T2 IRC Log: 2007-08-27
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Mon Aug 27 00:00:12 2007
00:18 < sepp> the new stable version have no version number, like gtk+ vs gtk+12 or libxml vs libxml1
00:19 < sepp> sometimes :p
00:24 < mqueiros__> happycube: witch one doesn't build ?
00:33 < happycube> libxml
00:33 < happycube> which leads to xslt not building either because it skips libxml
00:34 < mqueiros__> I'v builted libxml and libxml1 in trunk...
00:34 < mqueiros__> desktop target...
00:34 < happycube> i'm trying to cross compile it:P
00:34 < mqueiros__> ok... :)
00:59 < happycube> actually... there's a problem in configure - it has one line which is just ;
01:00 < CIA-24> denisk * r25781 /branches/rtai/target/rtai/ (busybox.config config.in pkgsel):
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08:40 < CIA-24> susan * r25782 /trunk/package/perl/perl-archive-tar/perl-archive-tar.desc: * updated perl-archive-tar (1.32 -> 1.34)
08:40 < CIA-24> susan * r25783 /trunk/package/network/bluez-libs/bluez-libs.desc: * updated bluez-libs (3.14 -> 3.15)
08:40 < CIA-24> susan * r25784 /trunk/package/network/bluez-utils/bluez-utils.desc: * updated bluez-utils (3.14 -> 3.15)
08:42 < mtr> moin
08:42 < CIA-24> susan * r25785 /trunk/package/security/prelude-manager/prelude-manager.desc: * updated prelude-manager (0.9.9 -> 0.9.9.1)
08:47 -!- DeeKey [n=kulandin@jabber.hst.ru] has joined #t2
08:47 < DeeKey> :) Morning :)
08:49 < mtr> hi DeeKey :)
08:55 < CIA-24> mtr * r25786 /trunk/package/network/wput/ (. wput.cache wput.desc): * added wput (0.6) - A command-line ftp upload utility
08:56 < rxr> re
08:56 < rxr> moin moin mtr, DeeKey, write_erase
08:57 < write_erase> hi rxr
08:58 < DeeKey> rxr: I think it is time to merge RTAI branch with trunk. It is possible to compile the target and I have made some updates to other packages.
08:58 < DeeKey> yes there are still some problems remain, but I hope to fix them later in th future..
08:58 < rxr> yes that sounds great
08:58 < CIA-24> rene * r25787 /trunk/target/share/initrd/ (. build.sh rootfs/ rootfs/init): * started initrd/initramfs output processing
08:59 < DeeKey> Actually my to do list is still quite big :( But now it does not look so weird to me :)
08:59 < mtr> hi rxr
09:00 < CIA-24> susan * r25788 /trunk/package/gnome2/pidgin/pidgin.desc: * updated pidgin (2.1.0 -> 2.1.1)
09:00 < CIA-24> susan * r25789 /trunk/package/gnome2/brasero/brasero.desc: * updated brasero (0.6.0 -> 0.6.1)
09:00 < CIA-24> susan * r25790 /trunk/package/python/itools/itools.desc: * updated itools (0.16.6 -> 0.16.7)
09:05 < CIA-24> rene * r25791 /trunk/package/xorg/xf86-video-ati/xf86-video-ati.desc: * updated xf86-video-ati (6.7.191 -> 6.7.192)
09:07 < DeeKey> FYI: My TODO list
09:07 < DeeKey> 1) comedi-driver --> need to make standalone compilation (without RTAI) .
09:07 < DeeKey> --> need to make some menu for users to select compilation options
09:07 < DeeKey> 2) RTAI --> need to update the menu.
09:07 < DeeKey> --> need to make it cross compilable (different patches for different architectures and kernel versions)
09:07 < DeeKey> --> rtai should have a possibility to be compiled standalone (without comedi-driver)
09:07 < DeeKey> --> Need to remove all hardlinks, make it easier to upgrade to new version
09:09 < rxr> Airbus 380 To Have Linux In Every Seat
09:09 < rxr> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/08/26/1735203.shtml
09:12 < DeeKey> 3) also want to make RTAI target more user friendly ( add some needed features to menu , remove unneeded)
09:12 < DeeKey> will make refactoring of target files to make it easier for the users to customise the target...
09:13 < DeeKey> And when the majority of the work will be done, I am going to make a announcement both in comedi and rtai mailing lists.
09:13 < rxr> sounds great
09:13 < rxr> I just prepared my 2nd, clean t2-trunk checkout for merging, ok =
09:13 < rxr> ?
09:14 < DeeKey> hope that it will not only "sound" :)
09:14 < rxr> (my main trunk has always a whole lot of working copy changes noise
09:14 < rxr> DeeKey: yeah - but with your update and in-kernel compilation you already have done a major leap forwards :)
09:17 < DeeKey> Thanks, but there are many things to do stilll...
09:17 < DeeKey> I failed to compile comedi against uclibc... hope that it will be possible in the future...
09:17 < DeeKey> And I am still far from my goal: creation of rtai based target for embedded system...
09:18 < rxr> why, because of uclibc ?
