--- Log opened Mon Sep 18 00:00:07 2006 01:27 -!- sepp_ [n=sepp@p213.54.141.151.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2 01:40 -!- sepp [n=sepp@p213.54.156.65.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:41 -!- sepp_ is now known as sepp 03:03 * sparc-kly is away: i'm outttttttt 03:03 * sparc-kly is back (gone 00:00:02) 03:09 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.67.239.39] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:23 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has joined #t2 03:28 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 03:28 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has joined #t2 03:33 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:52 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has joined #t2 03:54 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:19 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has joined #t2 04:23 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Read error: 104 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has joined #t2 10:41 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:46 < CIA-20> susan * r19676 /trunk/package/network/whois/whois.desc: * updated whois (4.7.15 -> 4.7.16) 10:58 < CIA-20> susan * r19677 /trunk/package/network/pdnsd/pdnsd.desc: * updated pdnsd (1.2.4 -> 1.2.5) 11:01 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has joined #t2 11:06 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:09 < rxr> moin 11:16 < Stelz> moin rxr ; 11:16 < Stelz> ) 11:26 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has joined #t2 11:33 < rxr> moin idealm 11:33 [Users #t2] 11:33 [@ChanServ ] [ CIA-20] [ mipe] [ sepp ] [ th ] 11:33 [ _Ragnar_ ] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ sparc-kly] [ valentin] 11:33 [ Baldzius_] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ Stelz ] 11:33 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal] 11:34 < Stelz> flyin idealm :) 11:34 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:36 < Stelz> lol 11:54 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has joined #t2 11:54 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:10 < rxr> cu - we are off for lunch 12:15 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has joined #t2 12:15 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:35 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has joined #t2 12:36 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.66.106.154] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:01 -!- idealm [n=ideal@222.67.239.39] has joined #t2 15:47 < Stelz> rxr: ping 15:50 < rxr> poing 15:51 < Stelz> rxr: why we don't have sh1/md5 sums for checking downloaded packages? 15:51 < Stelz> *sha1 15:54 < rxr> because noone thought about that 1998 15:54 < rxr> ,-) 15:54 < Stelz> hm 15:54 < Stelz> i think we need things like this 15:54 < rxr> we could change this today ,-) 15:55 < rxr> well we check with a good old checksum 15:55 < Stelz> to make a function to compare sha1sums 15:55 < Stelz> and add smthng like "[S] sha1sum" to *.desc file 15:55 < rxr> of course this does not stand against people who want to inject you backdoored sources and have enough CPU time to construct a tarball with the identical checksum 15:56 < Stelz> :) 15:56 < rxr> sha1sum of t2 source or the downloaded tar ? 15:56 < Stelz> second one 15:56 < Stelz> sha1sum of every package 15:57 < rxr> well you know that there is the checksum of the download, right ?` 15:57 < valentin> the package cksum is there to avoid accidental errors, not hackers 15:57 < Stelz> yeh, valentin 15:57 < rxr> we could "update" the checksum to sha1 (though it was attacked recently as well) by using this apache password file a-like encoding 15:58 < rxr> prefixing the sum with {sha1} or what it was if it is new-style 15:58 < Stelz> yup 15:58 < Stelz> :) 15:58 < rxr> rene:{SHA}hvfkN/qlp/zhXR3cuerq6jd2Z7g= 15:58 < rxr> this encoding 15:58 < rxr> and don 15:59 < rxr> 't try that hash on my server it was just for test generated on os x .. ,,-) 15:59 < rxr> Re-type new password: 15:59 < rxr> rene:{SHA}hvfkN/qlp/zhXR3cuerq6jd2Z7g= 15:59 < rxr> rene-rebes-computer:~ rene$ 15:59 < Stelz> :) 15:59 < rxr> I think it was of "a" ... ,-) 15:59 < Stelz> rxr: it may be a part of our new "package-system" 16:00 < rxr> ;-) 16:00 < Stelz> so.. we must check sums before extracting packages 16:00 < Stelz> and after downloading of them 16:01 < rxr> we check it at download time right now 16:02 < Stelz> hm. ok 16:02 < Stelz> rxr: why we don't have minimal-iso in precompiled cds? :) 16:03 < rxr> good question ,,-) 16:03 < Stelz> http://osiris.tfh-berlin.de/mirror/t2/stable/6.0.0/ <- only desktops here.. fat desktops :\ 16:03 < rxr> the 6.0.1 will get different release images 16:04 < rxr> like minimal 16:04 < Stelz> 6.0.1 coming soon? 16:04 < rxr> oehm - Baldzius_ ? 16:04 < rxr> well - I think the beginning of october is nice 16:04 < rxr> isn't t2 2 years old on oct 3. or so ? 16:07 < Stelz> maybe 6.1 then? :D 16:08 < Stelz> 6.1.0 i mean 16:08 < rxr> well - no real need, we need to prove the world we are able to deliver step-by-tep stability and security updates and that is what 6.0.1 will be about 16:08 < rxr> and the big changes still need to be done for 7.0 16:09 < rxr> aside - well if someone wants to branch 6.1 with the gnome 2.16 update and maintain that series ... 