T2 IRC Log: 2006-11-11

This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.

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--- Log opened Sat Nov 11 00:00:27 2006
04:35 -!- idealm [n=ideal@218.82.58.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
04:54 -!- idealm [n=ideal@218.82.58.130] has joined #t2
08:06 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
08:07 < misl> hi folks
08:17 < mtr> moin misl
08:17 < misl> hi mtr
08:46 < emte> moo
08:59 < sepp> quack
09:34 < rxr> moin
10:10 < rxr> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/10/2336218&from=rss
10:11 < rxr> ^- "Dana Blankenhorn bluntly states a reality that many have known: 'The war is over and Linux won'. With Oracle and Microsoft putting Linux in the spotlight and positioning themselves to grow with Linux. 'A new report shows that 83% of companies expect to support new workloads on Linux against 23% for Windows. ... Over two-thirds of the respondents said they will increase their use of Linux in the next year, and almost no one said the opposite.'"
10:20 < CIA-5> rene * r20799 /trunk/package/graphic/scribus/scribus.desc: * updated scribus (1.3.3.4 -> 1.3.3.5)
10:29 < CIA-5> rene * r20800 /trunk/package/develop/git/git.desc: * updated git (1.4.3.3 -> 1.4.3.4)
10:29 < CIA-5> rene * r20801 /trunk/package/archiver/upx/upx.desc: * updated upx (2.02 -> 2.03)
10:33 -!- mtr_ [n=Michael@pD9E12746.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #t2
10:37 < rxr> moin mtr_
10:37 [Users #t2]
10:37 [@ChanServ] [ capey] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ sepp ] [ zod]
10:37 [ _Ragnar_] [ CIA-5] [ LMJ ] [ mtr_] [ Stelz ]
10:37 [ Baldzius] [ emte ] [ misl ] [ rxr ] [ valentin]
10:37 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 16 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
10:42 -!- mtr [n=Michael@pD9E12CC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
10:42 -!- mtr_ is now known as mtr
10:43 < CIA-5> rene * r20802 /trunk/package/security/gnutls/gnutls.desc: * updated gnutls (1.4.4 -> 1.4.5)
11:25 -!- sepp_ [n=sepp@p83.129.198.67.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
11:27 [Users #t2]
11:27 [@ChanServ] [ capey] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ sepp_ ] [ zod]
11:27 [ _Ragnar_] [ CIA-5] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ Stelz ]
11:27 [ Baldzius] [ emte ] [ misl ] [ sepp] [ valentin]
11:27 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 16 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 15 normal]
11:29 < rxr> http://bugs.t2-project.org/
11:29 < rxr> ^- go for it :-)
11:29 < rxr> mostly left is tunneling email out of the uni box
11:29 < rxr> (the uni drops all port 25 traffic intentionally since 2 year or so :-()
11:32 < Stelz> fine rxr :)
11:32 < Stelz> moin
11:32 < rxr> mon Stelz
11:32 < rxr> moin even .-)))
11:32 < Stelz> ;-)
11:33 < Stelz> login failed
11:33 < Stelz> hm
11:33 < Stelz> it's not an svn-login?
11:34 < Stelz> uhm rxr
11:34 < Stelz> Notice: Undefined variable: COOKIE in /home/flyspray-t2/scripts/register.php on line 8
11:34 < Stelz> in register form: http://bugs.t2-project.org/register
11:34 < rxr> nope, bug tracker is running a) on another and b) an independant system
11:35 < rxr> maybe you have no cockies enabled in your browser ?
11:35 < Stelz> no
11:35 < Stelz> after i clicked a button
11:35 < Stelz> 2 notices
11:35 < Stelz> Notice: Undefined variable: register_text in /home/flyspray-t2/scripts/modify.php on line 607
11:35 < Stelz> Notice: Undefined index: project_title in /home/flyspray-t2/scripts/modify.php on line 607
11:36 < rxr> indeed
11:36 < rxr> bummer
11:37 < rxr> you know, I did not write that - I just installed and hoped "for the best"
11:37 < rxr> thing is I first tried trac and it did not wanted to work out at all ...
