--- Log opened Thu Jul 22 00:00:14 2010 00:08 -!- Asmundr [~jamie@h113.143.102.166.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #t2 01:22 -!- digitaloktay [~win7@unaffiliated/digitaloktay] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44 -!- mjungwirth [~mjungwirt@213.174.234.68] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 08:46 -!- mjungwirth [~mjungwirt@213.174.234.68] has joined #t2 09:33 < CIA-29> aldas * r36877 /trunk/package/php/php/php.desc: * updated php (5.3.2 -> 5.3.3) 09:33 < CIA-29> aldas * r36878 /trunk/package/develop/git/git.desc: * updated git (1.7.1.1 -> 1.7.2) 10:28 < CIA-29> rene * r36879 /trunk/package/develop/gambas/gambas.desc: * updated gambas (1.0.19 -> 2.18.0) 10:32 < CIA-29> rene * r36881 /trunk/package/contrib/beep/beep.cache: * added beep.cache 10:41 < CIA-29> rene * r36880 /trunk/package/contrib/beep/beep.desc: * updated beep (0.0.1 -> 1.3) 11:06 < CIA-29> rene * r36882 /trunk/package/network/tcpdump/ (tcpdump.conf tcpdump.desc): 11:06 < CIA-29> Mario Jungwirth : 11:06 < CIA-29> * improved tcpdump to cross compile 11:10 < CIA-29> rene * r36883 /trunk/package/base/htop/ (configure.patch.cross htop.conf htop.desc): 11:10 < CIA-29> Mario Jungwirth : 11:10 < CIA-29> * improved htop to cross compile 11:13 < CIA-29> rene * r36884 /trunk/package/x86/syslinux/syslinux.desc: * updated syslinux (4.01 -> 4.02) 11:13 < CIA-29> rene * r36885 /trunk/package/database/sqlite/sqlite.desc: * updated sqlite (3.6.23.1 -> 3.7.0) 11:33 -!- digitaloktay [~win7@dslb-084-056-245-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #t2 11:33 -!- digitaloktay [~win7@dslb-084-056-245-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:33 -!- digitaloktay [~win7@unaffiliated/digitaloktay] has joined #t2 11:38 -!- arete74 [~arete@143.225.107.252] has joined #t2 12:04 < CIA-29> rene * r36886 /trunk/package/editors/texmacs/texmacs.desc: * updated texmacs (1.0.7.3 -> 1.0.7.5) 12:12 -!- uid9909 [~uid9099@2001:470:9a41:107:4cda:5044:257c:e722] has joined #t2 12:24 [Users #t2] 12:24 [@ChanServ] [ CIA-29 ] [ koan ] [ rxr ] [ TobiX ] 12:24 [ arete74 ] [ digitaloktay] [ mjungwirth] [ Stealth] [ uid9909] 12:24 [ Asmundr ] [ dileks ] [ mtr ] [ T-One ] [ zod ] 12:24 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal] 12:44 * rxr to lunch - cu 12:54 -!- arete74 [~arete@143.225.107.252] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:37 -!- rogermason [~user@CPE001b639d4751-CM0011aea11450.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #t2 13:39 < rogermason> I'm working through Emerging the dependencies to get emacs installed. glitz fails for lack of GL/gl.h. Is that provided by mesa? Thanks. 14:07 -!- uid9909 [~uid9099@2001:470:9a41:107:4cda:5044:257c:e722] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.7/20100713130626]] 15:06 < koan> curious, the Wikipedia notability nazis have deleted the page about T2 SDE: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/T2_SDE 15:10 < rxr> oh my 15:11 < rxr> sucks 15:14 < koan> the german wikipedia moderators are more sane 15:39 < koan> rxr: the build intro page still calls 6.0 the "latest" release: http://t2-project.org/documentation/buildintro.html 15:40 < koan> (there may be other outdated pages too) 15:42 < rxr> updated 15:45 < koan> maybe grep for "6.0" and "7.0" through the website's sources :-) 15:45 < rxr> tried, pretty much noise 15:51 < rxr> if you have questinos jsut ask :-) 15:53 < koan> yup, I'm just skimming through the website now to build the skeleton of the article 15:55 < koan> hm I hadn't seen the whitepaper before 16:00 < rogermason> Got past the GL issue. Now atk won't build: CDPATH="${ZSH_VERSION+.}:" && cd . && /bin/sh /root/t2-8.0/src.atk.SDE-CONFIG.20100722.112349.1679.gem/atk-1.30.0/missing --run aclocal-1.11 $ 16:00 < rogermason> aclocal-1.11: couldn't open directory `//share/aclocal': No such file or directory 16:00 < rogermason> make: *** [aclocal.m4] Error 1 16:00 < rogermason> Due to previous errors, no 9-atk.log file! 16:00 < rogermason> 16:01 < rxr> which GL issue ? 16:04 < rogermason> I'm working through Emerging the dependencies to get emacs 16:04 < rogermason> installed. glitz fails for lack of GL/gl.h. Is that provided by 16:04 < rogermason> mesa? Thanks. 