--- Log opened Sun Oct 18 00:00:43 2009
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12:57 < rxr> re
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13:11 < CIA-38> rene * r34576 /trunk/package/base/sysfiles/sysfiles.conf: * do not extra log btee compilation, skip O2, standard options and transforms apply, anyway
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13:13 < rxr> koan: in case you want to publish about t2 8.0, please hold of some days until the -rc2
13:14 < rxr> some first-all-cross-build falloff dust has to settle :_)
13:20 < CIA-38> rene * r34577 /trunk/package/base/sysfiles/sysfiles.conf: * also run the postsysfile scripts on cross build
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13:28 < CIA-38> rene * r34578 /trunk/package/base/sysfiles/sysfiles.conf: 
13:28 < CIA-38> * reindent sysfiles.conf after the previous conditional removal
13:28 < CIA-38> * polish some T2-style whitespace and newlines on the way
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13:40 < dpc> Hi. Anybody available?
13:40 < rxr> yes
13:40 [Users #t2]
13:40 [@ChanServ] [ koan       ] [ mpp_     ] [ rxr     ] [ T-One] 
13:40 [ CIA-38  ] [ mjungwirth_] [ mqueiros_] [ Stealth ] [ TobiX] 
13:40 [ dpc     ] [ mpp        ] [ mtr      ] [ synchris] 
13:40 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
13:41 < dpc> Cool.
13:41 < dpc> What binary iso do I need to install in a VM to get a system in which building T2 will actually work?
13:41 < dpc> I've tried on my Ubuntu and I was close, but I'm tired now.
13:41 < CIA-38> rene * r34579 /trunk/package/emulators/gxemul/gxemul.desc: * updated gxemul (0.4.6.5 -> 0.4.7.2)
13:41 < rxr> well, in theory it should build on any, Debian, SuSE, etc.
13:42 < dpc> In theory. :)
13:42 < rxr> for t2 it would be best to grab the 7.0-rc2 Id day
13:42 < rxr> say
13:42 < dpc> minimal-i486 ?
13:43 < dpc> ftp://ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/t2/stable/7.0-rc2/ - I'm looking here
13:43 < rxr> yes
13:44 < dpc> t2-7.0-rc2-minimal-i486.iso I have installed this one. But when doing ./scripts/Build-Target it failes on perl something.
13:44 < dpc> I remember having this one on Ubuntu due to lack of some perl related package.
13:45 < rxr> hm
13:45 < rxr> just try on ubunutu
13:45 < rxr> I try to fix bugs that you encounted on the way
13:46 < dpc> The official guide says it is good to grab t2-rescue.
13:46 < rxr> the only thing that might be an issue is the dash or what it was default sh shell
13:46 < rxr> IIRC
13:46 < rxr> yes, that is indeed good
13:46 < rxr> if you have the resoruces grab the 7.0-rc2
13:46 < dpc> But I don't know how to install resouce.
13:46 < dpc> It start live-cd.
13:46 < dpc> *starts
13:47 < rxr> yeah, the t2 livecd have no installer
13:47 < rxr> the minimals in your link above come with a normal installer
13:47 < dpc> Yes. I've just started it.
13:47 < dpc> In VirtualBox.
13:47 < dpc> Installed, svn checkout (trunk), required files downloaded.
13:48 < rxr> sounds good
13:48 < dpc> I'm root and I do ./script/Build-Targe
13:48 < dpc> It build linux-headers
13:49 < dpc> The config is to skip Paranoia, do a crossbuild (it's x86 ->x86 but I seen somewhere that crossbuilding should be used all the time and it worked better even on my ubuntu when doing x64 -> x64).
13:49 < dpc> Generic, minimal system.
13:49 < dpc> Let's wait a bit I'll paste the error.
13:49 < rxr> ok
13:51 < dpc> I was trying to build T2 on my Ubuntu 9.10 beta for a long time and I was close, but it's beyond my T2 understanding at the moment.
13:51 < dpc> However I think you should really do try get it built on other distros.
13:52 < rxr> we do and I was not aware there still problems
13:52 < rxr> I even do built t2 on very old T2 or ROCK Linux versions
13:53 < rxr> e.g. one test server still has bash-2.05b.0, gcc-3.2.3 and was a base install from ROCK Linux 2.0.1 (2004/03/13)
13:53 < rxr> we continously adapt to foreign distro problems, ...
13:53 < dpc> From the T2 minimal install:
13:53 < dpc> Can't locate strict.pm in @INC (@INC contains ... )
13:54 < rxr> I think that was an issue on that t2 release, some perl files missing
13:54 < dpc> I'm unable to copy paste.
