T2 IRC Log: 2005-05-10

This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.

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--- Log opened Tue May 10 00:00:47 2005
00:20 -!- sparc-kly|U5 is now known as sparc-kly|UniV
00:24 -!- keinek [~Keinek@201.254.13.25] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:29 -!- sparc-kly|UniV is now known as sparc-kly[work]
00:37 < valentin> re
00:41 < sparc-kly[work]> hi
00:45 < valentin> hi sparc-kly[work]
01:43 < valentin> what are you [work]ing at ?
01:48 -!- ojh [~omer@208-45-98-20.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #t2
02:39 < valentin> i have to sleep now, cu
02:40 -!- ojh [~omer@208-45-98-20.eugn.qwest.net] has left #t2 []
03:37 -!- sparc-kly[work] [~mubex@66-50-123-218.prtc.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
03:39 -!- ojh [~omer@208-45-98-20.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #t2
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03:44 < mnemoc_> re
04:33 -!- sparc-kly [~sunultra@65-23-193-208.prtc.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
04:34 -!- sparc-kly [~sunultra@65-23-193-208.prtc.net] has joined #t2
05:34 -!- sparc-kly|G4 [~powerbook@65-23-193-208.prtc.net] has joined #t2
05:35 < sparc-kly|G4> Linux powerbook 2.6.10-5-powerpc #1 Tue Apr 5 12:44:32 UTC 2005 ppc GNU/Linux
05:35 < sparc-kly|G4> :D
05:41 -!- sparc-kly|G4 [~powerbook@65-23-193-208.prtc.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
06:12 < rxr> re
06:28 < rxr> http://gsmp.tfh-berlin.de/ftp/t2/unstable/t2-live-2.2.0-alpha.iso
06:57 -!- CIA-10 [~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx] has quit [Excess Flood]
06:57 -!- CIA-10 [~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx] has joined #t2
07:10 < rxr> Postfix 2.1.6
07:23 < rxr> Xbox 350:
07:23 < rxr> Xbox 360:
07:23 < rxr> Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU - 3 symmetrical cores at 3.2 GHz each - 2 hardware threads per core - 1 VMX-128 vector unit per core - 1 MB L2 cache
07:23 < rxr> http://www.activewin.com/awin/comments.asp?HeadlineIndex=29527&Group=1
07:39 < CIA-10> rene * r8749 /trunk/package/ (base/hal/hal.desc network/dbus/dbus.desc):
07:39 < CIA-10> * added dbus I tag
07:39 < CIA-10> * fixed U tag for dbus and hal
08:02 < CIA-10> rene * r8750 /trunk/package/network/dbus/ (dbus.desc hotfix.patch): * updated dbus (0.31 -> 0.33)
08:24 < rxr> s.th. is imperfect with out kernel configf
08:25 < rxr> no matter what I do - even building manually - if the .config is based on our auto created one it will not boot on my Pentium MMX @ 233
08:25 < rxr> when I do defconfig and select pentium-mmx the kernel will build ..
08:33 < CIA-10> rene * r8751 /trunk/package/base/hal/hal.desc: * updated hal (0.5.0 -> 0.5.1)
08:42 < CIA-10> rene * r8752 /trunk/package/base/linux-header/hiddev.patch:
08:42 < CIA-10> * fixed linux-header hiddev.h for inclusion from user-space, e.g.
08:42 < CIA-10> by hal
09:20 < rxr> weeeeeee - ok now a kernel boots on the Pentium
09:21 < rxr> I suspect one of these made the change:
09:21 < rxr> -CONFIG_X86_GOOD_APIC=y
09:21 < rxr> -CONFIG_X86_INTEL_USERCOPY=y
09:21 < rxr> -CONFIG_STOP_MACHINE=y
09:22 < rxr> -CONFIG_X86_TSC=y
09:22 < rxr> -CONFIG_MATH_EMULATION=y
09:25 < rxr> hm - or not
09:25 < rxr> damn - that is a crap ...
09:34 < rxr> maybe it was CONFIG_CPU_FREQ
09:37 -!- _jeru [~jeru@mail.oberlinhaus.de] has joined #t2
09:38 < _jeru> moin
09:38 < rxr> moin jsaw
09:39 < rxr> damn it also was not CPU_FREQ
09:39 < rxr> this continous to be boring ...
09:39 < rxr> seldom did such crap work ..
09:39 -!- _jeru is now known as jeru
09:40 < jeru> rxr: hmmmm .... I've problems building a bootdisk target on 2.1 ... dietlibc fails with
09:41 < jeru> pic-i386/libc.so: file not recognized: File format not recognized
09:41 < jeru> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
09:41 < jeru> make: *** [pic-i386/diet-dyn] Error 1
09:41 < rxr> retry
09:41 < rxr> might be parallel issue ...
09:41 < jeru> ok
09:41 < rxr> if it passes then we should finally flag it as NOPARALLEL
09:41 < rxr> I mean try with NOPARALLEL even
09:41 < jeru> ok :)
09:41 < jeru> curl fails on 2.1 build too
09:42 < rxr> uh?
09:42 < jeru> checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
09:42 < jeru> stage 5
09:46 < rxr> hm
09:46 < rxr> never seen that ...
09:46 < jeru> rxr: now dietlibc builds without NOPARALLEL ...
09:46 < rxr> best consult the config.log config.status whatever that the details of this error are ...
09:47 < rxr> jeru: yeah - seen that a few times
09:47 < rxr> flag it NOPARALLEL ... :-((
09:59 < rxr> toll
09:59 < rxr> this shit damn kernel hackers
09:59 < rxr> why the hell does a PENTIUM_MMX kernel not boot on a Pentium-MMX
09:59 < rxr> I could kick them all over ...