16:05 < rogermason> But I built mesa and that fixed the "issue". 16:37 -!- mjungwirth2 [~mjungwirt@213.174.252.112] has joined #t2 16:54 < koan> rxr: is the long-term goal of support for other open source kernels still being pursued? 16:55 < rxr> yes, but I'm not yet sure which one to use 16:55 < rxr> i'm not fully happy with either of them 16:55 < rxr> minix is too lagging 16:55 < rxr> draonfly the better one so far 16:55 < koan> I remember you looked at DragonFly BSD yes 16:55 < rxr> but I started with mingw / win32 support :-) 16:56 < koan> and how difficult is it to port T2 to another kernel? which pieces have to be changed? 16:56 < rxr> I'm actually thinking about re-using L4 bits and writing my own multi-server kernel as a hobby 16:57 < rxr> well, beside patching some of the packages (pkgsrc like) to build with the other kernel at all, it is not so difficult 16:57 < rxr> mostly only the kernel sources need to be extracted from their archives (most are not as nicely tarball packaged as linux, but just resist in their SVN, etc. tree) 16:57 < rxr> and with the kernel the c library and maybe some system control tools 16:57 < rxr> it's actually not sooo much work 16:57 < rxr> even beginners could do so 16:58 < rxr> it's mostly that I personally need something more micr-kernel (read stable) than Linux, and I have not yet pinpointed the best solution, yet 16:58 < koan> hm ok, and I guess they can look at how the mingw/win32 port was done for a start? 16:59 < rxr> yes, though mingw does not come with a kernel, ... but the basics are the same 16:59 < rxr> especially wheter the gcc release tarball can produce working executables for said platform it's an easy game, just package the system header and libc and you're already halfway there 17:00 < rxr> e.g. most normal packages should already build, ... and then just collecting all their external kernel sources into a nice kernel packages, ... 17:01 < koan> well, this idea of one userland (T2) with different choices of kernel has always intrigued me, so I really hope I still see it happening once :-) 17:01 < rxr> well, for most part t2 is like those pkgsrc trees, ... 17:01 < rxr> ports collection 17:02 < rxr> btw. the Haiku folks even considered using T2^W ROCK Linux back in their early days when they still named itself openbsd 17:02 < koan> interesting 17:03 < koan> why did they decide to not do it? 17:06 < digitaloktay> yeah 17:06 < digitaloktay> http://omploader.org/vNTBlMA 17:09 < rxr> guess while writing their kernel they found it comfortable to glue it together was they went 17:10 -!- T-One [~T-One@194.183.141.238] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:11 < rogermason> Does anyone have any idea why atk cannot find aclocal-1.11? aclocal-1.11: couldn't open directory `//share/aclocal': aclocal-1.11 is certainly present in /usr/share. This is on a machine installed with 8.0, from a downloaded iso. Thanks. 17:38 < rxr> hm 18:49 < rxr> damn, I need a way more performance storage architecture here 18:51 < koan> uhm the minimal ISO image doesn't contain svn? how can I install packages then? 18:51 < rxr> it should contain svn 18:51 < rxr> which image? x86_64? 18:52 < koan> what's the path? 18:52 < koan> yes 18:52 < rxr> err, on my ppc64 I just type on it's /usr/bin/svn 18:52 < koan> nope, it isn't here 18:52 < rxr> I think I tested a partial t2 rebuild from svn checkout in both x86 images 18:52 < rxr> did you do a full install? 18:52 < rxr> theoretically it is possible to leave out packages in the "isntaller" 18:53 < koan> hm I chose the minimal package set 18:53 < rxr> aha! 18:53 < koan> ok, I thought minimal was enough, my fault 18:53 < rxr> (while it is nice that this still, works, haven't used that in years :-), use he full test :-) 18:53 < rxr> well, certainly enough for very small setups 18:54 < koan> 729M used 18:54 < rxr> you could use stone and the mine frontend therein to install more bianry packages from the CD 18:54 < rxr> however, I even do not use that often, probably not super smooth :-( 18:54 < rxr> this "minimal set" was more used when we used to build very full desktop / server binaries sets some decade ago 18:55 < rxr> nowadays I intentionally publish minimal builds as most