13:54 < rxr> yo can just rebuild perl
13:54 < dpc> How? :)
13:54 < rxr> ./scripts/Emerge-Pkg -deps=none perl
13:54 < rxr> with a config matching your cpu
13:54 < dpc> default should be OK I guess. As this is x86 VM building x86 target.
13:55 < rxr> yeah, then just emerge with the above commands
13:55 < dpc> I've spotted some problems when building in Ubuntu.
13:55 < rxr> -deps=none just avoids updating half of the system :-)
13:55 < dpc> package/security/openssl/openssl.conf: (had to add:)
13:55 < dpc> +hook_add premake 6 "touch Makefile"
13:55 < rxr> we'll have new 8.0 releases in the next days
13:56 < dpc> As Makefile was older then some other files and error was printed.
13:56 < rxr> h
13:56 < rxr> hm
13:56 < rxr> intresting issues
13:56 < dpc> Same in the package/base/libpcap/libpcap.conf
13:56 < dpc> +hook_add premake 5 "touch Makefile"
13:57 < dpc> And I remember that one config failed because Makefile contained -ltermcap (or something like this) while I had to change it to -lncurses (I've followed the FixFileDiff instruction)
13:57 < dpc> One sec and I'll tell which one was it.
13:58 < rxr> it's best to always immediately post that on the mailing lsit so it's not forgotten
13:58 < dpc> package/base/procinfo/fix-termcap-to-ncurses.patch
13:58 < dpc> Which list should I use?
13:59 < rxr> there is only one for posting, no? -svn and -update should be read-only aumtatics, so the regular t2 lsit
13:59 < rxr> list
13:59 < rxr> t2 at t2-project dot org
13:59 < dpc> OK. I'll register now.
14:01 < CIA-38> rene * r34580 /trunk/package/emulators/pearpc/gcc43.patch: * fix pearpc to build for x864-64 with gcc-4.3, again
14:15 < dpc> Is t2 mailinglist sends copy of an email to a sender as well?
14:15 < rxr> I think so
14:16 < rxr> I got an mail from ucore dot info
14:16 < dpc> Good. It's me.
14:17 < rxr> maybe, if you have a very strict mail server you might not get mails as the t2-project MX has no revertse dns ptr for the ip :-(
14:18 < dpc> Ulalala. Gmail do I use to host my email. Shall the messages pass, you think? :)
14:18 < rxr> yes, gmail accepts them :-.)
14:19 < dpc> Good to hear that is. :)
14:19 < dpc> I've received an email from minimalist so it should be OK.
14:20 < dpc> T2 VM installation is not building fine. Thank you.
14:20 < rxr> s/not/now/ ?
14:21 < dpc> *now
14:21 < dpc> Right.
14:23 < rxr> all the ppc and sparm emulators (qemu, pearpc) don't like me these days
14:23 < rxr> why the heck are they now more broken then ever
14:23 < rxr> especially qemu
14:24 < rxr> one step forward, 3 steps back
14:24 < rxr> damnit
14:31 < dpc> Crosscomiling is always a hard lifestyle. :)
14:31 < rxr> hm?
14:33 < dpc> Sorry. :)
14:34 < dpc> Whats wrong with a qemu this time?
14:34 < rxr> run time, ppc/sparc openbios broken to no avail
14:34 < rxr> the openhackware hacks worked better, actually loaded anything at all :-)
14:36 < dpc> Heh. I've not played with PPC/SPARC emulation and qemu much.
14:36 < rxr> yeah, of course x86 works way better
14:37 < dpc> I work on SPARC everyday and I must say I like the architecture.
14:37 < rxr> yeah, guess why I do all the non-x86 stuff for T2 :-)
14:37 < dpc> However I'm not sure how does it looks like from the qemu side.
14:37 < rxr> jsut that silo does not load right now and some emulator would be nice(tm) to debug this ...
14:38 < dpc> Oh.
14:38 < dpc> I didn't even know what silo is. Sparc Improved boot LOader...
14:38 < dpc> What's wrong with grub? It's used in Solaris.
14:38 < rxr> yeah, that thing that loads the linux kernel on sparc*
14:39 < rxr> grub until 2.0 beta/alpha did not support sparc
14:39 < rxr> and I bet their proof of concept code in 2.0 is not more stable than silo
14:39 < rxr> grub was until recently x86 only
14:40 < dpc> How come? I can see it .... oh.... right ... . OBP loads Solaris on SPARCS. Right.
14:40 < dpc> But who needs SILO when there is an OBP.