09:59 < rxr> wasted 24 hours trying various kernel configs and burn the results on CD ...
10:19 < jeru> rxr: I could kick them for their stupid naming convention. why the hell they add a NAME tag (like "woozy beaver" shit) in the toplevel Makefile. I think simple version numbers are enough.
10:19 < rxr> yeah - senseless crap ...
10:20 < rxr> maybe it comes from Linus confusing his kids night tales with the kernel ...
10:20 < rxr> but that I wasted a full boring day trying whta the h*ll makes the kernel hand on boot on that box is quite more serious than whatever name they must inject ...
10:20 < jeru> ack
10:22 < jeru> sometimes I think about using some *BSD flavour in favour of linux anyway
10:24 < jeru> but perhaps one will be confronted with other "political" issues there
10:31 < rxr> BSD suck even more ..
10:32 < rxr> have you ever tinkered or build a BSD kernel =
10:32 < rxr> ? ev3en
10:32 < rxr> ah - damn - typing today
10:35 < jeru> rxr: haven't build a BSD kernel yet ... just used prebuilded FreeBSD some years ago ...
10:36 < jeru> rxr: but if you say it sucks ... I trust your position ;)
10:37 < rxr> not too much different with config options and such - but uglier - and many combinations do not compile or work as well
10:37 < rxr> my latest test kernel showed it was not PENTIUM_MMX alone
10:37 < rxr> god damn
10:39 < jeru> :/
10:44 < daja77> rxr: on real p-mmx hw or just in qemu?
10:45 < jeru> hi daja77 :)
10:45 < daja77> hi jeru
10:45 < rxr> runs fine in qemu and my athlon
10:45 < rxr> not on the real silicon Pentium-MMX
10:46 < daja77> ah ok
10:46 < daja77> i remember one of my builds that crashed on a celeron
10:50 < rxr> no crash - the kernel does not even come up ...
10:50 < rxr> not even decompressing ...
10:52 < daja77> oh that's really bad
10:52 < daja77> had a panic on this one ...
10:53 < daja77> but the bsds were panicking on this machine as well
10:53 < rxr> and it is only a .config issue
10:53 < rxr> some configs boot - some don't
10:53 < rxr> I still have to find the exact option that makes it freeze before decopression ...
10:55 < daja77> trial and erro :/
10:57 < daja77> http://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~chschu/stuff/go.png
10:57 < daja77> oops
11:18 < jeru> installing next T2 system @ work ... hehe :)
11:22 < valentin> moin
11:23 < jeru> moin valentin
11:24 < valentin> daja77: what is so special about that go game ?
11:24 < valentin> moin jeru
11:25 < daja77> just a a povray image rendered on the local university cluster
11:26 < valentin> this needs a cluster ? ok, i may be wrong, povray eats up much power for some kind of surfaces ...
11:27 * valentin hides...
11:27 < daja77> ^^
11:28 < valentin> how long does it take to render ?
11:28 < daja77> iirc 90min on 100 nodes
11:28 < valentin> oh
11:29 < valentin> s/render/raytrace
11:31 < rxr> yes - that should render quickly ...
11:32 < rxr> no need for so many nodes for such a simple model ...
11:32 < rxr> todays gfx chips do that in realtime ...
11:33 < daja77> the wood is no texture ...
11:34 < rxr> but?
11:34 < valentin> and with modern shaders rendering looks almost like raytracing
11:34 < rxr> with pixel shaders you do parametric stuff in realtime on recent boards, too ...
11:34 < valentin> i guess the wood is a parametric povray surface
11:35 < valentin> but it has no bumping whatsoever
11:35 < valentin> i think most time is shadow map calculation
11:36 < rxr> guess povray is just so slow that it needs soo much cpu cycles
11:37 < valentin> well, povray is so slow, because it does physical correct raytracing
11:37 < valentin> not just faked rendering like real time boards
11:38 < valentin> but as i told before, the shader techniques are so advanced today that surfaces look equaly realistic, and good approximated shadowmaps cannot be distinguished from realistic ones anyway
11:39 < rxr> there are even way faster tracers
11:39 < rxr> + the hardwar the uni saarbuecken or so demoed at the cebit
11:40 < jeru> is there any reason why we don't enable devfs at boot time on a default kernel build without any special kernel config?
11:41 < rxr> you use trunk, right?
11:41 < rxr> devfs is not enabled there any longer
11:41 < rxr> if you want stable use stable ,-)
11:41 < rxr> 2.2 is udev and class /dev only
11:41 < jeru> rxr: no it is a 2.1 build
11:41 < rxr> and /devfs for people that want to life without kernel updates soon
11:42 < rxr> hm - on 2.1 devfs should be on
11:42 < rxr> maybe mnemoc_ merged some change that was not intended for 2.1 ?
11:42 < jeru> rxr: I guess not ... because I had same problems before
11:43 < jeru> I mean ... devfs is enabled but not at boot time
11:43 < rxr> hm - strange
11:43 < rxr> it was in the past
11:43 < jeru> rxr: but this must be long time ago ;)
11:44 < rxr> hm - no, it always worked for me - including recently
11:44 < rxr> what target are you building >?
11:44 < jeru> rxr: you can guess ... it's mnemosyne because I like it for servers
11:45 < rxr> hm - and it does not mess with the kernel config ?
11:46 < jeru> rxr: It should build a standard fully modular kernel
11:49 < rxr> hm
11:50 < CIA-10> chris * r8753 /trunk/package/base/linux24/config-700.in: * fixed a small typo
12:31 < rxr> gotcha!