09:19 < DeeKey> yes. As far I understood the function "nearbyint" is not implemented in uclibc
09:21 < DeeKey> But frankly speaking comedi is not designed to be used in embedded systems. It is mostly for desctop PC's with some fancy IO board (like from National Instruments)
09:23 < DeeKey> rxr: BTW, I have reinstalled the system on the reisefs with noatime and the second, I dont remember for now option... In my humble oppinion the system is running faster then previously...
09:23 < DeeKey> and I think like I am going to migrate from gnome to KDE :)
09:27 < rxr> :-)
09:28 < rxr> DeeKey: I really have the impression that uclibc should have nearbyint if you built uclibc with this MATH_C99 or so config option
09:28 < rxr> are you sure you tried that ?
09:29 < DeeKey> MATH_C99 is enebled by deafult. Nearbyint is present, but it looks like it is not written...
09:29 < rxr> oh
09:30 < DeeKey> Anyway it is not a big deal to switch librries in t2!
09:30 < rxr> yeah ._)
09:31 < rxr> DeeKey: is there a big reasion why you updated busybox to the 1.7 unstable version ?
09:32 < DeeKey> is it unstale? .... No, I dont have any serious reasons, just tested how it works...
09:32 < rxr> ok - so I drop that part of the merge for now ?
09:32 < DeeKey> So leave the stable one
09:33 < rxr> well - I also only noticed because I said to susan she can skip the busybox update from the udpate mails as I noticed it in the rtai branch and she said "hu? it's unstable anyway" :-)
09:36 < CIA-24> rene * r25792 /trunk/ (26 files in 9 dirs): * merged rtai branch
09:37 < CIA-24> rene * r25793 /branches/rtai/: * removed rtai branch, merged back into trunk
09:44 < rxr> heh - ok, now the package matrix is sorted, again: http://www.t2-project.org/packages/
09:46 < DeeKey> sorted? It need to be updated firstly!
09:47 < rxr> hm ?
09:47 < rxr> updated ?
09:47 < DeeKey> rtai 3.2 contrib
09:47 < rxr> or do you mean with the rtai merge ?
09:47 < DeeKey> yes.
09:47 < DeeKey> I thought that it is done automatically....
09:51 < rxr> yes - in the past twice a day
09:51 < rxr> I rewrote it to generate dynamically
09:51 < rxr> but only from the existing svn checkouts that are there for other automated tasks
09:52 < rxr> so - the generation is instantly of up to 4h old checkouts
09:52 < rxr> I changed this now so that all automatics do not svn up themselfs, but have a svn up of the tree's once an hour
09:53 < DeeKey> rxr: what was the minimal functional linux distro you made? (RAM, ROM) and what is the minimal image for, lets say, common embedded system? A friend of mine have asked me about this...
09:53 < rxr> most tiny is 2MB ROM/RAM
09:54 < rxr> dietlibc very tiny stuff
09:54 < rxr> for glibc it is around 6MB compressed (purely minimal)
09:54 < rxr> glibc with mysql (don't ask) is less than 15MB compressed
09:54 < rxr> with k-drive embedded X and firefox it is around little elss than 40MB
09:55 < rxr> most systems are bigger, like 64MB ++
09:55 < rxr> because of more add-on libraries and bigger, historically grown applications etc.
09:55 < rxr> so - update was run
09:56 < rxr> package matrix should reflect the new stuff
09:56 < rxr> the local svn checkouts are now run every full hour
09:56 < DeeKey> I should be more patient next time :)
09:56 < rxr> comedi-driver 0.7.74 scientific
09:56 < rxr> comedi 0.8.0 scientific
09:57 < rxr> rtai 3.5-cv contrib
10:02 < rxr> http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/bash/bash-3.2-patches/bash32-025
10:03 < rxr> now this is insane, not only the 25th "incremental fix" for the current bash version, but the problem itself even more ...
10:06 < rxr> 3.2.25(2)-release
10:06 < rxr> ...
10:07 < CIA-24> rene * r25794 /trunk/package/shells/bash/bash.desc: * updated bash (3.2-17 -> 3.2-25)
10:27 < CIA-24> rene * r25795 /trunk/package/emulators/libvirt/libvirt.desc: * updated libvirt (0.3.0 -> 0.3.2)
10:33 < rxr> DeeKey: see rtai mail on the list :-)
10:34 < DeeKey> on what list?
10:36 < rxr> t2
10:36 < rxr> I answered already
10:36 < rxr> you are subsribed to the t2 list ?
10:36 < DeeKey> i am not in the list...
10:36 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/contact/
10:36 < rxr> http://www.nabble.com/Rtai-Target-tf4333954.html
10:43 < DeeKey> HAHAH I think the merge was just in time!
10:43 < DeeKey> for that user!
10:44 < rxr> maybe go subsribe to the list, it is not even mid-volume yet
10:44 < rxr> but shows the tendency to incrasae a little recently
10:44 < rxr> nearly 100 people on the list, now
10:44 < DeeKey> I have alrady subscribed.
10:44 < rxr> :-)
10:45 < DeeKey> rxr: what about the forum? Are you going to implement it?
10:46 < rxr> maybe run some existing thing on some virtual machine container
10:46 < rxr> DeeKey: do you want to propose something existing ?=
10:47 < DeeKey> PHPBB ? No? there will be the 3rd version soon
10:49 < rxr> I'm not really in forum software, so I have no idea at all
10:49 < DeeKey> http://www.phpbb.com/
10:50 < DeeKey> It is widely used. Open source easy to install.
