sepp> no need to mess with it
10:48 < sepp> :)
10:49 < sepp> run build-target
10:49 < AStorm> Ah yes.
10:49 < AStorm> No no, I'm building from the command line, myself
10:49 < AStorm> Some 2.5 snapshot from today.
10:50 < AStorm> (the last one I tried was compile-time botched)
10:51 < sepp> why would you want to build everything yourself?
10:51 < sepp> might be boring to type make 500 times
10:51 < sepp> :)
10:52 < AStorm> 500? :P
10:52 < AStorm> You do underestimate my build system.
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10:52 < AStorm> That'd be more like "install-world"
10:52 < AStorm> But I need a bootstrap toolchain first.
10:55 < Stelz> hi sepp, AStorm
10:55 < Stelz> rxr: ping
10:56 < sepp> hi Stelz
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11:35 < rxr> re
11:35 < Stelz> rxr:
11:35 < Stelz> moin
11:35 < Stelz> and
11:35 < rxr> moin
11:35 < Stelz> 23:50'21 | Stelz> rxr: ! we need to edit a link for a download location @ DistroWatch. http://www.t2-project.org/download.html -> http://www.t2-project.org/download/
11:36 < rxr> oh
11:36 < Stelz> :-)
11:38 < Stelz> rxr: and also contact: http://www.t2-project.org/contact.html -> http://www.t2-project.org/contact/
11:40 < rxr> yeah - I see
11:40 < rxr> I'll send them an email
11:41 < AStorm> There will be a new gcc release soon... 4.2.0
11:41 < AStorm> rc1 is upcoming
11:41 < Stelz> uhh..
11:42 < AStorm> With less regressions than 4.1.2. Funny, eh?
11:42 < rxr> mail sent
11:43 < rxr> GCC is a complex beast
11:43 < rxr> I would not like to do their job ...
11:44 < AStorm> Complex is a gross understatement.
11:44 < AStorm> It requires a genius to hack a compiler that advanced.
11:47 < rxr> the only thing I really regret is that the beast becomes slower every release.
11:47 < rxr> especially annoying as it requires a new multi core box every year for our regression testing ...
11:48 < AStorm> 4.2.0 is faster than 4.1.2 :D
11:48 < AStorm> which was faster than 4.0.x
11:48 < CIA-8> rene * r22893 /trunk/package/base/upstart/upstart.desc: * updated upstart (0.3.5 -> 0.3.7)
11:49 < AStorm> So, the trend is getting better.
11:49 < rxr> hm? not for me :-)(
11:49 < rxr> not faster that is ...
11:50 < AStorm> hm?
11:50 < AStorm> Well, my benches are getting better with each 4.x release
11:50 < AStorm> though these are still slower a bit (4.2.0) than 3.3.x
11:50 < AStorm> (though not than 3.4.x)
11:51 < AStorm> They're the fastest with -O0 and -O1 though :>
11:51 < sepp> new version, new gb ram needed to compile a c++ template? :P
11:52 < AStorm> Nope.
11:52 < AStorm> :-)
11:52 < AStorm> Less than 4.1 and 4.0 fortunately
11:53 < AStorm> (thanks to new and better data structures)
11:55 < AStorm> 4.3 will be even lighter - offloads some work to GMP and MPFR - and now requires them
11:56 < CIA-8> rene * r22894 /trunk/package/develop/git/git.desc: * updated git (1.5.0.2 -> 1.5.0.3)
11:56 < sepp> sure?
11:56 < CIA-8> rene * r22895 /trunk/package/develop/uncrustify/uncrustify.desc: * updated uncrustify (0.32 -> 0.33)
11:56 < AStorm> sepp, sure sure.
11:56 < AStorm> They've dumped some obsolete optimisation stages too :>
11:57 < AStorm> (with a new replacement)
11:57 < AStorm> Probably, 4.3 will be to 4.2 like 4.1 was to 4.0
11:57 < AStorm> straight better :P
11:58 < AStorm> Oh, major changes even :P
11:58 < AStorm> "gcj now uses the Eclipse Java compiler for its Java parsing needs. This enables the use of all 1.5 language features, and fixes most existing front end bugs."
11:58 < sepp> well, so far it seems to become slower with every release and consume much more mem ...
11:58 < AStorm> Hmm?
11:58 < AStorm> With every major release, you say? :P
11:58 < AStorm> 3.x vs 4.x, it's true
11:59 < AStorm> 4.0.x vs 4.1.x, not
11:59 < CIA-8> rene * r22896 /trunk/package/filesystem/udev/udev.desc: * updated udev (105 -> 106)
12:00 < AStorm> Well... 4.3 will rock if they fix this:
12:00 < AStorm> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30735
12:01 < AStorm> 40 PRs not in older versions currently
12:06 < AStorm> 4.2 has like... 10.
12:06 < AStorm> And mostly weird.
12:10 < AStorm> Heh, 4.2 has some perf. regressions
12:10 < AStorm> (in generated code)
12:14 < AStorm> Also, they're uncovering layers and layers of latent bugs :P
12:14 < AStorm> (since 4.x)
12:44 < rxr> so - I have to buy some new screwdrivers ... back in some minutes ...
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14:03 < AStorm> Ok, now I've caught the cause of the failure
14:03 < AStorm> Some specs have to be mutated in gcc.
14:04 < AStorm> I find it funny that CLFS does with a patch, what can be done with a simple sed :P
14:05 < AStorm> find gcc/config -name \*.h | xargs sed 's:\(DYNAMIC_LINKER\(\|32\|64\) "\)/lib:\1/tools/lib:' -i
14:06 < AStorm> (older GCCs require one more sed)
14:11 < AStorm> GCC 4.2.0 also defines some more specs properly, not hardcoded.