12:31 < rxr> it is one of these options preventing the kernel to boot on this pentium:
12:31 < rxr> -CONFIG_TOSHIBA=m
12:31 < rxr> -CONFIG_I8K=m
12:31 < rxr> -CONFIG_MICROCODE=m
12:31 < rxr> -CONFIG_X86_MSR=m
12:31 < rxr> -CONFIG_X86_CPUID=m
12:31 < rxr> +# CONFIG_TOSHIBA is not set
12:31 < rxr> +# CONFIG_I8K is not set
12:31 < rxr> +# CONFIG_MICROCODE is not set
12:31 < rxr> +# CONFIG_X86_MSR is not set
12:31 < rxr> +# CONFIG_X86_CPUID is not set
12:32 < rxr> wo would thought have this f*ckup ...
12:32 < rxr> and that as module, at least one of them must inject strange stuff in the early boot that is quite destructive ...
12:34 < rxr> -CONFIG_EDD=m
12:34 < rxr> +# CONFIG_EDD is not set
12:35 < rxr> ^- that it was ...
12:35 < rxr> damn ...
12:35 < rxr> took - me a full work day to track ...
12:36 < rxr> arch/i386/boot/edd.S:#if defined(CONFIG_EDD) || defined(CONFIG_EDD_MODULE)
12:38 < rxr> config EDD
12:38 < rxr> tristate "BIOS Enhanced Disk Drive calls determine boot disk (EXPERIMENTAL)"
12:38 < rxr> depends on EXPERIMENTAL
12:38 < rxr> depends on !IA64
12:38 < rxr> help
12:38 < rxr> Say Y or M here if you want to enable BIOS Enhanced Disk Drive
12:38 < rxr> Services real mode BIOS calls to determine which disk
12:38 < rxr> BIOS tries boot from. This information is then exported via sysfs.
12:38 < rxr> This option is experimental and is known to fail to boot on some
12:38 < rxr> obscure configurations. Most disk controller BIOS vendors do
12:38 < rxr> not yet implement this feature.
12:40 < rxr> so - let's see if the rebuild livecd kernel will boot on my good old crappy P-mmx ...
12:53 < valentin> damn - my xemacs just dissappeared !
12:54 < rxr> I use xemacs less and less ...
12:54 < rxr> they simple do not get it forward, no antialiasing, no utf8 spell checking, instable since ever ...
12:55 < valentin> yeah. no wonder - the developers a stuck in a tree of lisp-brackets...
12:55 < valentin> i still have no idea why of all languages they chose lisp
12:55 < rxr> if it would be a nicely sorted tree ,-) it looks more like some trash deposit ,-)
12:56 < rxr> so - in some secs warmed up lasagna from yesterday ,-)
12:57 < rxr> yeah - now booting - was CONFIG_EDD
13:06 < jeru> :)
13:07 < jeru> rxr: indeed, I had to flag dielibc as NOPARALLEL
13:10 < rxr> jeru: just commit that ,-)
13:10 < rxr> it is not the first time it failed with the currupted library ..
13:11 < jeru> ok I will commit it on trunk ... for now I had to change it on my local 2.1 tree
13:12 < CIA-10> rene * r8754 /trunk/architecture/x86/kernel-disable.lst:
13:12 < CIA-10> * disabled CONFIG_EDD, it hangs my Pentium-MMX on early boot and is
13:12 < rxr> == 12:41:08 =[5]=> Building base/linux26 [2.6.11.8 2.2.0-alpha].
13:12 < CIA-10> likely quite fragile and very unneeded
13:12 < rxr> -> Compiler Cache Hits while pkg build: 97.93% (4265 hits, 90 misses)
13:12 < CIA-10> chris * r8755 /trunk/package/base/dietlibc/dietlibc.desc: * added NOPARALLEL flag
13:13 < rxr> == 05/10/05 13:06:51 =[5]=> Finished building package linux26.
13:31 < CIA-10> rene * r8756 /branches/2.1/package/base/dietlibc/dietlibc.desc: * merged r8755 from trunk: marked dietlibc NOPARALLEL
13:32 < rxr> Schily k?ndigt "Nationalen Plan zum Schutz der Infrastrukturen" an
13:32 < rxr> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/59427
13:32 < rxr> Es gelte "neue Strategien zur Bek?mpfung von Angriffen von Hackern und Viren" zu entwickeln
13:33 < CIA-10> rene * r8757 /branches/2.1/architecture/x86/kernel-disable.lst: * merged r8754 from trunk: disabled CONFIG_EDD, quite fragile and unneeded
13:35 < jeru> rxr: I guess, it's necessary to have full access to private bank accounts to prevent hacking attacks
13:35 < rxr> of course ...
13:36 < rxr> and a helicopter per square km to uncover them quickly
13:37 < jeru> rxr: but anyway, it's a wise decission regarding the crappy security infrastructure of some partially state owned telecommunication companies ;)
13:38 < jeru> oh I forgot some transportation companies too
13:42 < CIA-10> rene * r8758 /trunk/package/network/tsclient/tsclient.desc: * updated tsclient (0.132 -> 0.140)
13:43 < rxr> damn - my LiveCD is way faster booting than the last knoppix I have here
13:44 < rxr> cool - the latest incarnation boots straight into working X on my S3 Virge Pentium MMX @233, too
13:45 < rxr> hm - just not that rocking fast *
13:45 < rxr> gr*
13:46 < rxr> 96MB of RAM are a bit less to cache enough from the CD ...
13:46 < rxr> but rocking anyway
13:46 < rxr> and when I add code to free the RAM of the tmpfs holding the boot code ... ;-)
13:47 < rxr> valentin: did we wanted to meet today ?
13:47 < valentin> we have a "schwangerschaftsvorbereitungskurs" in the evening
13:52 < rxr> so, no? or thereafter ?
13:56 < valentin> thereafter would be possible, but late
14:01 < rxr> hm
14:03 < rxr> have you some minutes for a phone call ?