people tend not to need 66% of the former big desktop/server set 18:55 < rxr> so it just wasts build time and traffic 18:56 < rxr> we decided some years ago that the "openbsd"-alike minimal target is a nice base system to start to emerge xfce & co 18:56 < koan> ok I misunderstood the minimal package set, as I thought it equaled the full package set of the minimal ISO 18:56 < rxr> yeah, I completely forgot that the installer has that option :-)( 18:56 < rxr> guess I should make it more clear 18:56 < rxr> btw. the installer currently can not show the packages sizes anymore since we removed some historic clutter from the packages 18:57 < rxr> I had no time to fix the installer to read the sizes from the more sorted, straight-forard tarball files, yet :-( 18:57 < rxr> but our plan was to write this binary handling anyway .... 18:57 < koan> ok, installing all packages now from stone 18:57 < koan> ok that was fast, there seems no big difference between minimal and all :-) 18:58 < koan> and now svn is there too 18:58 < rxr> yes as I wrote the "new", "official" isos are already a minimal package selection 18:58 < rxr> the installer just happens to know another, old minimal set for the former huge (DVD, multi-CD) desktop/server builds, ... 18:59 < koan> seems fair to me, T2 feels a lot like BSD systems this way 18:59 < rxr> patches to remove that, or improve it welcome :-) 18:59 < rxr> maybe I get some more inspiration from the openbsd installation 18:59 < rxr> once I saw it I liked some parts of it 19:00 < koan> btw, I'm using FreeBSD now as my main desktop since half a year, I really like it 19:00 < rxr> :_) 19:00 < rxr> I had many friends at university who enjoyed it 19:00 < rxr> however, personally, I'd rather not go the route to another monolythic kernel 19:01 < rxr> I'm anooyed enough when my rotuer crashes just because of some strange, yet untracked, typo in the PPPoE code of Linux, ... 19:01 < rxr> I'd rahter envision a multi-server micro-kernel OS restart just thtat pppoed, ipv4d, or 3comd, ... 19:02 < koan> of course breadth of hardware support is the main problem with all those microkernels 19:02 < rxr> yeah, which also kept me on Linux instead of an BSD the last decade, ... 19:02 < koan> they are no match for Linux with respect to drivers 19:02 < rogermason> rxr: I got past the aclocal problem in atk by replacing $root/$SDECFG_PKG_GNOME2_CORE_PREFIX/share/aclocal with $root/usr/share/aclocal. Unfortunately I now run into another autotools error: configure.in:166: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_PATH_GLIB_2_0. 19:03 < rxr> though dragonfly certainly has a pretty good support being so *BSD derived 19:03 < rxr> but, actually, developing drivers on a real micro-kernel OS is way more fun and quicker, as not every typo is taking your whole OS down 19:03 < rxr> unless you happen to code on the scheduler, or memory mapper :-) 19:03 < rxr> rogermason: I just happen to re-emerge half of my system on a fresh ppc64 install in the hope to see something simillar as you get 19:05 < rogermason> rxr: I seem to collect errors: it seems that 90% of what I attempt fails :-( 19:05 -!- ian_wiz [~ian@c-98-236-69-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #t2 19:05 [Users #t2] 19:05 [@ChanServ] [ digitaloktay] [ koan ] [ mtr ] [ Stealth] 19:05 [ Asmundr ] [ dileks ] [ mjungwirth ] [ rogermason] [ TobiX ] 19:05 [ CIA-29 ] [ ian_wiz ] [ mjungwirth2] [ rxr ] [ zod ] 19:05 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal] 19:06 < rxr> rogermason: sorry, the emerging from .cache files was a little rough 19:06 < rxr> rogermason: I definetly want to see that improved just work on it 19:06 < rxr> and then the usual .0 release fallout 19:09 < CIA-29> rene * r36887 /trunk/package/ (68 files in 68 dirs): 19:09 < CIA-29> * updated .cache files with invalied gnue* dependencies, also 19:09 < CIA-29> clears off quite some general python noise 19:09 < CIA-29> rene * r36888 /trunk/package/ (23 files in 23 dirs): * clear some more wxpython related noise 19:10 -!- ian_wiz [~ian@c-98-236-69-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:17 -!