11:37 < Stelz> :)
11:38 < Stelz> when i tried notification by email: there were 3 notices:
11:38 < Stelz> Notice: Undefined variable: register_text in /home/flyspray-t2/scripts/modify.php on line 607
11:38 < Stelz> Notice: Undefined index: project_title in /home/flyspray-t2/scripts/modify.php on line 607
11:38 < Stelz> Notice: Undefined index: flyspray_userid in /home/flyspray-t2/includes/notify.inc.php on line 264
11:38 < rxr> ack - I see the same on a test reg
11:38 < rxr> damn
11:38 < rxr> so what to do - hack it up or wipe it ... ?
11:39 < Stelz> rxr: did u look a mantis?
11:39 < Stelz> new version of it had been released a few days ago
11:40 < Stelz> Mantis is a php/MySQL/web based bugtracking system. Learn more.
11:40 < Stelz> The latest stable version is 1.0.6.
11:40 < Stelz> http://www.mantisbt.org/
11:40 < Stelz> http://www.mantisbt.org/requirements.php
11:42 < rxr> Stelz: did you use it ?
11:43 < Stelz> no, cause i don' need any bug-tracker.. i don' have any 'really-big-prjects-to-track-a-lot-of-bugs' ;-)
11:43 < Stelz> but the distro i used previous time uses it
11:43 < Stelz> i mean.. people.. who created that source-base-distro
11:43 < Stelz> uses mantis
11:44 < rxr> which source based dist was tha tß
11:44 < Stelz> lunar
11:44 < Stelz> thats my previous distro
11:44 < Stelz> rxr: http://bugs.lunar-linux.org/view_all_bug_page.php <- mantis-page ;)
11:46 < rxr> hm
11:46 < rxr> I do not find it that good to follow and read (usability wise) - then I would like trac more
11:47 < rxr> http://trac.edgewall.org/
11:47 < Stelz> hm, ok
11:47 < Stelz> i know, rxr ;-)
11:48 < rxr> http://www.hosted-projects.com/trac/TracDemo/Demo
11:48 < rxr> and we would get a svn browser for free with it
11:48 < rxr> (and a wiki if someone actually would want to use that=
11:48 < rxr> )
11:49 < rxr> however it did not wanted to work out when I tried it yesterday
11:49 -!- sepp [n=sepp@p213.54.138.177.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:53 < rxr> what how good trac traceback looks:
11:53 < rxr> http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/3351
11:56 < Stelz> rxr: what do u think about setting up a forum?
11:56 < rxr> ouhm
11:56 < rxr> does trac has a forum ?
11:56 < Stelz> nopey
11:57 < Stelz> but i know some nice/light/fast forum-engine
11:57 < Stelz> php5/mysql/sqlite based
11:57 < Stelz> very easy to install
11:57 < Stelz> and i have it
11:57 < Stelz> a lot of skins for it etc.
11:59 < rxr> well - thing is with every dynamic code stuff we potentially get more security issues on the servers and I'm not sure if we need it so much
12:00 < rxr> e.g. it just spreads the users over all the available content instead of focusing on a good homepage, handbook, ...
12:00 < rxr> or do you think ao forum is so vital and important ?
12:01 < Stelz> rxr: now we have only one place where we (a-lot-of-new-users?) can discuss some troubles and ask some questions - irc :|
12:02 < rxr> and the mailing list
12:02 < Stelz> of course
12:02 < rxr> Stelz: well - maybe you set it up and we see how it works out ?
12:03 < Stelz> rxr:
12:03 < Stelz> 13:51'48 | Stelz> and i have it
12:03 < Stelz> :)
12:03 < rxr> hm - on my office workstation I get the same trac errors trying to set it up as on the remote server
12:03 < rxr> so it is at least no "remote server f*ckup" or "remote server python* outdateness" ...