11:06 < rxr> I think I read some security horror stories about that already
11:06 < rxr> but I'll take a look soon
11:08 < DeeKey> yeh, there were security problems with PHPBB in the past. but still it is the most spread forum :)
11:08 < DeeKey> If you are going to install it on Virt Machine, then there is nothing to fear :)
11:55 < rxr> haha: http://www.osnews.com/1997osnews/oped/11.97/mom.html
12:14 [Users #t2]
12:14 [@ChanServ] [ DeeKey] [ happycube] [ mqueiros__ ] [ rxr ] [ valentin ]
12:14 [ CIA-24 ] [ emte_ ] [ kic- ] [ mtr ] [ sepp ] [ write_erase]
12:14 [ cyda ] [ Fatal ] [ LMJ ] [ Ragnar|away] [ TobiX]
12:14 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
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13:58 < rxr> re
13:59 [Users #t2]
13:59 [@ChanServ] [ Dallur] [ Fatal ] [ LMJ ] [ Ragnar|away] [ TobiX ]
13:59 [ CIA-24 ] [ DeeKey] [ happycube] [ mqueiros__] [ rxr ] [ valentin ]
13:59 [ cyda ] [ emte_ ] [ kic- ] [ mtr ] [ sepp ] [ write_erase]
13:59 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 18 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 17 normal]
14:03 < DeeKey> hi
14:03 < DeeKey> What is the direction of rotation? http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/b/2/0/51/51876_5149773fbb5a.gif
14:07 < rxr> hm ?
14:08 < DeeKey> thleft or right?
14:08 < rxr> right
14:08 < DeeKey> show it to other people!
14:08 < rxr> clockwise
14:08 < DeeKey> everyone?
14:08 < rxr> -90°
14:08 < rxr> DeeKey: what dou you think =
14:08 < DeeKey> ?
14:09 < rxr> s/=/?/
14:09 < DeeKey> s/=/?/ What is that?
14:09 < rxr> sed expressino :-)
14:09 < rxr> substitute = with ? in my sentence above ...
14:09 < rxr> what do you wanna know ?
14:10 < DeeKey> Actually the direction of rotation can be changed!
14:10 < DeeKey> *magically*
14:10 < DeeKey> just show it to other people!
14:10 < DeeKey> and ask them what do they think about direction :)
14:14 < rxr> some people mix up left vs. right, yes
14:14 < DeeKey> HAHAH
14:14 < DeeKey> that is an illusion :)
14:15 < DeeKey> I can see it rotationg in both directions...
14:15 < DeeKey> Try to watch firtly at the right bottom and later at the middle left.
14:15 < DeeKey> Just a funny thing :)
14:23 < rxr> heh
14:23 < sepp> clockwise
14:24 < sepp> moin :)
14:25 < rxr> moin moin sepp
14:25 < sepp> hi rxr
14:40 < write_erase> rxr you bought a openmoko phone ?
14:46 < rxr> yes
14:47 < rxr> write_erase: why do you ask :-) ?
14:50 < write_erase> I'd like to know how long it takes to get it .
14:50 < write_erase> delivery / shipping .
14:52 < rxr> I think the current prototype bulk is already sold out
14:53 < rxr> for us it also took long as we ordered quite early but the initial prototype run needed some handling and shipment infrastructure to be set up
14:53 < rxr> the GPS can also not be used yet, and the batterylife sucks right now as well
14:54 < rxr> and the orig. OpenMoko software sucks, too, majorly
14:54 < rxr> nothing really works yet
14:54 < rxr> (we only use it for T2 related mobile phone platform development, ...)
14:54 < rxr> http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:mfso9QjeKh0J:rene.rebe.name/2007/08/+neo1973+Rene+Rebe&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1
14:54 < sepp> you can dial when you ssh in :p
14:54 < rxr> ^- my blog server is down right now ...
14:54 < rxr> sepp: right ...
14:54 < rxr> sepp: after loading audio settings over ssh and alsactl restore ...
14:55 < rxr> and if you have luck to have an old SIM cards that is compatbile ...
14:55 < sepp> it is a true geek phone, you need a cs degree to make a phone call
14:55 < rxr> good for us (T2 / ExactCODE) if they are that slow to get a leap ahead ...
14:56 < rxr> sepp: when all goes well (I can not help coding, I do other stuff right now) we'll be able to show T2 with Evas on the IFA
14:56 < rxr> including graphical dialing ...
14:57 < sepp> :)
14:57 < rxr> (including a line in some init script to load the ALSA mixer settings ... *evil grin*)
14:57 < rxr> but - well - actually the first version will aready have a graphical volume slider ...
14:58 < rxr> after all that are just 10 lines of C++ or Lua code :-)
15:00 < sepp> you like lua?
15:00 < rxr> partially .-)
15:01 < rxr> we'll see how our Xvas (eXact canvas stuff with lua bindings work out)
15:01 < CIA-24> rene * r25796 /trunk/scripts/config.in:
15:01 < CIA-24> * improved scripts/config.in to allow all package selection
15:01 < CIA-24> "techniques" at-a-time, as there is no reason qhy we should
15:01 < CIA-24> artificially limit this. En contraire, it allows targets to
15:01 < rxr> lua is tiny, fast and clean
15:01 < CIA-24> use a pkgsel for the selection and a pkgsel.sed to tweak
15:01 < CIA-24> build stages, ...
