--- Log opened Sat May 12 00:00:38 2007
02:00 -!- mtr_ [n=Michael@kobz-590ca8a0.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #t2
02:17 -!- mtr [n=Michael@kobz-590cbef6.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:17 -!- mtr_ is now known as mtr
07:55 -!- Capey [n=mipe@a88-113-93-30.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #t2
08:59 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
09:00 < misl> hi folks
09:04 < Capey> hi misl
09:07 < misl> hi Capey :)
10:12 < rxr> re
10:12 < rxr> moin Capey and misl 
10:30 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:32 [Users #t2]
10:32 [@ChanServ] [ CIA-9 ] [ LMJ     ] [ rxr  ] [ TobiX_  ] 
10:32 [ BusError] [ Dallur] [ mtr     ] [ sepp ] [ valentin] 
10:32 [ Capey   ] [ idealm] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz] 
10:32 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
10:32 < CIA-9> rene * r24030 /trunk/package/graphic/dcraw/dcraw.desc: * fixed dcraw checksum as the author replaced the file
10:40 < sepp> moin :)
10:41 < CIA-9> susan * r24031 /trunk/package/network/nginx/nginx.desc: * updated nginx (0.5.19 -> 0.5.20)
10:41 < CIA-9> susan * r24032 /trunk/package/develop/git/git.desc: * updated git (1.5.1.3 -> 1.5.1.4)
10:42 < CIA-9> susan * r24033 /trunk/package/develop/uncrustify/uncrustify.desc: * updated uncrustify (0.33 -> 0.34)
10:42 < CIA-9> susan * r24034 /trunk/package/base/gperf/gperf.desc: * updated gperf (3.0.2 -> 3.0.3)
10:43 < rxr> moin sepp 
10:43 < sepp> hi rxr :)
10:54 < CIA-9> susan * r24035 /trunk/package/security/gnupg2/gnupg2.desc: * updated gnupg2 (2.0.3 -> 2.0.4)
10:59 < CIA-9> susan * r24036 /trunk/package/graphic/gpl-ghostscript/gpl-ghostscript.desc: * updated gpl-ghostscript (8.56 -> 8.57)
11:02 < CIA-9> susan * r24037 /trunk/package/filesystem/udev/udev.desc: * updated udev (110 -> 111)
11:12 -!- tri [n=tri@pD9EE164E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
11:12 < tri> hi
11:13 < rxr> moin tri 
11:13 [Users #t2]
11:13 [@ChanServ] [ CIA-9 ] [ LMJ     ] [ rxr  ] [ TobiX_  ] 
11:13 [ BusError] [ Dallur] [ mtr     ] [ sepp ] [ tri     ] 
11:13 [ Capey   ] [ idealm] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz] [ valentin] 
11:13 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
11:14 < CIA-9> rene * r24038 /trunk/package/network/wavemon/ (linux-header.patch wavemon.desc): * fixed wavemon for latest linux-headers
11:16 < tri> how can i install t2 from the 6.0-stable cd ?
11:16 < rxr> 6.0.3 is a minimal live demo
11:16 < rxr> you want a desktop, right?
11:16 < tri> right
11:17 < rxr> then take the 6.0.0 it was a classic desktop with normal text install
11:17 < tri> do i need both cds
11:17 < Stelz> or 6.0.1 AFAIK
11:17 < rxr> tri: yes, noth
11:18 < rxr> 6.0.1 was a minimal text install flavour
11:18 < Stelz> uh
11:18 < rxr> it does not contain too many GUI applications
11:18 < rxr> tri: t2 can build so many Linux (and soon other kernel) system flavours that we release every bugfix release as another target
11:19 < rxr> to fill the mirrors with many different flavours the people can pick
11:19 < CIA-9> rene * r24039 /trunk/package/network/howl/linux-header.patch: * fixed howl for latest linux-headers, likewise
11:19 < tri> i can follow this http://t2-project.org/documentation/installintro.html after booting the 6.0.0 cds ?