12:04 < rxr> (as my office workstation is T2/trunk up-to-data-as-possible :-)
12:06 < rxr> .oO(it appears to be a bug in the T2/trac packag Oo.)
12:07 < Stelz> rxr:
12:07 < Stelz> how T2 'll use soft for openbsd?
12:07 < Stelz> or just T2 == thing for compiling openbsd-kernel ?
12:08 < Stelz> seems to be that openbsd should use its port system or what?
12:11 < CIA-5> rene * r20803 /trunk/package/develop/trac/trac.conf: * removed trac.conf, it breaks everything instead of helping at all
12:22 < rxr> Stelz: well full OpenBSD support would mean that we get another Config entry on the top listing the supported Operating System Kernels and you can chosoe Linux, Minix, OpenBSD
12:22 < rxr> and then you do Build-Target as usual and instead a linux kernel the OpenBSD kernel
12:23 < rxr> and e.g. the OpenBSD LibC is used and so on
12:23 < rxr> T2/OpenBSD means using T2's build system to bulid the entire OpenBSD a-like CD ...
12:23 < Stelz> rxr: but what after installing?
12:23 < rxr> you use the usual T2 stuff
12:23 < Stelz> rxr: but what after installation?
12:23 < rxr> after all it is t2 based then
12:23 < rxr> you Emerge-Pkg something and your new two installer stuff when it is ready
12:24 < Stelz> hm.. i see
12:24 < rxr> of course _not_ the OpenBSD port system - the T2 one
12:24 < Stelz> then i need to dev two with-a-lot-of-kernels-support
12:25 < rxr> nope not all all
12:25 < rxr> it is just package management - nothing kernel dependant
12:26 < Stelz> but some package needs some fixes for some kernels
12:27 < rxr> http://bugs.t2-project.org:443/trac-t2
12:27 < rxr> Stelz: but that is nothing for two
12:27 < rxr> fixes go into t2/trunk/package/*/*/*/ ...
12:27 < rxr> in for of paches or $pkg.conf code
12:27 < Stelz> ahm\
12:44 < rxr> http://trac.edgewall.org/changeset/3163
13:09 < rxr> ok - we most probably go trac then
13:09 < rxr> than
13:09 < rxr> then
13:09 < rxr> well ...
13:10 < rxr> Stelz: maybe you wannt setup your forum for testing ?
13:10 * rxr lunch
13:11 < Stelz> rxr: ?
13:11 < Stelz> at your machine?
13:19 -!- sepp_ is now known as sepp
13:19 < sepp> hello :)
13:22 < Stelz> rehi sepp
13:22 < sepp> hi Stelz
15:41 < rxr> re
15:41 < rxr> Stelz: ouhm
15:41 < rxr> Stelz: I meant on your side
15:41 < Stelz> rxr:
15:41 < rxr> Stelz: or no server at hand?
15:41 < rxr> hi sepp
15:41 [Users #t2]
15:41 [@ChanServ] [ capey] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ Stelz ]
15:41 [ _Ragnar_] [ CIA-5] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ valentin]
15:41 [ Baldzius] [ emte ] [ misl ] [ sepp] [ zod ]
15:41 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
15:41 < Stelz> 13:57'32 | Stelz> 13:51'48 | Stelz> and i have it
15:42 < Stelz> rxr: set up a forum sometimes ago (spring 2006) for our local trance-community
15:42 < Stelz> *i set up
15:42 < Stelz> but i think u won't like that skin :)
15:47 -!- Netsplit leguin.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: @ChanServ
15:56 < sepp> hi rxr
16:48 -!- ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has joined #t2
16:48 -!- ServerMode/#t2 [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
16:58 -!- tadao_ [n=tadao@242-200.dyn-fa.pool.ew.hu] has joined #t2
17:01 < tadao_> Hi T2 , Can i use T2 as an intermediate user to rebuild my favorite live cd (SLAX = 200mb inkl kde in squashfs+union) for via c3 ?