15:01 < rxr> C++ is good for low level stuff, but it is not so good for dynamically changing stuff, such as UI widget connections
15:01 < kic-> re
15:01 < rxr> Adobe also used the ObjC + Lua hybrid in Lightroom to combine the best of both worlds
15:01 < rxr> we investigate if it works out for us as well
15:02 < rxr> hi kic-
15:03 < CIA-24> rene * r25797 /trunk/target/rtbt/ (7 files in 3 dirs): * more implementation and cleanup for the rtbt target (used to test the new initrd output)
15:04 < sepp> hi kic-
15:06 < rxr> write_erase: the GPS of the OpenMoko can not be sued to deduce coordinates, yet
15:06 < rxr> as the protocol is still under reverse engineering AFAIHS
15:07 < rxr> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS
15:08 < rxr> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead/Protocol
15:09 < write_erase> wow... So It' not worth spending the money for this device yet .
15:09 < rxr> maybe you can not get new ones right nwo anyway
15:09 < write_erase> I'll buy some HTC device until neo is ready .
15:09 < rxr> the GTA01 was just hte prototype thing
15:09 < rxr> they produce GTA02 I think now to sell "soon"
15:10 < rxr> that will also include a 3D accel chip, and WLAN
15:10 < write_erase> That'll be nice .
15:10 < rxr> oh and accelerometers and what was the other thing?
15:10 < rxr> whatever
15:10 < write_erase> In fact, I realy enjoy the 640x480 display
15:10 < write_erase> Is the LCD nice ?
15:10 < rxr> if you do not need something urgently I would wait for GTA02 instead of an HTC thing
15:11 < rxr> the HTC thing never will run your own linux ...
15:11 < write_erase> R U sure ?
15:11 < rxr> well - the display on the Neo is not perfect IMHO
15:11 < rxr> it is quite high-resolution, but you it is quite small
15:12 < rxr> so you can not use it to render web pages and UI elements in a great way
15:12 < rxr> it just delivers fine details, and that's it
15:12 < rxr> also not that good for finger based UI stuff ...
15:12 < rxr> you quickly need a pen if you include fine elements
15:12 < rxr> and the Neo does not even contain a pen holder ...
15:13 < write_erase> Neo Touchscreen ?
15:13 < rxr> yes touchscreen
15:13 < write_erase> Neo has Touchscreen ?
15:13 < rxr> but a normal one
15:13 < rxr> not a freaky near field one as the iPhone
15:13 < rxr> that means you need to press, not like the iPhone where you do not need to touch the scren ....
15:13 < write_erase> ok ... without pen holder ... and not multipoint TS i guess .
15:13 < rxr> yeah - multipoint neither
15:14 < rxr> amd mp ca,era
15:14 < write_erase> http://www.advogato.org/article/866.html
15:15 < rxr> yeah - but it is even more difficult to get LInux onto them as it is on getting it functional on the Neo
15:17 < write_erase> sure .
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15:39 [@ChanServ] [ DeeKey ] [ kic- ] [ pdinoto ] [ TobiX ]
15:39 [ CIA-24 ] [ emte_ ] [ LMJ ] [ Ragnar|away] [ valentin ]
15:39 [ cyda ] [ Fatal ] [ mqueiros__] [ rxr ] [ write_erase]
15:39 [ Dallur ] [ happycube] [ mtr ] [ sepp ]
15:39 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 19 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal]
15:44 < DeeKey> HAHA :) One more funny project. I have already posted about FAB@home project -- a 3d printer, but RepRap is even more interesting project!
15:44 < DeeKey> the aim of reprap project is to create self replicating tooling machine. It will not only print, drill, cut or whatever but will also duplicate itself :)
15:44 < DeeKey> http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/RepRapOneDarwin#Printing_in_3D
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18:04 < rxr> 17:58 < don-o> reading the software testing page, its pretty funny to see people excited that outbound calls work some of
18:04 < rxr> the time.
18:04 < rxr> 17:58 < hhf423> don-o: start learning to be happy about the small things in live. :-)
18:04 < rxr> ...
19:04 < Ragnar|away> lol
19:04 -!- Ragnar|away is now known as Ragnarin
19:05 < LMJ> moin
19:05 < Ragnarin> moin moin
19:06 < rxr> moin moin LMJ and Ragnarin
19:06 < LMJ> dude, the weather is so hot here
19:06 < rxr> (it's so cld in berlin ...)
19:07 < rxr> cold even
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19:27 < CIA-24> rene * r25798 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnomesu/ (features.patch password-label.patch):
19:27 < CIA-24> * further patched gnomesu to allow command line based password label
19:27 < CIA-24> layouting, cleaned spaced in the other feature patch
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21:17 < sepp> moin :)
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22:33 < itsu> good evening to ya all
22:34 < sepp> good evening itsu
22:35 < itsu> i just updated via svn
22:35 < itsu> but rebuilding my broken package openvpn did not work
22:36 < itsu> so i had to cleanup -build
22:36 < sepp> no
22:36 < itsu> maybe anyone can help me with this
22:36 < sepp> default option is to skip rebuilding broken packages
22:36 < itsu> if i have working build with some packages failed
22:36 < itsu> ah...