- mjungwirth2 [~mjungwirt@213.174.252.112] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:23 < rxr> rogermason: good news! I can reproduce this atk failure on ppc64 :-) 19:35 < CIA-29> rene * r36889 /trunk/package/ (1254 files in 1254 dirs): 19:35 < CIA-29> * updated most .cache files that where from 2005, removes more noise 19:35 < CIA-29> (e.g. gtk+12, and friends) than it adds, ... 19:40 -!- ian_wiz [~ian@c-98-236-69-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #t2 19:40 < CIA-29> rene * r36890 /trunk/package/gnome2/ (7 files in 7 dirs): * updated some more gnome2 .cache files 19:41 < CIA-29> rene * r36891 /trunk/package/ (7 files in 7 dirs): * updated .cache files that included the old, split bluez-* references 19:42 < rogermason> rxr: Your good news is good. I think :-) 19:42 < ian_wiz> Hello, n00b here, with a few questions, anyone have a moment to spare? 19:42 < rxr> just type your questions and we'll see 19:43 < ian_wiz> ok, I know the download -cfg sys -req...is no necessary with the 8.0 build 19:44 < CIA-29> rene * r36892 /trunk/package/ (29 files in 29 dirs): * updated yet more .cache files that referenced the aging "fam" package 19:44 < ian_wiz> but in the interest of thorough-ness, i ran it, and dirttree fails bc the address does not resolve. problem, or not so much? 19:44 < rxr> ian_wiz: yes, Build-Target / Emerge now fetch missing downloads on demand (for some years) 19:45 < rogermason> rxr: by the way, there is no need to apologise. After all you are making your hard work available to anyone who wishes to use T2. 19:45 < ian_wiz> got ya, i noticed the PDF manual is slightly out of date, no worries! =) 19:45 < ian_wiz> second, if I have a kernel config from another build system, ie arago/oe/angstrom, can i "cut & paste" into custom kernel config? 19:46 < rxr> yes, either if you enable custom kernel config in the Config menu, or by placing it in your target/.../kernel.conf, I generally advise to create whole new targets in any case to keep all your config, patches, etc. groupped ogether 19:46 < rxr> together even 19:47 < CIA-29> rene * r36893 /trunk/package/ (25 files in 25 dirs): * updated yet more .cache files referencing deprecated gnome1* packages 19:48 -!- digitaloktay [~win7@unaffiliated/digitaloktay] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48 -!- digitaloktay [~win7@dslb-084-056-245-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #t2 19:48 -!- digitaloktay [~win7@dslb-084-056-245-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:48 -!- digitaloktay [~win7@unaffiliated/digitaloktay] has joined #t2 19:49 < ian_wiz> roger that, i e-mailed the list about creating a board config for OMAPl138 Hawkboard and Leopard DM365 (TI-DM365-evm), is there a FAQ on building a new board config? 19:49 < rxr> nope 19:49 < rxr> but for the main part it is "just" getting the 3rd party kernel patches together, and choosing the right (ARM) cpu optimization option, ... 19:50 < rxr> the sad thing about ARM is that you nearly need a custom kernel per device :-( 19:51 < ian_wiz> i hear ya...where does the beagle board config reside, so I can review it's construction? 19:51 < rxr> we don't have a beagle board config 19:51 < CIA-29> rene * r36894 /trunk/package/ (37 files in 37 dirs): * updated .cache referencing zope and setuptools 19:51 < rxr> if you start a new target you could place the patches in your target/.../pkg_linux26.patch 19:52 < rxr> or if you have many many target/.../package/linux26/*many*file*names*.patch 19:52 < rxr> as this is mostly about getting the right cpu glue bits into the linux kernel anyway 19:52 < rxr> (usually not all upstream) 19:53 < rxr> avr32 and blackfin we used to have some more overlay 19:53 < rxr> but, I could help with a beagleboard example, actually have one lingering on some table here 19:53 < ian_wiz> 10.4 I know we can specify git mirrors into the build process, can we pull down the linux-davinci git repository? (I read the whole manual last night, but am suffering from mental juicy poos right now) 19:54 < rxr> you could indeed pull whole git repositories 19:56 < ian_wiz> ok, i will do homework on that tonight. i appreciate the help. 19:57 < ian_wiz> Endgame is to get Puppy onto ARMv5 and up, the Hawkboard has built in SATA and for DVR purposes this could be nice. 19:57 < rxr> :-) 19:57 < rxr> I know companies are using T2 for ARM products 19:58 < rxr> ARM was one of my first non-x86 stuff to work on, back on the early days, with Psion hardware 19:58 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/targets/psion/ 19:59 < ian_wiz> It's my first leap into non-x86, and out of Win enviro. Sort of like working on British cars, not easy, but satisfying in the end. 20:00 < rxr> :-) 20:00 < ian_wiz> alright, i'm going to do homework, I appreciate the help rxr and will no doubt be back. cheers! 