17:08 < rxr> tadao_: you can use T2 to build such a live-cd, yes
17:08 < rxr> but it will not be 100% slax then
17:08 < rxr> it will be T2 KDE+suqshfs+unionfs then ...
17:09 < Stelz> uhu
17:11 < tadao_> rxr : im ok with that , i just need normal users -by package choice slack is perfect -just somehow adduser doesnt work -are there manuals for beginners or only pro-stuff???
17:13 < rxr> tadao_: http://www.t2-project.org/buildintro.html
17:13 < rxr> just choose LiveCD there and do your package selection
17:13 < rxr> should be mostly straight forward
17:17 < tadao_> rxr :saw that ,thanks ,how is kernelconfig /alsaconfig -can i use slax/kanotix configs ? how about xorg.conf xfree86 +unichrome (cle266)?
17:21 < sepp> you can reuse old configs
17:22 < sepp> xorg and unichrome is also working, i had a laptop with one of these cards
17:27 < tadao_> sepp : thanks sepp just have dvb/nova-s with slax running under unichrome with 45-70% load ,would like to rebuild that -thought t2 uses xfree
17:29 < tadao_> and openssl precompiled for use with padlock ; )
17:29 < sepp> that was the via crypto extension?
17:30 < tadao_> as i understand hw cryptoaccelerator in cpu as fast as pIV 40 (forty!!!) in sw-mode
17:31 < tadao_> under openbsd standard in openssl , so very nice for paranoid ssh users -grin
17:32 < sepp> if it is in openssl you can build it somehow from source
17:35 < tadao_> yes iknow - just i thought know that i have now everything on my epia viac3 working i want to make my l" last config" allinone and rebuild it from source
17:45 < tadao_> as lean as possible -for full control , just till now im rather an average user with little indepth-knowledge , so i would like to finally see how the componets are forged together -what is essential and what not
17:46 < tadao_> so what size would me a minimal kde system (inkl k3b and organizer but nothing else) on livecd with squash ?
17:57 < sepp> hmm, well don't know exactly
17:57 < sepp> but it will fit on 1 cd
18:01 < sepp> i have no kde ...
18:02 < tadao_> wowwow toobig -so it depends on the "target"definition -> so howto shrink-redefine target "exact desktop" ... u use fluxbox ?
18:02 < sepp> the desktop livecd has many things on it, iirc even ooo
18:03 < sepp> and 1 cd, so if you remove things - less, but i can not say how much
18:03 < Stelz> tadao_: /me use fluxbox :)
18:05 < rxr> tadao_: it depends how much you strip away - e.g. stuff only neded for software compilation (include files, static libraries, libtool la files, ...)
18:05 < rxr> tadao_: and how many languages you ship ...
18:05 < rxr> you can get a minimal kde far below 100MB if one likes too
18:05 < tadao_> stelz : brave mohican ... i just miss kicker there
18:05 < rxr> I can help shrinking the stuff down here in IRC if you like
18:05 < Stelz> lol
18:05 < tadao_> rxr : oops how this
18:06 < tadao_> want that want that
18:06 < rxr> tadao_: want what? a 100MB KDE LiveCD ?
18:06 < Stelz> lol
18:07 < tadao_> 200 is ok and to ram cheatcode (they call it like this in slax and kanotix to load iso to ram and boot from there
18:11 < tadao_> slax has 190 mb with very simple kde (k3b and Korganizer ) runs like kerosin on my epia ,whiis only a poor little 1000mhz board (with nifty padlock and nicecle266)
18:12 < tadao_> so if you could explain howto get there or point a manual would be perfect ...