22:36 < sepp> there is a Config option to change that
22:36 < itsu> i had to change that in the config
22:36 < itsu> thanx mate !
22:37 < itsu> ill correct it
22:37 < itsu> so i only rebuild the broken/update packages :-)
22:37 < sepp> or you run './scripts/Create-ErrList -cfg foo -remove packagexyz'
22:38 < itsu> cool,
22:38 < itsu> i really like t2
22:52 < sepp> :)
22:52 < sepp> just ask before removing the entire build ;-)
23:36 < itsu> roger
23:37 < itsu> good night , good fight ;-)
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 28 00:00:13 2007
00:18 < sepp> the new stable version have no version number, like gtk+ vs gtk+12 or libxml vs libxml1
00:19 < sepp> sometimes :p
00:24 < mqueiros__> happycube: witch one doesn't build ?
00:33 < happycube> libxml
00:33 < happycube> which leads to xslt not building either because it skips libxml
00:34 < mqueiros__> I'v builted libxml and libxml1 in trunk...
00:34 < mqueiros__> desktop target...
00:34 < happycube> i'm trying to cross compile it:P
00:34 < mqueiros__> ok... :)
00:59 < happycube> actually... there's a problem in configure - it has one line which is just ;
01:00 < CIA-24> denisk * r25781 /branches/rtai/target/rtai/ (busybox.config config.in pkgsel):
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08:40 < CIA-24> susan * r25782 /trunk/package/perl/perl-archive-tar/perl-archive-tar.desc: * updated perl-archive-tar (1.32 -> 1.34)
08:40 < CIA-24> susan * r25783 /trunk/package/network/bluez-libs/bluez-libs.desc: * updated bluez-libs (3.14 -> 3.15)
08:40 < CIA-24> susan * r25784 /trunk/package/network/bluez-utils/bluez-utils.desc: * updated bluez-utils (3.14 -> 3.15)
08:42 < mtr> moin
08:42 < CIA-24> susan * r25785 /trunk/package/security/prelude-manager/prelude-manager.desc: * updated prelude-manager (0.9.9 -> 0.9.9.1)
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08:47 < DeeKey> :) Morning :)
08:49 < mtr> hi DeeKey :)
08:55 < CIA-24> mtr * r25786 /trunk/package/network/wput/ (. wput.cache wput.desc): * added wput (0.6) - A command-line ftp upload utility
08:56 < rxr> re
08:56 < rxr> moin moin mtr, DeeKey, write_erase
08:57 < write_erase> hi rxr
08:58 < DeeKey> rxr: I think it is time to merge RTAI branch with trunk. It is possible to compile the target and I have made some updates to other packages.
08:58 < DeeKey> yes there are still some problems remain, but I hope to fix them later in th future..
08:58 < rxr> yes that sounds great
08:58 < CIA-24> rene * r25787 /trunk/target/share/initrd/ (. build.sh rootfs/ rootfs/init): * started initrd/initramfs output processing
08:59 < DeeKey> Actually my to do list is still quite big :( But now it does not look so weird to me :)
08:59 < mtr> hi rxr
09:00 < CIA-24> susan * r25788 /trunk/package/gnome2/pidgin/pidgin.desc: * updated pidgin (2.1.0 -> 2.1.1)
09:00 < CIA-24> susan * r25789 /trunk/package/gnome2/brasero/brasero.desc: * updated brasero (0.6.0 -> 0.6.1)
09:00 < CIA-24> susan * r25790 /trunk/package/python/itools/itools.desc: * updated itools (0.16.6 -> 0.16.7)
09:05 < CIA-24> rene * r25791 /trunk/package/xorg/xf86-video-ati/xf86-video-ati.desc: * updated xf86-video-ati (6.7.191 -> 6.7.192)
09:07 < DeeKey> FYI: My TODO list
09:07 < DeeKey> 1) comedi-driver --> need to make standalone compilation (without RTAI) .
09:07 < DeeKey> --> need to make some menu for users to select compilation options
09:07 < DeeKey> 2) RTAI --> need to update the menu.
09:07 < DeeKey> --> need to make it cross compilable (different patches for different architectures and kernel versions)
09:07 < DeeKey> --> rtai should have a possibility to be compiled standalone (without comedi-driver)
09:07 < DeeKey> --> Need to remove all hardlinks, make it easier to upgrade to new version
09:09 < rxr> Airbus 380 To Have Linux In Every Seat
09:09 < rxr> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/08/26/1735203.shtml
09:12 < DeeKey> 3) also want to make RTAI target more user friendly ( add some needed features to menu , remove unneeded)
09:12 < DeeKey> will make refactoring of target files to make it easier for the users to customise the target...
09:13 < DeeKey> And when the majority of the work will be done, I am going to make a announcement both in comedi and rtai mailing lists.
09:13 < rxr> sounds great
09:13 < rxr> I just prepared my 2nd, clean t2-trunk checkout for merging, ok =
09:13 < rxr> ?