14:04 < valentin> ok
14:04 < valentin> i call you
14:36 < jeru> rxr: I will rename mysql-perl -> perl-dbd-mysql
14:37 < rxr> looks good
14:37 < jeru> just wanted to ask the maintainer ;p
14:37 < rxr> oh - place you in it ,-) I think I rarely touched it ,-)
14:39 < jeru> rxr: no way :D
14:39 < rxr> too bad :-( - why not ?
14:40 < jeru> okok ... I just need it for a special installation now anyway but I'll place myself as maintainer
14:41 < jeru> don't want to make our cto cry
14:41 < jeru> :)
14:42 < jeru> rxr: should I remove the cache file ?
14:43 < rxr> which cache files ?
14:44 < jeru> mysql-perl.cache
14:45 < jeru> or can I savely rename it ?
14:50 < rxr> sure rename it ,-)
14:51 < rxr> it would be best to sed over all the other .cache files to translate to the new name in them
14:58 < CIA-10> chris * r8759 /trunk/package/perl/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
14:58 < CIA-10> * renamed mysql-perl -> perl-dbd-mysql
14:58 < CIA-10> * updated perl-dbd-mysql (2.9004 -> 2.9006)
14:59 < jeru> rxr: can you merge perl-dbd-mysql to 2.1 please ?
15:01 < jeru> oh forgot to log the [M] change ...
15:06 < rxr> jeru: if mnemoc_ will not slap me for it ...
15:09 < jeru> rxr: I'll defend you
15:23 < rxr> no package does depend on mysql-perl ?
15:24 < jeru> as far as I greped through the cache files ... nope ...
15:24 < CIA-10> rene * r8760 /branches/2.1/package/perl/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
15:24 < CIA-10> * merged r8759 from trunk: renamed mysql-perl -> perl-dbd-mysql and
15:24 < CIA-10> updated perl-dbd-mysql (2.9004 -> 2.9006)
15:24 < jeru> rxr: thx :)
15:27 -!- sparc-kly|U5 [~mubex@66-50-123-218.prtc.net] has joined #t2
15:28 < CIA-10> chris * r8761 /trunk/package/perl/perl-authen-sasl/perl-authen-sasl.desc: * updated perl-authen-sasl (2.08 -> 2.09)
15:33 < CIA-10> chris * r8762 /trunk/package/perl/perl-convert-asn1/perl-convert-asn1.desc: * updated perl-convert-asn1 (0.18 -> 0.19)
15:34 -!- tilix [~root@212.116.139.141] has joined #t2
15:34 < sparc-kly|U5> hi ppl
15:40 < valentin> hi sparc-kly|U5
15:40 < CIA-10> chris * r8763 /trunk/package/perl/perl-uri/perl-uri.desc: * updated perl-uri (1.30 -> 1.35)
15:40 < jeru> hi sparc-kly|U5
15:40 < jeru> madness ... mostly all perl stuff is so outdated
15:42 < jeru> haha ... all WinXP workstations are crashed due to lightning :)
15:42 < tilix> is it from the news?
15:43 < jeru> tilix: nope ... at my work :)
15:43 < valentin> jeru: other systems would crash too ...
15:44 < jeru> valentin.... I know ... but it was quite funny because I'm the outlaw here :)
15:44 < jeru> using Linux every minute
15:44 < valentin> :)
15:45 < jeru> everyday I hear ... I should use a real OS
15:45 < valentin> wotan struck down those win boxes with his thunder
15:45 < valentin> OS == offline system ?
15:45 < jeru> :D
15:45 < tilix> will livecd-ng (2.2) have an installer? or only the desktop target?
15:45 < rxr> it will have an installer
15:46 < rxr> maybe I even abondone desktop in favour of desktop live cd with good installer
15:51 -!- rxr_ [~rene@e178151160.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
15:51 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | 2.1.0-beta4 RELEASED | The next generation of System Development Environments (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/
15:51 -!- Topic set by menomc [] [Sat Apr 16 00:33:34 2005]
15:51 [Users #t2]
15:51 [ _Ragnar__] [ jeru ] [ nzg ] [ sparc-kly ] [ valentin]
15:51 [ CIA-10 ] [ jsaw ] [ rxr ] [ sparc-kly|U5]
15:51 [ daja77 ] [ mnemoc_] [ rxr_] [ tilix ]
15:51 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
15:51 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
15:51 -!- [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
15:51 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 10 secs
15:52 < rxr_> re
15:52 < rxr_> what did I miss @ my daily reconnect ?
15:54 < CIA-10> chris * r8764 /trunk/package/perl/perl-net-dns/perl-net-dns.desc: * updated perl-net-dns (0.47 -> 0.48)
15:54 < CIA-10> chris * r8765 /trunk/package/perl/perl-net-ldap/perl-net-ldap.desc: * updated perl-net-ldap (0.32 -> 0.33)
15:55 -!- rxr [~rene@e178162189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
15:56 < tilix> you missed my question: how the installer will be? like knoppix-installer (from kde) or like Linspire (boot option)?
15:57 < jeru> rxr_: a lightning forced the whole WinXP workstations in our IT-Department to crash
15:57 < rxr_> tilix: I think from within the running system - first test - if all works well click to install
15:58 < tilix> good
15:58 < rxr_> at least that is what I want and we implement right now
16:03 < mnemoc_> moin
16:03 < jeru> moin don mnemoc_
16:03 < valentin> moin don mnemoc_
16:04 < mnemoc_> hi jeru, valentin, rxr_, tilix, CIA-10
16:04 < rxr_> hi mnemoc_
16:04 -!- mnemoc_ is now known as mnemoc
16:04 < tilix> hi
16:05 < mnemoc> tilix: i saw a page in russian about T2 :)
16:05 -!- You're now known as rxr
16:05 < jeru> mnemoc: oh! link ?