20:00 < rxr> cu 20:01 -!- ian_wiz [~ian@c-98-236-69-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06 < CIA-29> rene * r36895 /trunk/package/ (6 files in 6 dirs): * updated .cache that depended on *makedep* 20:09 < CIA-29> rene * r36896 /trunk/package/ (4 files in 4 dirs): * updated some more random .cache files 20:11 < CIA-29> rene * r36897 /trunk/package/ (18 files in 18 dirs): * yet more .cache files which do look better, now 20:15 < rxr> rogermason: found the issue, commit in a sec 20:20 < CIA-29> rene * r36898 /trunk/package/ (9 files in 9 dirs): * yet more .cache file updates due overly insane deps 20:26 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/packages/gperf.html 20:27 [Users #t2] 20:27 [@ChanServ] [ digitaloktay] [ mjungwirth] [ rxr ] [ zod] 20:27 [ Asmundr ] [ dileks ] [ mtr ] [ Stealth] 20:27 [ CIA-29 ] [ koan ] [ rogermason] [ TobiX ] 20:27 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 13 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 12 normal] 20:28 < rxr> note to newcomers, I sometimes paste package matrix links here to increase the relevance for our google custom search, ... just in case someone wonders :-) 20:31 < koan> what is the difference again between generic system and desktop (for the target) 20:35 < rxr> the generic builds nearly all packages without much frills (read patches etc.) 20:36 < rxr> (like vanilla GNU/Linux) nowadays the generic target has package (pre-) selection templates, like minimal, ... 20:36 < rxr> we default to minimal for some time so that people do not build excessi stuff they do not need 20:37 < rxr> the desktop target is a desktop pre-selection and prevously has some prettification pathces applies 20:38 < rxr> nowadays it's superflous, guess I can rather delete it now ... 20:42 < CIA-29> rene * r36900 /trunk/package/gnome2/ (6 files in 6 dirs): 20:42 < CIA-29> * fixed some stray build errors due direct use of a potentially 20:42 < CIA-29> undefined $SDECFG_PKG_GNOME2_CORE_PREFIX, use pkgprefix instead! 20:43 < rxr> rogermason: the last commit should fix your atk error 20:43 < rxr> all the .cache updates should improve Emerge behaviour 20:43 < rxr> I'll further keep an eye on improving just Emerge experience over the next weeks 20:43 < rxr> (while I update my G5, and G4 Cube) 20:44 < rxr> cu then 20:48 < CIA-29> rene * r36899 /trunk/package/gnome2/gobject-introspection/gobject-introspection.conf: * guided gobject-introspection to build without cairo (just for the tests, ...) 21:07 < rogermason> rxr: so I suppose I should check out trunk to get the fix? 21:10 < koan> so I'm working now with 8.0, should I upgrade to trunk? which updates go into 8.0 now and which ones into trunk? 21:13 < koan> btw is it also possible to configure build options for specific packages, like make config does in FreeBSD ports? 21:49 -!- ian_wiz [~ian@c-98-236-69-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #t2 21:51 < ian_wiz> Hello, after first build, BusyBox aborted due to bad value for -mtune= switch (arm926ej-s), thoughts? 22:27 -!- digitaloktay [~win7@unaffiliated/digitaloktay] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:43 < rxr> koan: you can emerge from either trunk or 8.0 22:43 < rxr> currently it doesnot matter much, but trunk has some fixes ahead 22:43 < rxr> most will be merged back to 8.0 if they proof ok 22:43 < rxr> Config has package 22:43 < rxr> options 22:44 < rxr> now we are even slashdotted 22:44 < rxr> kind of first time ever 22:46 < rxr> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/07/22/1852234/Open-Source-OCR-That-Makes-Searchable-PDFs 23:25 -!- ian_wiz [~ian@c-98-236-69-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] --- Log closed Fri Jul 23 00:00:14 2010