09:14 < DeeKey> hope that it will not only "sound" :)
09:14 < rxr> (my main trunk has always a whole lot of working copy changes noise
09:14 < rxr> DeeKey: yeah - but with your update and in-kernel compilation you already have done a major leap forwards :)
09:17 < DeeKey> Thanks, but there are many things to do stilll...
09:17 < DeeKey> I failed to compile comedi against uclibc... hope that it will be possible in the future...
09:17 < DeeKey> And I am still far from my goal: creation of rtai based target for embedded system...
09:18 < rxr> why, because of uclibc ?
09:19 < DeeKey> yes. As far I understood the function "nearbyint" is not implemented in uclibc
09:21 < DeeKey> But frankly speaking comedi is not designed to be used in embedded systems. It is mostly for desctop PC's with some fancy IO board (like from National Instruments)
09:23 < DeeKey> rxr: BTW, I have reinstalled the system on the reisefs with noatime and the second, I dont remember for now option... In my humble oppinion the system is running faster then previously...
09:23 < DeeKey> and I think like I am going to migrate from gnome to KDE :)
09:27 < rxr> :-)
09:28 < rxr> DeeKey: I really have the impression that uclibc should have nearbyint if you built uclibc with this MATH_C99 or so config option
09:28 < rxr> are you sure you tried that ?
09:29 < DeeKey> MATH_C99 is enebled by deafult. Nearbyint is present, but it looks like it is not written...
09:29 < rxr> oh
09:30 < DeeKey> Anyway it is not a big deal to switch librries in t2!
09:30 < rxr> yeah ._)
09:31 < rxr> DeeKey: is there a big reasion why you updated busybox to the 1.7 unstable version ?
09:32 < DeeKey> is it unstale? .... No, I dont have any serious reasons, just tested how it works...
09:32 < rxr> ok - so I drop that part of the merge for now ?
09:32 < DeeKey> So leave the stable one
09:33 < rxr> well - I also only noticed because I said to susan she can skip the busybox update from the udpate mails as I noticed it in the rtai branch and she said "hu? it's unstable anyway" :-)
09:36 < CIA-24> rene * r25792 /trunk/ (26 files in 9 dirs): * merged rtai branch
09:37 < CIA-24> rene * r25793 /branches/rtai/: * removed rtai branch, merged back into trunk
09:44 < rxr> heh - ok, now the package matrix is sorted, again: http://www.t2-project.org/packages/
09:46 < DeeKey> sorted? It need to be updated firstly!
09:47 < rxr> hm ?
09:47 < rxr> updated ?
09:47 < DeeKey> rtai 3.2 contrib
09:47 < rxr> or do you mean with the rtai merge ?
09:47 < DeeKey> yes.
09:47 < DeeKey> I thought that it is done automatically....
09:51 < rxr> yes - in the past twice a day
09:51 < rxr> I rewrote it to generate dynamically
09:51 < rxr> but only from the existing svn checkouts that are there for other automated tasks
09:52 < rxr> so - the generation is instantly of up to 4h old checkouts
09:52 < rxr> I changed this now so that all automatics do not svn up themselfs, but have a svn up of the tree's once an hour
09:53 < DeeKey> rxr: what was the minimal functional linux distro you made? (RAM, ROM) and what is the minimal image for, lets say, common embedded system? A friend of mine have asked me about this...
09:53 < rxr> most tiny is 2MB ROM/RAM
09:54 < rxr> dietlibc very tiny stuff
09:54 < rxr> for glibc it is around 6MB compressed (purely minimal)
09:54 < rxr> glibc with mysql (don't ask) is less than 15MB compressed
09:54 < rxr> with k-drive embedded X and firefox it is around little elss than 40MB
09:55 < rxr> most systems are bigger, like 64MB ++
09:55 < rxr> because of more add-on libraries and bigger, historically grown applications etc.
09:55 < rxr> so - update was run
09:56 < rxr> package matrix should reflect the new stuff
09:56 < rxr> the local svn checkouts are now run every full hour
09:56 < DeeKey> I should be more patient next time :)
09:56 < rxr> comedi-driver 0.7.74 scientific
09:56 < rxr> comedi 0.8.0 scientific
09:57 < rxr> rtai 3.5-cv contrib
10:02 < rxr> http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/bash/bash-3.2-patches/bash32-025
10:03 < rxr> now this is insane, not only the 25th "incremental fix" for the current bash version, but the problem itself even more ...
10:06 < rxr> 3.2.25(2)-release
10:06 < rxr> ...
10:07 < CIA-24> rene * r25794 /trunk/package/shells/bash/bash.desc: * updated bash (3.2-17 -> 3.2-25)
10:27 < CIA-24> rene * r25795 /trunk/package/emulators/libvirt/libvirt.desc: * updated libvirt (0.3.0 -> 0.3.2)
10:33 < rxr> DeeKey: see rtai mail on the list :-)
10:34 < DeeKey> on what list?
10:36 < rxr> t2
10:36 < rxr> I answered already
10:36 < rxr> you are subsribed to the t2 list ?
10:36 < DeeKey> i am not in the list...
10:36 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/contact/
10:36 < rxr> http://www.nabble.com/Rtai-Target-tf4333954.html
10:43 < DeeKey> HAHAH I think the merge was just in time!
10:43 < DeeKey> for that user!