14:41 < rxr> obp can not load linux
14:41 < rxr> for a start you usually have linux on some non OBP support filesystem
14:41 < rxr> and then the loader requirements differ
14:41 < rxr> you got silo to load the linux kernel on sparc*
14:41 < rxr> and yaboot to load linux on powerpc*
14:41 < rxr> aboot for Alpha
14:42 < rxr> elilo for IA64
14:42 < rxr> etc. pp.
14:42 < dpc> Understood. :)
14:43 < rxr> though grub2 starts to support more than x86
14:43 < rxr> how stable that is I leave for futhre experimentation
14:43 < rxr> also I'm not sure if grub2 actually support cd booting on x86
14:43 < rxr> some months ago it did not even support that, ...
14:46 < dpc> What are uses of Linux on Solaris? I work in SUN Microsystem Support and even though I know that you can install Linux on SPARC I wouldn't see much of sense in installing something other than Solaris on these boxes. What are the common purposes of such combo (Linux + SPARC)?
14:47 < rxr> beside fun?
14:47 < dpc> Yes. :)
14:47 < rxr> well, I personally only do fun for t2 on it
14:48 < dpc> I wish I could get a notebook with SPARC inside. That'd be cool.
14:48 < rxr> but I guess bigger institutes do so for the heterogeneous of the infrastructure, same tools as on other linux machines etc.
14:48 < rxr> dpc: there whre sparc notebooks in the past
14:48 < rxr> tough pretty expensive, though
14:49 < rxr> and often loud
14:49 < dpc> I know. I've seen them... on pictures.
14:49 < rxr> http://www.sparcproductdirectory.com/portable10.html
14:50 < rxr> saw some in real :-)
14:50 < rxr> ^ - I
14:50 < dpc> :)
14:50 < rxr> but never owned one, too espensive too loud
14:50 < dpc> Gobi 7 looks cool.
14:51 < CIA-38> rene * r34581 /trunk/package/emulators/pearpc/pearpc.conf: * copy the pearpc config example, without probably no sane person is able to use it
14:51 < CIA-38> rene * r34582 /trunk/package/emulators/pearpc/ (pearpc.cache pearpc.desc): * updated pearpc (0.4 -> 2009-10-18), adds x86-64 JIT, other fixes
14:51 < dpc> However I guess there is not much of the point of using Sparc inside thin client. It could be X64 as well - cheaper and just better.
14:52 < rxr> well, if it would be me to decide, I would can the criptic, complex, engery wasting x86 ISA
14:52 < rxr> and just use PPC, MIPS, ARM, SPARC, etc..
14:53 < dpc> ARM especially. :)
14:53 < rxr> they are also virtualizable without further silicon support, unlike x86 which is not virtualizable per se. and either requires expensive a-head scanning or dedicated further silicon to workaround historic design mistakes ...
14:54 < CIA-38> rene * r34583 /trunk/package/emulators/pearpc/gcc43.patch: * removed pearpc/gcc43.patch, obsolete by CVS update
14:54 < rxr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popek_and_Goldberg_virtualization_requirements
14:54 < dpc> It's funny most dominant architecture is the one that is worst of all available. However with mobile devices I guess ARM is even now a leader.
14:55 < rxr> the question is how long
14:55 < rxr> Intel might overturn them in the next years to come
14:55 < dpc> With atoms?
14:55 < rxr> super scaled down Atom, ...
14:55 < rxr> in 3y or so, ... ARM will have an even more difficult time
14:56 < dpc> NOoooooo. ;(
14:56 < dpc> ARM is very nice. SPARC is marvelous in terms of it's instruction set and assembler. And x64 is purely a crap...
14:57 < rxr> it's for a reason smartphones happen to appear on intel roadmaps from time to time in conjunction with the all-in-on-chip (SoC) Atoms after the pinetrail atom
14:57 < rxr> wel, actual x86-64 is not as bad as pure x86
14:58 < rxr> AMD did a pretty good cleanup ...
14:58 < rxr> no wonder their virtualization extension is cleaned, more full featured and performs better than Intel's ...
14:58 < dpc> But is the BIOS to stay with the architecture?
14:58 < dpc> ACPI ?
14:59 < rxr> for some SoC Atoms Intel even plans to can ACPI, let the OS take full control of the chip bits again ...
14:59 < rxr> but the BIOS et al. is not really part of the chip ISA anyway ...
15:00 < dpc> So you can have x64 without BIOS?
15:01 < rxr> sure, with EFI for one
15:01 < rxr> but without fully custom code for another
15:01 < rxr> even with openfirmware if one would want do
15:01 < rxr> to
15:02 < rxr> http://www.google.com/search?q=x86+open+firmware+olpc
15:02 < rxr> http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot
15:05 < dpc> brb; will read...