16:06 < mnemoc> tilix.org iirc
16:06 < tilix> I`m from Bulgaria, but I can`t speak russian.
16:06 < mnemoc> oh
16:06 < tilix> so it must be in bulgarian
16:06 < tilix> :)
16:06 < mnemoc> same chars?
16:06 < jeru> tilix: but as far as I know bulgarian isn't "far away" from russian
16:07 < jeru> tilix: my brother is speaking bulgarian ;)
16:07 < mnemoc> i guess that's why babelfish couldn't translate it :)
16:07 < tilix> yeah. It isn`t far away
16:08 < tilix> yep. no bulgarian-english translators
16:08 < mnemoc> but you removed it anyway :(
16:08 < mnemoc> http://www.tilix.org/ <--- looks like russian :p
16:09 < tilix> Could you give me a google cache of the link? I`m not the only one who writes to tilix.org
16:10 < mnemoc> http://geeklog.tilix.org/staticpages/index.php?page=t2project
16:11 < tilix> it`s mine. I forgot it :) here again: http://rodonika.tilix.org/t2project It says that version 2.0 of my Linux distribution will be based on T2.
16:12 < mnemoc> :D
16:12 < mnemoc> great choice :)
16:12 < tilix> And I wrote an introduction to T2 here: http://www.linux-bg.org/cgi-bin/y/index.pl?page=article&id=devs&key=369690951
16:13 < tilix> It`s the biggest Bulgarian online magazine for Linux and Open Source
16:14 < rxr> tilix: cool!
16:17 < mnemoc> jeru: we will have to add bulgarian to our vaporsite^Wwebsite
16:17 < rxr> apropos website ...
16:18 < jeru> mnemoc: yeah ... indeed I can do that.
16:18 < rxr> I just write the next new page in the old svn hosted www. site ...
16:18 < jeru> .oO( I should clone myself )o
16:19 < valentin> doc.trolltech.com down for some while now :(
16:19 < mnemoc> jeru: yes, do it
16:20 < mnemoc> svn: REPORT of '/t2/!svn/bc/8765/trunk/package/x11/nvidia': Could not read chunk size: connection timed out. (http://svn.exactcode.de)
16:20 < rxr> ?
16:21 < jeru> mnemoc: it would be a nice "test bed" for enabling bulgarian on T2 www2 ... you know I installed the website for the "German-Bulgarian-Forum" here in berlin ... ;)
16:21 < mnemoc> :D
16:22 < jeru> but for now they don't have a bulgarian translation ... but I guess they want have it some day ...
16:23 < tilix> If you talk about Plone - yes, it has.
16:23 < jeru> tilix: I know ... that the plone UI is translated ;)
16:23 < jeru> but the content
16:24 < tilix> i could translate it when it`s possible
16:24 < mnemoc> we are not good writing... you would never be flooded with content :p
16:24 < jeru> tilix: I guess ... you mean the upcoming T2 website ;)
16:25 < tilix> yes
16:27 < jeru> postgersql master mnemoc: is postgresql faster than mysql ?
16:29 < mnemoc> no
16:29 < mnemoc> try to catch a 7 years kid
16:29 < jeru> uhm?
16:30 < mnemoc> they run as hell
16:30 < mnemoc> but they can't do anything usefull
16:30 < rxr> lol
16:30 < jeru> mnemoc: that's your point of view ... ;p
16:30 < mnemoc> :)
16:31 < mnemoc> s/usefull/productive/
16:31 < rxr> so when it is 18 it will be more mature *g* ?
16:31 < mnemoc> :D
16:31 < mnemoc> mysql wont grow ;)
16:32 < jeru> mnemoc: but papa mnemoc will have other problems :)
16:32 < mnemoc> i'll have troubles when my daughters get 12
16:33 < mnemoc> jeru: but considering you can have better queries with pg, due to the reduction of overhead you can have a faster service running pg than mysql
16:38 < jeru> mnemoc: I just asked because in the recent "Linux-Magazin" article about bacula they wrote that they had problems using mysql
16:39 < jeru> mnemoc: but thanks for your explanation :)
16:39 < mnemoc> i don't know what trouble has bacula, but the lack of nested queries makes mysql almost unusable to me
16:40 < jeru> mnemoc: ic
16:41 < jeru> mnemoc: btw, already rebuilded postgresql on a syne target and I'm quite happy that the heimdal related warnings are gone now
16:42 < mnemoc> are you using 2.1/heimdal ?
16:45 < jeru> mnemoc: yes
16:46 < mnemoc> great
16:46 < jeru> mnemoc: :D
16:46 < jeru> mnemoc: have you merged my heimdal update from yesterday ?
16:47 < mnemoc> nope
16:47 < mnemoc> i can't test heimdal on my referece :p
16:47 < mnemoc> what revs should i merge?
16:48 < sparc-kly|U5> hi mnemoc
16:50 < mnemoc> hi sparc-kly|U5
16:50 < CIA-10> amery * r8766 /branches/2.1/package/mail/qmail/qmail.desc: * merged 8694 from trunk: updated qmail-ldap patch (20041201 -> 20050401a)
16:58 < valentin> upcomming papa valentin has to leave for the geburtsvorbereitungskurs
16:58 < valentin> cu
16:58 < mnemoc> geburtsvorbereitungskurs?
17:01 < rxr> mnemoc: pre birth practicing stuff ...
17:02 < mnemoc> aha
17:03 < mnemoc> valentin will learn to push and breathe?
17:05 < rxr> yes
17:05 < rxr> and his girl even more or so ..
17:05 < rxr> you must know - you are a dady ... ,-)
17:06 < mnemoc> i know to change diapers and do bottles :)
17:08 < rxr> hehe
17:08 < rxr> no pre birth curses over in chile ?