10:44 < rxr> maybe go subsribe to the list, it is not even mid-volume yet
10:44 < rxr> but shows the tendency to incrasae a little recently
10:44 < rxr> nearly 100 people on the list, now
10:44 < DeeKey> I have alrady subscribed.
10:44 < rxr> :-)
10:45 < DeeKey> rxr: what about the forum? Are you going to implement it?
10:46 < rxr> maybe run some existing thing on some virtual machine container
10:46 < rxr> DeeKey: do you want to propose something existing ?=
10:47 < DeeKey> PHPBB ? No? there will be the 3rd version soon
10:49 < rxr> I'm not really in forum software, so I have no idea at all
10:49 < DeeKey> http://www.phpbb.com/
10:50 < DeeKey> It is widely used. Open source easy to install.
11:06 < rxr> I think I read some security horror stories about that already
11:06 < rxr> but I'll take a look soon
11:08 < DeeKey> yeh, there were security problems with PHPBB in the past. but still it is the most spread forum :)
11:08 < DeeKey> If you are going to install it on Virt Machine, then there is nothing to fear :)
11:55 < rxr> haha: http://www.osnews.com/1997osnews/oped/11.97/mom.html
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13:58 < rxr> re
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14:03 < DeeKey> hi
14:03 < DeeKey> What is the direction of rotation? http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/b/2/0/51/51876_5149773fbb5a.gif
14:07 < rxr> hm ?
14:08 < DeeKey> thleft or right?
14:08 < rxr> right
14:08 < DeeKey> show it to other people!
14:08 < rxr> clockwise
14:08 < DeeKey> everyone?
14:08 < rxr> -90°
14:08 < rxr> DeeKey: what dou you think =
14:08 < DeeKey> ?
14:09 < rxr> s/=/?/
14:09 < DeeKey> s/=/?/ What is that?
14:09 < rxr> sed expressino :-)
14:09 < rxr> substitute = with ? in my sentence above ...
14:09 < rxr> what do you wanna know ?
14:10 < DeeKey> Actually the direction of rotation can be changed!
14:10 < DeeKey> *magically*
14:10 < DeeKey> just show it to other people!
14:10 < DeeKey> and ask them what do they think about direction :)
14:14 < rxr> some people mix up left vs. right, yes
14:14 < DeeKey> HAHAH
14:14 < DeeKey> that is an illusion :)
14:15 < DeeKey> I can see it rotationg in both directions...
14:15 < DeeKey> Try to watch firtly at the right bottom and later at the middle left.
14:15 < DeeKey> Just a funny thing :)
14:23 < rxr> heh
14:23 < sepp> clockwise
14:24 < sepp> moin :)
14:25 < rxr> moin moin sepp
14:25 < sepp> hi rxr
14:40 < write_erase> rxr you bought a openmoko phone ?
14:46 < rxr> yes
14:47 < rxr> write_erase: why do you ask :-) ?
14:50 < write_erase> I'd like to know how long it takes to get it .
14:50 < write_erase> delivery / shipping .
14:52 < rxr> I think the current prototype bulk is already sold out
14:53 < rxr> for us it also took long as we ordered quite early but the initial prototype run needed some handling and shipment infrastructure to be set up
14:53 < rxr> the GPS can also not be used yet, and the batterylife sucks right now as well
14:54 < rxr> and the orig. OpenMoko software sucks, too, majorly
14:54 < rxr> nothing really works yet
14:54 < rxr> (we only use it for T2 related mobile phone platform development, ...)
14:54 < rxr> http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:mfso9QjeKh0J:rene.rebe.name/2007/08/+neo1973+Rene+Rebe&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1
14:54 < sepp> you can dial when you ssh in :p
14:54 < rxr> ^- my blog server is down right now ...
14:54 < rxr> sepp: right ...
14:54 < rxr> sepp: after loading audio settings over ssh and alsactl restore ...
14:55 < rxr> and if you have luck to have an old SIM cards that is compatbile ...
14:55 < sepp> it is a true geek phone, you need a cs degree to make a phone call
14:55 < rxr> good for us (T2 / ExactCODE) if they are that slow to get a leap ahead ...
14:56 < rxr> sepp: when all goes well (I can not help coding, I do other stuff right now) we'll be able to show T2 with Evas on the IFA
14:56 < rxr> including graphical dialing ...
14:57 < sepp> :)
14:57 < rxr> (including a line in some init script to load the ALSA mixer settings ... *evil grin*)
14:57 < rxr> but - well - actually the first version will aready have a graphical volume slider ...
14:58 < rxr> after all that are just 10 lines of C++ or Lua code :-)
15:00 < sepp> you like lua?
15:00 < rxr> partially .-)
15:01 < rxr> we'll see how our Xvas (eXact canvas stuff with lua bindings work out)
15:01 < CIA-24> rene * r25796 /trunk/scripts/config.in:
15:01 < CIA-24> * improved scripts/config.in to allow all package selection
15:01 < CIA-24> "techniques" at-a-time, as there is no reason qhy we should
15:01 < CIA-24> artificially limit this. En contraire, it allows targets to
15:01 < rxr> lua is tiny, fast and clean
15:01 < CIA-24> use a pkgsel for the selection and a pkgsel.sed to tweak
15:01 < CIA-24> build stages, ...