11:21 < rxr> yes
11:21 < rxr> this installintro is for text installers
11:21 < rxr> that applies to 6.0.0 and 6.0.1
11:21 < rxr> 6.0.0 is a desktop with kde and such, 6.0.1 a more minimal system
11:22 < tri> ah ok so i choose 6.0.1 
11:22 < rxr> 6.0.1 might not even have X
11:23 < rxr> you want some graphic apps, don't you ?
11:23 < tri> yes, sometimes
11:23 < tri> but can't i "emerge" X after installing ?
11:26 < CIA-9> rene * r24040 /trunk/target/desktop/pkgsel: 
11:26 < CIA-9> * removed ekiga related packages from the desktop target, as ekiga
11:26 < CIA-9>  now even needs evolution-data-server!
11:26 < rxr> yes, but this will take some time :-)
11:26 < rxr> if you have DSL or so (you where in .de, right) just grab the 6.0.0, it will really make your life easier :-)
11:27 < tri> or could i use my installed linux to build t2 my self (http://t2-project.org/documentation/buildintro.html) ?
11:27 < rxr> yes
11:28 < tri> i try this - it might be boring to just use the 6.0.0 text installers
11:29 < tri> should i use the current trunk ?
11:30 < rxr> depending if you want the latest greated and ready to hunt down bug, or a stable, more tested "used in production" release series
11:30 < rxr> I usually recomment the stable tree for newcomers
11:32 < rxr> soo - puh, finally down to "just" 481 mails with 123 unread in my t2-updates mail folder :-)
11:37 < tri> i need to be root to build t2 ?
11:37 < rxr> yes
11:40 < tri> what does "basic desktop" main at the target selection ? kde
11:42 < rxr> you mean the preselection templates of the generic target?
11:42 < tri> yes
11:43 < rxr> it means only the base libs of gnome and kde and firefox
11:43 < rxr> just the very basics to have a function X people can select their additional stuff on-top
11:43 < rxr> if you want a kde desktop build the desktop target
11:43 < tri> ah ok
11:44 < CIA-9> rene * r24041 /trunk/package/base/raidtools/largefile.patch: 
11:44 < CIA-9> * fixed raidtools to build with latest linux-header and glibc again
11:44 < CIA-9>  (use lseek and not a custom syscall)
11:44 < tri> what does tmpfs for building packages mean
11:46 < rxr> to place the intermediate source and object files in a tmpfs (ram fs)
11:46 < tri> hm dowloading the sources maz take a while...
11:46 < rxr> this can consume hunderds of MB of RAM but also speed up the build a bit
11:46 < tri> thx
11:46 < rxr> if you are "always-on" you can skip the Download -required part
11:47 < rxr> Build-Target will fetch on-the-fly
11:47 < tri> ah ok nice
11:47 < rxr> isn't that written in the quick build intro on the homepage ?
11:47 < tri> right i missed that sorrz
11:48 < tri> sorry
11:48 < rxr> no problem
11:49 < rxr> if you find something missing in the homepage or handbook docu or even the T2 Config system and so please let us know to fix it permanently
11:49 < CIA-9> rene * r24042 /trunk/package/filesystem/zfs-fuse/zfs-fuse.conf: 
11:49 < CIA-9> * removed -Werror during zfs-fuse compilation - with new c libraries
11:49 < CIA-9>  and gcc (e.g. 4.2) there are some stray warnings that we do not
11:49 < CIA-9>  want to abort the build
11:50 < tri> wups: "a full desktop build takes about a day"
11:58 < rxr> (on a 360MHz UltraSPARC it takes over a week :-)
11:58 < CIA-9> rene * r24043 /trunk/package/filesystem/zfs-fuse/zfs-fuse.desc: * updated zfs-fuse (0.4.0_alpha1 -> 0.4.0_beta1)
12:24 < CIA-9> rene * r24044 /trunk/package/base/binutils/binutils.desc: * updated binutils (2.17.50.0.15 -> 2.17.50.0.16)
12:28 < CIA-9> rene * r24045 /trunk/package/filesystem/zfs-fuse/zfs-fuse.desc: * updated zfs-fuse Status tag from Alpha to Beta, likewise
12:33 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has joined #t2
12:33 < nowYY> hi all
12:33 < Stelz> heya
12:33 < nowYY> the kde-mini-livecd is finished without big problems!