17:08 < mnemoc> only on TV
17:09 < mnemoc> doctors here prefer /cesarea/
17:09 < mnemoc> so they can assist more births per day
17:23 < sparc-kly|U5> anyone here have Web hosting company ?
17:23 < rxr> announcement sent
17:23 < mnemoc> sparc-kly: mike has one
17:24 < sparc-kly|U5> mike is here ?
17:25 < mnemoc> sparc-kly|U5: mike@hsol.net
17:25 < mnemoc> sparc-kly|U5: miguel bolaños, from costa rica
17:25 < sparc-kly|U5> thanks
17:26 < sparc-kly|U5> i need unix hosting .
17:30 < rxr> mnemoc: comments to the announcement ?
17:30 < rxr> or live/ site ?
17:31 < tilix> great
17:31 < tilix> this livecd rocks
17:31 < rxr> did you test it ?
17:32 < tilix> no, reading the description I know it rocks. I can`t test it because my connection with this server is ~ 4 kb per second
17:32 < tilix> I`ll find another way to get it
17:33 < rxr> I know need to work on the udev configuration - so all the audio and video stuff is accessible after booting up ..
17:34 < rxr> I think it even boots significantly faster than Knoppix
17:34 < tilix> i`m sure. Knoppix has some very old scripts
17:42 < rxr> http://www.golem.de/0505/37971.html
17:43 < rxr> ^- lol - intel noticed their P4 stuff sucks majorly ,-)
17:44 < jeru> rxr: what was the download URL for the livecd ? :)
17:44 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/live/
17:44 < rxr> tells you ,-)
17:44 < jeru> ah :)
17:44 < mnemoc> rxr: i like it
17:45 < rxr> mnemoc: the text or the CD as in testing ?
17:46 < rxr> jeru: if you wanna download I could release a new version, that includes the correct kernel modules and thus allows the use of more modules ,-)
17:46 < jeru> yep ... please ... I still @ work on a E1 line :)
17:47 < jeru> and my DSL modem at home said "good bye" yesterday :/
17:48 < rxr> ok - in 15 min it can be online
17:48 < jeru> rxr: ok ... :)
17:49 < mnemoc> rxr: the text
17:50 < jeru> rxr: but you have a small typo in your text
17:50 < mnemoc> rxr: why r3 93M and r_2_ 520M?
17:50 < jeru> rxr: "compuer"
17:51 < rxr> I just copy r3 ...
17:51 < rxr> I know - I should use an incomming ...
17:52 < rxr> jeru: thanks fixed
17:52 < jeru> rxr: no problem :)
17:54 < mnemoc> i hope this new nvidia driver don't kill my laptop... brb
17:55 < jeru> rxr: please give me a short note if I can start the download :)
17:55 < rxr> yep
17:57 < jeru> I guess my small friend at home is "drumming" yet :)
17:58 < mnemoc> worked
17:58 < jeru> mnemoc: hehe :)
17:58 < jeru> hmmm ... mysql will not start up
17:58 < mnemoc> no more nasty preemptive/nvidia errors
17:58 < rxr> cool!
17:59 < CIA-10> amery * r8767 /branches/2.1/package/x11/nvidia/ (5 files): * updated nvidia (1.0-6629 -> 1.0-7174)
18:01 < rxr> so - maybe 2min left ...
18:01 < jeru> /var/opt/mysql isn't created during install
18:02 < mnemoc> jeru: if it's empty it might get removed
18:02 < mnemoc> jeru: touch something on postmake
18:02 < CIA-10> amery * r8768 /trunk/package/x11/nvidia/ (5 files): * merged 8767 from 2.1: updated nvidia (1.0-6629 -> 1.0-7174)
18:02 < jeru> mnemoc: ok
18:03 < mnemoc> jeru: but you can remove it from the 'to-check-and-remove-however-its-called' list
18:05 < mnemoc> rxr: can we do something to install nvidia's gfx stuff on xorg?
18:05 < rxr> the GL libs ...
18:05 < rxr> hm - with some alternative system ,-)
18:07 < jeru> mnemoc: what list ?
18:07 < rxr> hm - I hope the squash did not change too much
18:08 < rxr> the rsync is progressing so slow - damn
18:08 < rxr> jeru: hm - or start the downloda
18:09 < rxr> you can rsync it later one anyway ,-)
18:09 < rxr> seems to take more time than I tought it would
18:12 < jeru> rxr: the one in incomming ?
18:14 < mnemoc> jeru: rmemptydir at scripts/functions
18:14 < mnemoc> jeru: you can var_remove on your .conf
18:14 < rxr> jeru: no r2 ,-)
18:15 < rxr> 23412886 4% 60.82kB/s
18:15 < rxr> ^- ah!
18:15 < rxr> speeding up now
18:15 < rxr> maybe -r3 is there soon now
18:15 < rxr> but better -2 for now - you could rsync at home then or so ...
18:15 < rxr> 82127244 15% 13.60MB/s
18:15 < rxr> hm
18:16 < rxr> 229501324 42% 14.38MB/s
18:16 < rxr> 298609009 54% 12.13MB/s
18:24 < jeru> rxr: I've no connection @ home today because my DSL modem has "blown up" :/
18:33 < rxr> oh
18:33 < rxr> hm - I have some rsync problem here ..
18:33 < rxr> strange ..
18:34 < rxr> btw. if you need a modem - I would have one to spare ...
18:34 < rxr> what was the command to switch the X layout ?
18:35 < jeru> rxr: thanks ... hopefully I'll get a new one tomorrow ... if not I'll come back to your offer :)
18:35 < jeru> anyway ... I should visit you while I'm living just a few stations away
18:36 < rxr> hehe - yeah - we should do so soon ...