15:07 < dpc> BTW. Have you seen this: http://labs.asn.pl/fakebox/
15:36 < rxr> nope
15:48 < rxr> http://www.engadget.com/
15:48 < rxr> heh, amd congo stuff to finally appar ?
15:48 < rxr> appear even
15:53 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-10-18/more-amd-congo-stuff-to-appear-soon/
15:57 < CIA-38> rene * r34584 /trunk/architecture/sparc/boot/boot.msg: * use the "right" capitalization in the sparc boot loader message
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16:04 < rxr> hi capey !
16:04 [Users #t2]
16:04 [@ChanServ] [ dpc        ] [ mpp      ] [ mtr    ] [ synchris] 
16:04 [ capey   ] [ koan       ] [ mpp_     ] [ rxr    ] [ T-One   ] 
16:04 [ CIA-38  ] [ mjungwirth_] [ mqueiros_] [ Stealth] [ TobiX   ] 
16:04 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
16:06 < capey> hi rxr
16:08 < rxr> capey: how's life ?
16:09 < capey> rxr: goog good, thanks for asking, btw. congrats on marriage
16:10 < rxr> thank you!
16:10 < capey> :)
16:11 < rxr> job and such all as the last time we talked?
16:12 < capey> well yeah, got ultra busy from work side, but thats nothing new :)
16:13 < capey> just testing the new 8.0-rc and thought on dropping by here and catch all the latest news
16:14 < rxr> yeah - you're welcome
16:15 < rxr> would be great to see you around more often
16:16 < capey> hopefully i'll be here, will be quite busy end of the year,need to finish beta cycle on software
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17:10 < capey> puuh,didnt remember that it's this tedious to get qt compiled in this other stuff, 3 hours and still compiling
17:11 < rxr> heh
17:12 < capey> that reminds me, i should resurrect my work on getting qt ui for package selection
17:13 < capey> i'm getting to like too much on point & click software
17:13 < capey> that is, when it works
17:31 < rxr> yeh
17:31 < rxr> yeah
17:50 < CIA-38> rene * r34585 /trunk/architecture/sparc/boot/boot.in: * improved sparc boot cd compatibility
18:20 < rxr> http://t2-project.org/packages/elftoaout.html
18:29 < CIA-38> rene * r34586 /trunk/architecture/powerpc/boot/ (boot.in bootinfo.txt ofboot.b): * improved powerpc boot cd compatibility, likewise
19:34 < rxr> dah, damn crap
19:34 < rxr> silo 1.4.14 has again no tarball release
19:34 < rxr> all those looney working for the "big distributions" should get a decent kick into the ass for not properly releasing vanilla tarballs ... !!!
19:42 < CIA-38> rene * r34587 /trunk/package/sparc/silo/silo.desc: * updated silo (1.4.13 -> 1.4.14), some git extracted snapshot in absense of a propper tarball, yuck.
20:03 < capey> hmm... strange, attr fails of missing ar and ranlib
20:03 < capey> arch prefixed that is
20:04 < CIA-38> rene * r34588 /trunk/package/sparc/silo/ (5 files): * updated silo (1.4.14 -> 1.4.14_git)
20:04 < capey> maybe some small binutils problems
20:04 < capey> but i'm off for today, have to test more tomorrow
20:05 < rxr> cu
20:05 < capey> cu
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20:07 < CIA-38> rene * r34589 /trunk/package/sparc/silo/register-pseudoop.patch: * removed obsolete silo patch
20:10 < CIA-38> rene * r34590 /trunk/package/sparc/silo/ (be-crosscompilable.patch cross.patch): * renamed silo cross patch for readability and consistency
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20:20 < CIA-38> rene * r34591 /trunk/package/gnome2/gtk+/gtk+.desc: * updated gtk+ (2.18.2 -> 2.18.3)
20:20 < CIA-38> rene * r34592 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnome-keyring/gnome-keyring.desc: * updated gnome-keyring (2.28.0 -> 2.28.1)
20:20 < CIA-38> rene * r34594 /trunk/package/xorg/libx11/libx11.desc: * updated libx11 (1.3 -> 1.3.1)
20:20 < CIA-38> rene * r34593 /trunk/package/xorg/xtrans/xtrans.desc: * updated xtrans (1.2.4 -> 1.2.5)
20:20 < CIA-38> rene * r34595 /trunk/package/xorg/libxaw/libxaw.desc: * updated libxaw (1.0.6 -> 1.0.7)
20:23 < CIA-38> rene * r34596 /branches/7.0/misc/luabash/bash/luabash.c: * mreged r33441 from trunk: * added BASH_VERSION 4.x to the known luabash versions
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--- Log closed Mon Oct 19 00:00:43 2009