18:14 < tadao_> just i would prefer to start small and stay small rather than start with 1 GB and than strip it down
18:16 < tadao_> because i have the pkg list of the system already more or less (from slax ) -when i installed slackware11 on which slax is based i guess -i had already 1,5 GB
18:18 < rxr> the 190MB Slax is the compressed size? Expanded it hould be 800MB or so as well ...
18:19 < rxr> the handbook does not yet cover all the new LiveCD setup details
18:19 < rxr> tadao_: if you like I could commit some minimalkdelivecd target to trunk and you just have to tweak it for your needs ?
18:19 < tadao_> rxr -1yes squash and union like t2 compressed size 190MB
18:20 < tadao_> rxr: ooohh paradise for my two epias
18:20 < tadao_> yes please
18:21 < tadao_> cough cough -eh whats trunk ?
18:23 < rxr> trunk refers to the development tree of most open source projects, especially those using Subversion for version control
18:24 < tadao_> ahh so the red pill ... well how can i get there ...
18:25 < tadao_> sorry subversion yes ...
18:26 < CIA-5> rene * r20804 /trunk/target/archivista/TODO: * wiped most of archivista/TODO
18:26 < rxr> tadao_: http://www.t2-project.org/download.html
18:27 < rxr> svn co http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk t2-trunk
18:30 < rxr> tadao_: I just started to define a minimal-kde-live target
18:30 < rxr> tadao_: just keep hanging out here - I think I can commit some version for you to continue working on by tomorrow
18:31 < tadao_> thanks wow thats a start !!! so i will build my perfect ramdisk workstation with dvb and hwaccelerated ssh wow , curious about the performace with a special c-5 buit system
18:32 < tadao_> sorry "built system "
18:34 < rxr> or we both start buliding now
18:34 < rxr> I just commited the minimal-kde-live target start
18:34 < rxr> so you could start building now while I work on the fine details
18:34 < CIA-5> rene * r20805 /trunk/target/mini-live-kde/ (12 files):
18:34 < CIA-5> * added the start of a minimal-live-kde target for demo purposes
18:34 < CIA-5> by quick cut'n pasting desktop and archivist target bits together
18:37 < tadao_> wow you like your project - well i have to leave my machine for an hour or so now but i opened this t2 interface already ( not svn )so ill start at 20.00 roundabout
18:38 < tadao_> but im a lousy learner -so any way time of halfknowledge is over now , lets build ...c-5 (is my built system too ) will take 4 times longer than athlon 2000 i guess
18:39 < tadao_> this means ... 3-4 days ???? for a built
18:39 < rxr> on that box mayber
18:39 < rxr> I build on my Core Duo MacBook @2GHz, it builds pretty quickly indeed :-)
18:41 < rxr> if you take your minimal-kde plan seriously I would enable ccache while building with T2
18:41 < tadao_> than ill plug in the second epia and just let it run - wowow that? another universe
18:41 < rxr> if you rebuild it in some weeks or much most compiler invocation will be taken out of the cache then
18:42 < tadao_> ... ehm if you say so ... just imagine i would come from republique congolaise
18:43 < tadao_> so i can enable ccache -but i have no clue what it means
18:43 < rxr> ccache is a program to cache compiler output
18:43 < rxr> T2 has integrated it so you just need to enable a ccache option inside T2's scripts/Config
18:44 < rxr> or you don't care for your first build ... and leave it as it is
18:44 < tadao_> good - checkboxes are my world ... still
18:47 < tadao_> wow i found th interesting points : unfortunately under expert menu : custom pkg selection etc realtime ...
18:48 < tadao_> so you meant *create cache files after packages have been built ?
18:48 < rxr> nope
18:49 < rxr> the option I meant is on the very top
18:49 < rxr> "Use compiler cache (ccache) where possible"
18:49 < rxr> btw. best leave the exper section unexpanded and untouched for now :-)
18:49 < rxr> until you finished your first CD :-)
18:52 < tadao_> poor me :(..... which kind of realtime is meantioned there ?