18:36 < rxr> if you feel to we could tomorrow when valentin will also come over after work
18:39 < tilix> bye
18:40 < rxr> cu tilix
18:40 -!- tilix [~root@212.116.139.141] has left #t2 []
18:43 < jeru> rxr: tomorrow sounds nice ... at what time ?
18:43 < CIA-10> amery * r8769 /branches/2.1/package/network/acx100/ (acx100.desc linux-2.6.11.patch postlinux.conf): * merged 8747, 8748 from trunk: updated acx100 (0.2.0pre8-45 -> 0.2.0pre8-56) and fixed to really install the modules
18:48 < rxr> do not know yet, maybe 18 or 19 o'clock
18:50 < CIA-10> amery * r8770 /branches/2.1/package/multimedia/vdr/ (osdteletext-0.4.1-vdr-1.3.21.diff vdr.desc): * merged r8677 from trunk: update vdr plugin osdteletext (0.4.1 -> 0.5.0)
18:51 < CIA-10> amery * r8771 /branches/2.1/package/network/libidn/libidn.desc: * merged r8736 from trunk: updated libidn (0.5.15 -> 0.5.16)
18:52 < jeru> rxr: ok ... I guess we'll see us on #t2 tomorrow. So we can arrange the exact time later :=
18:52 < jeru> :)
18:55 < CIA-10> amery * r8772 /branches/2.1/package/network/rdesktop/rdesktop.desc: * merge r8735 from trunk: updated rdesktop (1.4.0 -> 1.4.1)
18:58 < rxr> jeru: yep
18:59 < CIA-10> amery * r8773 /branches/2.1/package/java/ (4 files in 4 dirs): * merged r8662 from trunk: removed shared profile.d/j{re,dk}
19:03 < CIA-10> amery * r8774 /branches/2.1/package/scientific/scilab/ (configure-fix.patch scilab.desc): * merged r8554 from trunk: updated scilab (2.7 -> 3.0)
19:03 < mnemoc> jsaw: do you use 'root'?
19:05 < CIA-10> amery * r8775 /branches/2.1/target/bootdisk/kernel.conf.sh: * merged r8711 from trunk: converted the bootdisk/kernel.conf.sh to use sed -i
19:06 < CIA-10> amery * r8776 /branches/2.1/package/network/amule/ (amule.cache amule.desc): * merged r8648 from trunk: updated amule (2.0.0rc8 -> 2.0.0)
19:08 * rxr shortly away
19:11 < _Ragnar__> moin
19:12 < mnemoc> hi _Ragnar__
19:12 < mnemoc> _Ragnar__: is uclibc stuff working?
19:13 < _Ragnar__> hmm I should do a new build with that
19:13 < jeru> hi _Ragnar__ :)
19:15 < mnemoc> _Ragnar__: branches/2.1 please ;)
19:15 < _Ragnar__> O_O
19:16 < _Ragnar__> not trunk?
19:16 < mnemoc> no no, 2.1 :)
19:18 < _Ragnar__> oh
19:19 < _Ragnar__> svn co http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/branches/2.1 ?
19:21 < mnemoc> svn switch is faster but yes
19:25 < _Ragnar__> okay starting build
19:38 < mnemoc> :D
19:38 < mnemoc> thanks a lot
19:50 < CIA-10> amery * r8777 /trunk/target/mnemosyne/pkg_php.conf: * changed mnemosyne/php to use AddHandler instead of AddType
20:03 < mnemoc> rxr: what should i do with udev on 2.1? merge, keep or drop?
20:05 < rxr> re
20:06 < rxr> mnemoc: hm - if you feel to update it ...
20:06 < rxr> you might also svn rm hotplug and udev in 2.1 - I guess noone is using it anyway ...
20:07 < mnemoc> will you rm modutils and linux24 on trunk?
20:08 < rxr> hm - I think not ... ,-)
20:08 < rxr> or should I ?
20:08 < mnemoc> will you support 2.4? ;)
20:09 < rxr> well - I could if needed
20:09 < rxr> also of course just dropping support would mean less work ...
20:09 < rxr> but in theory one could use 2.4 with 2.2 ...
20:09 < mnemoc> even with udev-centric design?
20:09 < rxr> you have screamed loudest IIRC for good 2.4 support, did this change ?
20:10 < rxr> it is not udev centric - you can be fully modular with 2.4, too
20:10 < rxr> just hal / dbus is not functional then
20:10 < mnemoc> we will have to drop devfs on 2.2, what may that mean on lx24.... back to MAKEDEV?
20:10 < rxr> yep ,-)
20:10 < rxr> or use devfs for it ... ,-)
20:10 < mnemoc> uhm
20:10 * rxr lunch
20:11 < mnemoc> that was my doubt.... udev/devfs conhexisting on 2.2
20:12 < _Ragnar__> O_O can't you config udev to act just like devfs?
20:13 < mnemoc> does rene want a udev looking as devfs on 2.2?
20:16 < mnemoc> _Ragnar__: do you think i should keep udev on 2.1?
20:16 < mnemoc> _Ragnar__: 2.1 will stop updating lx 2.6 when they drop devfs
20:16 < _Ragnar__> ah okay
20:17 < mnemoc> .oO
20:17 < _Ragnar__> well when will they drop it? maybe 2.1 is obsolete by then?:)
20:19 < _Ragnar__> mnemoc: btw ... the 2.1 build ... I usually build with -pam ... does that matter?