12:34 < nowYY> whats the default root passwort?
12:34 < rxr> kde-mini-livecd ?
12:34 < nowYY> yeah
12:34 < rxr> didn't I delete that 24 hours ago ...
12:35 < rxr> or did you build the desktop ?
12:35 < nowYY> rxr well i checked it out before that :)
12:35 < rxr> you complained it did not build and I removed it :_)
12:35 < nowYY> rxr well this time it is built
12:35 < rxr> heh lol
12:35 < nowYY> so far all seems to be ok
12:36 < rxr> the concept of the desktop is to not have any password, so noone can rmeote login with a known default password
12:36 < rxr> and allow to run root stuff via sudo
12:36 < rxr> however the mini-kde-live thing might not setup auto-login and sudo
12:36 < rxr> does it ?
12:36 < nowYY> rxr ok whats the name of the sudoer and his password :)
12:36 < nowYY> rxr i m testin it on virtualbox.. 
12:37 < rxr> the desktop default user is live
12:37 < nowYY> and xserver didnt start
12:37 < rxr> I really do not remember what I quickly setup for the mini-live in IRC at that time
12:37 < rxr> maybe you want to build the real desktop?
12:37 < nowYY> i see
12:37 < rxr> there all should be set up fine
12:37 < rxr> nowYY: btw. is virtualbox fast?
12:38 < rxr> I only have x86-64 here do I could not test it yet?
12:38 < rxr> what graphic does it emulate? cirrus like qemu ?
12:38 < nowYY> rxr as fast as vmware i d say
12:38 < rxr> im, interested, as qemu qith either kqemu or kvm is still a bit sloppy
12:39 < nowYY> i dont no much about it, i just use it, coz its free
12:39 < nowYY> and its german software :)
12:39 < rxr> :-)
12:39 < rxr> well they forked qemu and hacked it up :-)
12:39 < rxr> more or less
12:39 < nowYY> yeah bochs hacking..
12:39 < rxr> it emulates a Cirrus card?
12:39 < nowYY> dont kno sry
12:40 < rxr> ok - I'll give it a look when my trunk 32bit livecd finished in some hours
12:40 < rxr> (with gcc-4.2 :-)
12:40 -!- d-marc [n=d-marc@HSI-KBW-091-089-001-012.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #t2
12:40 < rxr> hi d-marc 
12:40 < nowYY> rxr cool, u kno i build only livecd's coz i can test them easier with virtualbox..
12:42 < rxr> sure :-)
12:42 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:42 < rxr> so - need another screwdriver and lunch - cu later
12:43 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has joined #t2
12:43 < nowYY> rxr if u use virtualbox, dont use fullscreen, its buggy
12:44 < tri> how are binary only software like skye handeld in t2 ?
12:47 < nowYY> well ppl dont like binary only software :)
12:48 < tri> i also dont like it 
12:48 < nowYY> so dont support it :)
12:50 < tri> hm that would be to simple... a lot of my contacts use for example skype and there is no free alternative software
12:51 < tri> thats why i need this f* software
12:51 < nowYY> i see
12:52 < nowYY> how about http://www.openwengo.org/ ?
12:55 < tri> ok sounds quite intressting but it is always pain to introduce "win only people" to a new software...
12:56 < tri> and there might be other binary only software like flash etc.
12:58 < d-marc> hi everyone
12:58 < tri> hi d-marc
12:59 < sepp> there are nvidia, opera and vmware packages and they are not free either ...