18:53 < tadao_> lsm rtai ???
18:53 < rxr> I guess you meant realtime linux as in RTAI and such
18:53 < rxr> tadao_: it is for hard realtime kind of systems like industrial computing for laser and roboter control ...
18:53 < rxr> normal desktop boxes do not need it
18:54 < rxr> (just industrial controlers, airplanes, atom power plants and the like :-)
18:54 < rxr> nuclear power plant even
18:54 < tadao_> well ... i use emc which uses rtai i guess
18:54 < tadao_> wowowow
18:54 < tadao_> no powerplants
18:54 < tadao_> pleaze
18:55 < tadao_> this lsm would be interesting for connecting switches , relais etc ..
18:56 < CIA-5> rene * r20806 /trunk/package/python/mod_python/ (bash-31.patch mod_python.desc): * updated mod_python (3.1.4 -> 3.2.10)
18:56 < rxr> tadao_: yep for such stuff
18:56 < rxr> tadao_: maybe you give it a try after your minimal-kde-live CD based on T2 ?
18:57 < tadao_> harr harr ok complicated stuff on second run --- so bloody hell with ncurses i even can build remotely wow
18:59 < tadao_> can you some book on how the components of a system work together -not for compscientiss of course -for half witted noobs with sense for fooling around???
19:00 < tadao_> ooops -can you recommend ----
19:03 < rxr> the t2 components ?
19:08 < tadao_> no more general linux -so comparing some 2.0.0 system with 2.6.xy - or how to add usb to a naked system - e.g. whats hotplug - udev difference-an overall view intro for noobs -so looking at linux/bsd like lego
19:08 < rxr> hm - no ide
19:08 < rxr> a
19:08 < rxr> did you see our handbook already?
19:08 < rxr> it does not cover all - but some details
19:09 < rxr> and it is intended to become more and more a T2 build system _and general Linux overview_
19:11 < tadao_> yes good start , interesting to build openbsd like this , i guess mr deraadt ( unfortunately) wouldnt like it
19:11 < tadao_> or to put pf into linux woowowow
19:16 < tadao_> well , anyway thank you so much for the lots of answers - so this evening ill run my first config (after plugging in my other epia) so i?l have my first clean "sourcebox" , no i have to setup svn on slackware -so im back in 90 min roundabout .ciao
19:18 < rxr> you just need to install subversion - no setup needed
19:22 < tadao_> ahh thats good news -i thought this cvs stuff is bloody complicate i never installed it - wow i found it on my slack cd -so here we go
19:22 -!- tadao_ [n=tadao@242-200.dyn-fa.pool.ew.hu] has quit ["Leaving"]
19:26 < rxr> http://bugs.t2-project.org/
19:26 < rxr> have fun guys ...
19:26 [Users #t2]
19:26 [@ChanServ] [ capey] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ Stelz ]
19:26 [ _Ragnar_] [ CIA-5] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ valentin]
19:26 [ Baldzius] [ emte ] [ misl ] [ sepp] [ zod ]
19:26 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
19:29 < Stelz> yeah, rxr :)
19:29 < Stelz> good work
19:31 < Stelz> hmm rxr
19:31 < Stelz> Authentication information not available. Please refer to the installation documentation.
19:31 < Stelz> any idea how to reg?:)
19:36 < rxr> yes yes
19:36 < rxr> ongoing work ...
19:42 < rxr> Stelz: I have to read more trac documentation
19:42 < rxr> for now anaymous user can craete and modify tickets
21:11 < emte> ... you should have pointed tadao_ to the LFS docs
21:12 < emte> wouldnt explaining the different subsystems be beyond the scope of T2?
21:15 < emte> you would sudenly be trying to explain devfs vs udev and how dbus works and why you cant use dbus on 2.4 kernels etc
23:08 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.8/2006102516]"]
--- Log closed Sun Nov 12 00:00:28 2006