15:01 < rxr> C++ is good for low level stuff, but it is not so good for dynamically changing stuff, such as UI widget connections
15:01 < kic-> re
15:01 < rxr> Adobe also used the ObjC + Lua hybrid in Lightroom to combine the best of both worlds
15:01 < rxr> we investigate if it works out for us as well
15:02 < rxr> hi kic-
15:03 < CIA-24> rene * r25797 /trunk/target/rtbt/ (7 files in 3 dirs): * more implementation and cleanup for the rtbt target (used to test the new initrd output)
15:04 < sepp> hi kic-
15:06 < rxr> write_erase: the GPS of the OpenMoko can not be sued to deduce coordinates, yet
15:06 < rxr> as the protocol is still under reverse engineering AFAIHS
15:07 < rxr> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS
15:08 < rxr> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead/Protocol
15:09 < write_erase> wow... So It' not worth spending the money for this device yet .
15:09 < rxr> maybe you can not get new ones right nwo anyway
15:09 < write_erase> I'll buy some HTC device until neo is ready .
15:09 < rxr> the GTA01 was just hte prototype thing
15:09 < rxr> they produce GTA02 I think now to sell "soon"
15:10 < rxr> that will also include a 3D accel chip, and WLAN
15:10 < write_erase> That'll be nice .
15:10 < rxr> oh and accelerometers and what was the other thing?
15:10 < rxr> whatever
15:10 < write_erase> In fact, I realy enjoy the 640x480 display
15:10 < write_erase> Is the LCD nice ?
15:10 < rxr> if you do not need something urgently I would wait for GTA02 instead of an HTC thing
15:11 < rxr> the HTC thing never will run your own linux ...
15:11 < write_erase> R U sure ?
15:11 < rxr> well - the display on the Neo is not perfect IMHO
15:11 < rxr> it is quite high-resolution, but you it is quite small
15:12 < rxr> so you can not use it to render web pages and UI elements in a great way
15:12 < rxr> it just delivers fine details, and that's it
15:12 < rxr> also not that good for finger based UI stuff ...
15:12 < rxr> you quickly need a pen if you include fine elements
15:12 < rxr> and the Neo does not even contain a pen holder ...
15:13 < write_erase> Neo Touchscreen ?
15:13 < rxr> yes touchscreen
15:13 < write_erase> Neo has Touchscreen ?
15:13 < rxr> but a normal one
15:13 < rxr> not a freaky near field one as the iPhone
15:13 < rxr> that means you need to press, not like the iPhone where you do not need to touch the scren ....
15:13 < write_erase> ok ... without pen holder ... and not multipoint TS i guess .
15:13 < rxr> yeah - multipoint neither
15:14 < rxr> amd mp ca,era
15:14 < write_erase> http://www.advogato.org/article/866.html
15:15 < rxr> yeah - but it is even more difficult to get LInux onto them as it is on getting it functional on the Neo
15:17 < write_erase> sure .
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15:44 < DeeKey> HAHA :) One more funny project. I have already posted about FAB@home
15:44 < DeeKey> the aim of reprap project is to create self replicating tooling machine. It will not only print, drill, cut or whatever but will also duplicate itself :)
15:44 < DeeKey> http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/RepRapOneDarwin#Printing_in_3D
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18:04 < rxr> 17:58 < don-o> reading the software testing page, its pretty funny to see people excited that outbound calls work some of
18:04 < rxr> the time.
18:04 < rxr> 17:58 < hhf423> don-o: start learning to be happy about the small things in live. :-)
18:04 < rxr> ...
19:04 < Ragnar|away> lol
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19:05 < LMJ> moin
19:05 < Ragnarin> moin moin
19:06 < rxr> moin moin LMJ and Ragnarin
19:06 < LMJ> dude, the weather is so hot here
19:06 < rxr> (it's so cld in berlin ...)
19:07 < rxr> cold even
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19:27 < CIA-24> rene * r25798 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnomesu/ (features.patch password-label.patch):
19:27 < CIA-24> * further patched gnomesu to allow command line based password label
19:27 < CIA-24> layouting, cleaned spaced in the other feature patch
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21:17 < sepp> moin :)
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22:33 < itsu> good evening to ya all
22:34 < sepp> good evening itsu
22:35 < itsu> i just updated via svn
22:35 < itsu> but rebuilding my broken package openvpn did not work
22:36 < itsu> so i had to cleanup -build
22:36 < sepp> no
22:36 < itsu> maybe anyone can help me with this
22:36 < sepp> default option is to skip rebuilding broken packages
22:36 < itsu> if i have working build with some packages failed
22:36 < itsu> ah...
22:36 < sepp> there is a Config option to change that
22:36 < itsu> i had to change that in the config
22:36 < itsu> thanx mate !
22:37 < itsu> ill correct it
22:37 < itsu> so i only rebuild the broken/update packages :-)
22:37 < sepp> or you run './scripts/Create-ErrList -cfg foo -remove packagexyz'
22:38 < itsu> cool,
22:38 < itsu> i really like t2
22:52 < sepp> :)
22:52 < sepp> just ask before removing the entire build ;-)
23:36 < itsu> roger
23:37 < itsu> good night , good fight ;-)
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 28 00:00:13 2007