13:00 < tri> thx i'm just looking at there desc files
13:01 < tri> err conf files
13:06 < Capey> usually its just unpacking the tarball and copy the needed files to root
13:06 < Capey> in package.conf
13:07 -!- Capey [n=mipe@a88-113-93-30.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
13:09 < nowYY> sepp well ppl dont need any of them
13:14 < sepp> ppl want accelerated opengl 
13:24 < nowYY> they want, but they dont need :)
13:43 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
13:49 < nowYY> tschö
13:49 -!- nowYY [n=nowYY@213.144.157.75] has quit ["savIRC - The Cross-Platform IRC Client"]
15:46 < rxr> re
16:13 < rxr> currently we have no skype package, but we could add one
16:14 < rxr> I guess soe far most people just install the binary as it for local use
16:16 -!- pdinoto [n=pdinoto@host42.190-31-207.telecom.net.ar] has joined #t2
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17:13 < rxr> livecd comes up properly, the one built with gcc-4.2-rc3
17:13 < rxr> impressed
17:13 < rxr> no real regressions in the compiler so far
17:23 -!- TobiX_ is now known as TobiX
17:33 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
17:48 < pdinoto> hi rxr!
17:49 < pdinoto> I'm glad livecd is building ok.
18:08 [Users #t2]
18:08 [@ChanServ] [ d-marc] [ LMJ ] [ pdinoto ] [ sepp ] [ tri     ] 
18:08 [ BusError] [ Dallur] [ misl] [ R4gnar0k] [ Stelz] [ valentin] 
18:08 [ CIA-9   ] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ rxr     ] [ TobiX] 
18:08 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
18:09 -!- d-marc [n=d-marc@HSI-KBW-091-089-001-012.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit ["KVIrc 3.2.4 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/"]
18:17 < tri> re
18:17 < tri> building finished...
18:29 < CIA-9> rene * r24046 /trunk/package/base/gcc/ (7 files): * updated gcc (4.1.2 -> 4.2.0-20070501)
18:31 < CIA-9> rene * r24047 /trunk/package/base/ (glibc/glibc.desc glibc32/glibc32.desc): 
18:31 < CIA-9> * updated glibc (20061002 -> 2.5)
18:31 < CIA-9> * updated glibc32 (20061002 -> 2.5)
18:32 < tri> what is the diffrent between 2nd_stage and 2nd_stage_small ?
18:32 < rxr> _small is very much stripped down
18:32 < rxr> for low-end, old systems
18:32 < rxr> not too confortable to install from
18:32 < rxr> (and apparently not much tested these days anymore)
18:33 < tri> thx
19:00 < tri> i normaly use encrypted root filesystem with dm-crypt is there support for this
19:00 < tri> in stone 
19:01 < tri> or the initrd
19:06 < rxr> patches would be very welcome
19:06 < rxr> we probably should add some modular initrd extension
19:07 < rxr> like /lib/initrd/ or so
19:07 < rxr> so that mkinitd copies /lib/initrd/ files into the initrd as well and runs them in alphabetical order
19:07 < rxr> so that those scripts can do whatever they want after the initial /dev population
19:07 < rxr> like raid or crypto setup
19:18 < tri> there is also no raid support right now ?
19:19 < tri> how is the initrd done ?
19:20 < tri> ah page 67 :-)
19:26 < rxr> heh, the initrd is not described in-depth yet
19:34 < pdinoto> rxr, what are the changes between t-resc 0.5 from 19-jan
19:35 < pdinoto> and what I would get by building my own?
19:35 < pdinoto> (in terms of structural changes, not package versions, I mean)
19:35 < rxr> no structural changes AFAIR
19:37 < pdinoto> ok then, so I will continue my work with that version
19:37 < pdinoto> until I can build my own.
19:37 < pdinoto> thanks!
19:40 < pdinoto> one quick question: the t-resc system boot and mount process
19:40 < pdinoto> is like this?
19:40 < pdinoto> - boot with an initrd, exec /init from there which finds
19:40 < pdinoto> the live source (CD in this case)
19:40 < rxr> yes
19:41 < pdinoto> and executes /init2 always from initrd.
19:41 < rxr> initrd is the normal T2 initrd
19:41 < rxr> yes
19:41 < rxr> and then t-resc comes with minit
19:41 < rxr> to be confiugured in /etc/minit/
19:41 < pdinoto> ah, ok. t2-resc is different from that point on, right?
19:41 < rxr> yes
19:42 < pdinoto> minit instead of full-blown init.
19:42 < pdinoto> thanks.
19:42 < rxr> after the init2 finished to setup unionfs/aufs the /sbin/init that is executed is minit
19:43 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/packages/minit.html
19:43 < pdinoto> ok, I see.