20:20 < mnemoc> _Ragnar__: build as you wish and report :)
20:22 < _Ragnar__> mnemoc: k
20:24 < mnemoc> _Ragnar__: as a SDE we have to try to support every consistent target :)
20:24 < _Ragnar__> ;D
20:31 < CIA-10> amery * r8778 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnome-volume-manager/hal50.patch: * merged r8720 from 2.1: updated gnome-volume-manager (1.2.0 -> 1.2.1) and fixed to build against hal 0.5.0
20:46 < rxr> re
20:47 < rxr> mnemoc: of course I want devfs style names with udev by default
20:47 < rxr> they are cool ...
20:47 < _Ragnar__> :) good
20:47 < mnemoc> rxr: great
20:47 < rxr> who on earth would prefer hd?? for ide/ or sd/ vs sr/ for scsi and so on ...
20:48 < _Ragnar__> yea
20:48 < rxr> that was the biggest barrier when you come to linux
20:48 < rxr> "what the hell is this /dev/ mess about" ...
20:48 < _Ragnar__> :D
20:48 < rxr> s/linux/linux + uni*x style systems/
20:49 < mnemoc> rxr: so t2 2.2+ will _still_ looking as devfs
20:49 < rxr> of course ...
20:49 < rxr> with the old style names for wide compatibility with existing apps
20:49 < mnemoc> great
20:50 < rxr> (as we [mostly] had with devfs, too)
20:50 < _Ragnar__> well, the /dev/hd[abcd...] stuff should just go and be buried;)
20:51 < mnemoc> rxr: i saw loooot of ugly crap on livecd's /dev ... that why i got confused
20:52 < rxr> _Ragnar__: you can configure your udev this way ...
20:52 < rxr> mnemoc: the configh right now does not yet include all the devs compat needed
20:52 < rxr> I just was happy when I soldered all together - the fine tuning will come now ...
20:53 < rxr> I also should focus to get all the creation and static configs into trunk - so that other can help on it and I can not accidently rm -rf them ... ,-)
20:55 < _Ragnar__> yea
20:56 < mnemoc> :)
21:04 < jeru> ok ... enough otrs playing for today ... moving home ... cu tomorrow :)
21:05 < mnemoc> cu jeru
21:05 < jeru> I guess critter will kill me :)
21:05 < jeru> cu mnemoc
21:05 -!- jeru [~jeru@mail.oberlinhaus.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:30 < rxr> mnemoc: I'll add the xautoconfig to the xorg package, right?
21:30 < rxr> can be of general use to ad-hoc auto-config X ... ,-)
21:33 < rxr> valentin: http://www.t2-project.org/live/
21:33 < rxr> valentin: if you might like to review what I wrote ... - you are listed as primary developer ... so ,-)
22:26 < rxr> n8 all
22:48 < valentin> re
22:48 < valentin> night rxr
22:49 < valentin> mnemoc: is that the truth with the cesarians in chile ?
22:53 < mnemoc> valentin: yes
22:54 < mnemoc> rxr: you tell me what package you thing should go to 2.1, i test and merge
22:55 < valentin> some guy here in germany drowned his complete pc in salad oil
22:55 < valentin> for passive cooling
22:55 < valentin> and he claims it works fine
22:56 < valentin> but i guess the harddrives have to be stored externaly
22:56 < valentin> http://tagesschau.de/bildstrecken/0,1203,OID4330472_IMG4330510_HID4330510_POS0_MTB1_NAV_BAB,00.html
22:57 < valentin> mnemoc: we learn breathe and push :)
22:58 < mnemoc> :)
23:05 < valentin> and many facts about the birth process
23:06 < valentin> your two childs game with the caesarean, too ?
23:09 < mnemoc> only the first
23:10 < mnemoc> my second girl born on a university clinic, with professors and students
23:10 < mnemoc> so they can cut and run :)
23:11 < mnemoc> but on hospitals they have few doctors and lot of pacients
23:12 < valentin> :/
23:12 < mnemoc> and on clinics they are paid per-sirgury
23:13 < valentin> the more babys the more money
23:13 < mnemoc> yep
23:13 < valentin> hope they do not have to cut when our child comes.
23:13 < valentin> bbl
23:14 < mnemoc> 20 years ago caesareans were _vertical_
23:14 < mnemoc> just because it's easier for the doctor
23:27 -!- sparc-kly [~sunultra@65-23-193-208.prtc.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:29 -!- CIA-10 [~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx] has quit []
23:33 -!- CIA-10 [~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx] has joined #t2
23:35 < rxr> re
23:45 < rxr> cool - when you select one month instead of the default 6 month T2 is in the rank at http://distrowatch.com !
23:46 < rxr> with 6 month rock is on place 89 - with 1 month t2 is on rank 86!
23:51 < mnemoc> :D
23:52 < mnemoc> .oO( i don't see T2 on the list )o
23:53 < rxr> as I wrote with the 6 month avg as default not ,-)
23:53 < rxr> but we are gaining ,-)
23:53 < rxr> and that is cool - after all T2 is young ,-)
23:53 < rxr> r3 is out have fun ,-)
23:54 < mnemoc> aha!
23:54 < mnemoc> 1 month :p
23:54 < mnemoc> i don't know to read
23:56 < rxr> we need more releases ,-)
23:56 < mnemoc> we must have cool web site and _rc1!!_ out before you release the final livecd
23:56 < mnemoc> s/must/shall/
23:56 < rxr> hehehe ,-)
23:57 < rxr> sorry - but the final livecd is paid work (more or less) - thus aside that we need it anyway - has quite some priority ,-)
23:57 < mnemoc> rxr: of course, and i'm really happy
23:58 < mnemoc> rxr: but we can't loose that PR
23:58 < rxr> nope - we need to get 2.1 done
23:59 < rxr> mnemoc: had you ever problems /dev not mounting automatically?
23:59 < rxr> jeru had such problems today ... ?
23:59 < mnemoc> uhm
23:59 < mnemoc> never
23:59 * rxr neither
--- Log closed Wed May 11 00:00:11 2005