14:12 < AStorm> And they don't use the -i parameter to sed :P
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14:41 < d-marc> hi
14:42 < rxr> hi d-marc
14:42 < rxr> we do not yet have scratchbox a-like yet
14:43 < rxr> we rather want to cross compile as much as possible
14:43 < rxr> but if someone would integrate support that would be fine asw ell
14:43 < d-marc> even better
14:44 < d-marc> scratchbox sucks really bad
15:48 < TobiX> A friend of mine uses Scratchbox for a project... He needs to run it in a Debian chroot/qemu because it does not run on Gentoo...
15:52 < AStorm> Drat.
15:52 < AStorm> Again...
15:52 < AStorm> Probably I can't build the 32-bit glibc, because I do not have 32-bit tools? :P
15:52 < AStorm> Maybe I have to build some :P
15:57 < AStorm> Well, it should build anyway...
15:59 < AStorm> yet, it doesn't.
15:59 < AStorm> I wonder why...
15:59 < AStorm> Hm.
15:59 < AStorm> Maybe it's just because I tried using 64-bit system to build 32-bit tools, and the guide is flawed :P
16:01 < AStorm> If you will:
16:01 < AStorm> http://cross-lfs.org/view/svn/x86_64/cross-tools/glibc.html
16:02 < AStorm> Should work, but doesn't :/
16:02 < AStorm> 1. errors like:
16:04 < AStorm> error: "TLS support is required"
16:04 < AStorm> When I "fixed" that with a forced define, then
16:04 < AStorm> ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386/sysdep.S: Assembler messages:
16:04 < AStorm> ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386/sysdep.S:35: Error: invalid character '_' in mnemonic
16:06 < AStorm> I have no idea at all. The system is to be a multilib x86_64
16:06 < AStorm> (plain x86_64 built fine, BTW)
16:07 < Capey> hmm, whats this? you trying to build 32bit glibc with multilib disabled?
16:09 < AStorm> With multilib enabled.
16:09 < AStorm> But I'm baffled.
16:09 < AStorm> Well... now 64-bit build also fails with the exact same message (?!?)
16:10 < AStorm> While it went fine with T2...
16:10 < d-marc> TobiX: I couldn't install that tgz version on debian either, only the debs
16:13 < AStorm> Hel.
16:13 < AStorm> *hell
16:13 < AStorm> The thing should _just_ _work_
16:15 < d-marc> AStorm: the first or the second thing?
16:16 < AStorm> Both :P
16:16 < AStorm> T2 should build, yes.
16:16 < AStorm> And the CLFS too (it does everything properly it seems)
16:24 < AStorm> Binutils bug, or something totally different?
16:25 < AStorm> Hehe, now I've got it :P
16:25 < AStorm> Stupid thing builds binutils w/o threads support.
16:26 < AStorm> I wonder why would the glibc build then ever.
16:27 < AStorm> I meant gcc :>
16:32 < AStorm> So I have to install glibc headers, then build binutils with threads support, and CLFS is broken.
16:32 < AStorm> T2 is too, probably :P
16:43 < CIA-8> susan * r22897 /trunk/package/x11/glew/glew.desc: * updated glew (1.3.5 -> 1.3.6)
16:43 < CIA-8> susan * r22898 /trunk/package/gnome2/gtkmm/gtkmm.desc: * updated gtkmm (2.10.7 -> 2.10.8)
16:43 < CIA-8> susan * r22899 /trunk/package/gnome2/glib/glib.desc: * updated glib (2.12.9 -> 2.12.11)
16:44 < CIA-8> susan * r22900 /trunk/package/gnome2/glibmm/glibmm.desc: * updated glibmm (2.12.6 -> 2.12.7)
16:45 < AStorm> Bonus points for glibc - forgot to install include/gnu/stubs.h :>
16:47 < AStorm> Damn, the assembler still hates me.
16:47 < AStorm> :|
16:49 * Capey curses busybox
16:49 < Capey> it just doesnt want to cross build
16:52 < AStorm> I wonder _why_ does the assembler bitch.
16:59 < AStorm> Ok, I'm done :P
17:00 < AStorm> Latest 2.17 branch of binutils is... broken.
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18:06 < misl> hi folks
18:50 < Capey> hi misl
18:51 < misl> hi Capey :-)
18:51 < Capey> damm, i bought wrong type of A/V card... looks like pinnacle is not well or at all supported in kernel
18:54 < Capey> rxr: what would you think if i start upgrading uclibc to latest svn rev
18:54 < Capey> rxr: i think back porting those needed features to current one awful lot of work
18:55 < Capey> rxr: well, upgrading needs work too since quick try most of the current patches in trunk does not apply
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20:27 < AStorm> Huh.
20:27 < AStorm> No, 2.17 isn't broken :D
20:27 < AStorm> It was just that glibc 2.5-branch cannot be built with binutils 2.16.1 :P
20:31 < AStorm> So, you just can't build a cross.
20:32 < AStorm> First, you have to update the binutils :P
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20:35 < AStorm> That doesn't change the fact that Gentoo toolchain is plain broken :>
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21:10 < AStorm> Ok, Gentoo devs lost 1:0 again :P
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21:40 < rxr> rehi
21:40 < rxr> Capey: no uclibc trunk has many new regressions
21:40 < rxr> we downdated already once
21:40 < rxr> our trunk uclibc is pretty fine - what does make you think there's a problem ?
21:41 < rxr> and I think mtr also does use it on MIPS
21:41 < rxr> valentin: I managed to repair the Psion 5MX display
21:42 < rxr> I hope the tweaked flex plastic wire ...
21:42 < rxr> survives the rebuilding again
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 11 00:00:37 2007