19:43 < pdinoto> thanks, sure more questions will follow... :-)
19:43 < rxr> you're welcome
20:08 < tri> just to be sure is initrd or initramfs used in t2 ?
20:10 < rxr> initramfs
20:12 < tri> mkinitcpio maybe nice to create the initramfs
20:16 < rxr> what is it doing?
20:16 < rxr> we are quite happy with just using cpio right now
20:16 < rxr> :q!
20:16 < tri> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Mkinitcpio
20:16 < rxr> sorry wrong window
20:17 < tri> i also love vi ;-)
20:17 < tri> mkinitcpio can create the initramfs based on the provided conf file
20:17 < rxr> hm - we have many features of it already
20:17 < tri> it is nice and simple
20:18 < tri> who is the initrd created in t2 - with stone ?
20:18 < rxr> nope
20:18 < rxr> we have an mkinitrd package, that in fact is just a very simple shell script
20:18 < rxr> you run mkintrd as usual
20:19 < rxr> it inejcts all reasonable modules like ide,sata,scsi,net as well as udev etc.
20:19 < rxr> mkinitrd is also executed for any kernel build
20:19 < rxr> so when you build a default "all modular" T2 kernel you have a fresh initrd already
20:19 < tri> everything is included by default in the initrd ?
20:20 < tri> who to configure the "reasonable modules" ?
20:21 < tri> aha ok i think i found it http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/package/base/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.sh
20:22 < rxr> we should add some -scsi -ide or whatever options, probably
20:26 < tri> these are the build in modules right now: http://rafb.net/p/XatGkd25.html - right ?
20:27 < rxr> yes
20:31 < tri> but there a no plans to change the initrd creation etc. this time ?
20:32 < tri> so for dm-crypt support it would be better to patch the present scripts
20:33 < rxr> instead of pulling another distro's thing I would rather gradually improve the t2 ones
20:33 < rxr> that will also likely cause less regressions
20:34 < rxr> e.g. 1. allow changing the module pattern, either from config or command line
20:34 < rxr> with predefined ones like -ide -scsi and custom regex
20:34 < rxr> 2. add some hook concept to allow raid and crypt to insert code
20:39 < tri> just for reference http://phraktured.net/initramfs/mkinitcpio/
20:51 < pdinoto> rxr, still there?
20:52 < rxr> sure
20:54 < CIA-9> lars * r24048 /trunk/package/filesystem/udev/50-udev.rules: (log message trimmed)
20:54 < CIA-9> * replacing %e (not supported any more) by %n as in rev r23990
20:54 < CIA-9>  is not a clean solution for all devices types since %n is not
20:54 < CIA-9>  necessarily unique. It seems that there is no adequate
20:54 < CIA-9>  builtin replacement of %e in recent udev. Since nowadays there
20:54 < CIA-9>  it HAL and the usage of symlinks for identification of devices
20:54 < CIA-9>  types is deprecated we create only a single unnumbered
20:56 < rxr> pdinoto: ?
21:07 -!- sepp_ [n=sepp@p213.54.182.41.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
21:14 [Users #t2]
21:14 [@ChanServ] [ Dallur] [ misl   ] [ R4gnar0k] [ sepp_] [ tri     ] 
21:14 [ BusError] [ idealm] [ mtr    ] [ rxr     ] [ Stelz] [ valentin] 
21:14 [ CIA-9   ] [ LMJ   ] [ pdinoto] [ sepp    ] [ TobiX] 
21:14 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
21:26 -!- sepp [n=sepp@p85.212.22.83.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:45 -!- pdinoto [n=pdinoto@host42.190-31-207.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:50 < rxr> ok, we leave the office, cu then
23:15 < tri> re
23:20 < tri> should i use rockplug or hwscan ?
23:27 < tri> jipy my own builed t2 from the svn trunk is up and running :-)
23:27 < tri> that was a simple one...
23:41 < tri> gn8
23:41 -!- tri [n=tri@pD9EE164E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
--- Log closed Sun May 13 00:00:40 2007