16:09 < rxr> but that would be quite some workload to do 16:10 < Stelz> yeah.. 16:12 < Stelz> hmm rxr 16:12 < Stelz> 7.0 'll be really in january '07 ? 16:12 < rxr> of course it depends on contribution and collaboration 16:12 < rxr> I hope so, yes. 16:12 < rxr> why do you ask ? 16:13 < Stelz> just interested.. and why we make 6.0.* tags.. when 7.0 is coming soon 16:14 < rxr> ehrm? we worked nearly half an year to stabelize 6.0 16:14 < rxr> it was a bit late, yet, but we also moved 7.0 - I think initially 7.0 was planed for autumn this year 16:15 < Stelz> so 7.0 won't be stable in jan'07 ? 16:15 < rxr> after all we want about 2 major releases per year - about as many as OpenBSD and the like 16:16 < Stelz> hm 16:16 < rxr> well - we plan to release 2 major releases per year, with the progress we made so far - continous releases was the biggest problem at ROCK Linux times and why noone used it 16:16 < rxr> regular half year releases sound quite fine to me 16:16 < Stelz> but why 6.0.1, 6.0.2 and THEN 7.0 :) 16:16 < Stelz> 6.1, 6.2 looks better before 7.0 :) 16:16 < rxr> in 6.0.x only bugfixes, security fixes go into 16:17 < rxr> no new features or updates like gnome 2.14 -> 2.16 16:17 < Stelz> hmm 16:17 < rxr> that is in trunk and goes into the next major release when it is ready 16:17 < rxr> simillar to what you get in OpenBSD for your installed release 16:17 < Stelz> now i see 16:18 < Stelz> to make smthng like 6.1.. we must make a GLOBAL updates 16:18 < Stelz> like gnome, etc. yeh? 16:18 < Stelz> or new features 16:18 < rxr> yep 16:20 < Stelz> hm.. next 16:20 < Stelz> rxr: is there any tool to remove a package? like "t2merge" to add it? 16:21 < Stelz> tool == script 16:21 < rxr> mine -r pkg-name 16:22 < Stelz> so 16:22 < Stelz> mine == our prototype of an our package-system? :) 16:26 < rxr> nope 16:26 < rxr> mine == the old junk we have left over from ROCK Linux times and we want to get rid of as soon as possible 16:26 < Stelz> ah 16:27 < Stelz> so.. we need a real package system.. and del mine 16:27 < Stelz> :) 16:28 < rxr> I propose to be compatible with Slackware and Solaris and very intuitive as well and use pkgadd / pkgdel 16:28 < rxr> These include pkgadd, pkgrm, pkgchk, pkgmk, and pkginfo 16:28 < Stelz> :) 16:29 < rxr> http://ussg.iu.edu/usail/man/solaris/pkgadd.1.html 16:29 < Stelz> yeah 16:29 < Stelz> i know 16:29 < Stelz> there is nobody who devels this for T2? :) 16:30 < rxr> I hope you ,-) 16:30 < Stelz> :) 16:30 < rxr> well - just joking, or me or valentin or mipe, or or or ,-) 16:30 < rxr> the possibilites are endless 16:30 < Stelz> hm, fine 16:30 < rxr> I already did my best so far to remove the mine thing in as many places as possible so far 16:30 < Stelz> i'm interested in it 16:30 < rxr> also T2 no longer uses the special-purpose .gem packages mine use over at ROCK Linux 16:31 < rxr> our mine is already patched to a) do not segfault all the time 16:31 < rxr> and b) use tar with any compressor filter such as bzip2, gzip, lzo 16:31 < rxr> I find this already quite a progress 16:31 < Stelz> and maybe i'll try to devel smthng :) 16:31 < rxr> removing it entirely is the next step - for 7.0 ,-) 16:31 < Stelz> :) 16:31 < Stelz> nice 16:32 < Stelz> so.. with 7.0.. we *MUST* advertise our package system :) 16:32 < Stelz> gigi 16:32 < rxr> yes - and that as standard compliant 16:32 < rxr> otherwise the people will headshake why the word needs yet another packaging system 16:32 < Stelz> ye 16:32 < rxr> that is also why we quickly dropped ROCK's .gem in favour of "everyone knows and can use them" tarballs 16:33 < Stelz> then.. we 'll not need scripts t2merge ? 16:33 < Stelz> *script 16:33 < rxr> and in fact ROCK Linux around up to 1.4 _even had_ !!! pkg{add,del,...} 16:33 < Stelz> if we 'll have *REAL* pkg-system 16:34 < Stelz> hm. i'll try to work at it 16:34 < Stelz> i'll collect some info about *ALL* pkg-systems :) 16:35 < Stelz> and 'll try to make a hybrid from them for T2 16:36 < Stelz> pkg-db updates only by svn, yeah? so we need subversion installed by default 16:37 < Stelz> i look at the moonbase, a package-system for some source-linux-distro 16:37 < Stelz> nice one 16:38 < Stelz> so.. about ours :) it maybe a lot of scripts.. like t2add, t2del, t2nfo, etc. 16:39 < Stelz> or maybe one - t2. with options "-del", "-add", etc. 16:39 < Stelz> more cpmpact and useful i think 16:39 < Stelz> *compact 16:40 < Stelz> something like "t2 add perl" to install it, "t2 del perl" to remove it, "t2 info perl" to view some info about it, etc. 16:41 < rxr> I would not name them t2* 16:41 < Stelz> mm.. ok 16:41 < rxr> pkgadd/... would be more handy in my opinion 16:41 < Stelz> but i think we must name commands not like in other distros :) 16:42 < Stelz> coz we should have *OUR OWN* pk-sys 16:42 < Stelz> unique :) 16:42 < Stelz> *pkg 16:59 < rxr> well - slackware and solaris and others use these already 17:00 < rxr> if redhat would not have came up with the rpm hell it could have formed quite a well-known pkg installer use on U*ix ... :-( 17:00 < Stelz> anyway 17:00 < rxr> I think adopting those is more win for us then re-inventing something else 17:00 < Stelz> we 'll make our own pkg-sys 17:00 < Stelz> not from solaris/slackware 17:00 < Stelz> but the same :) 17:01 < rxr> sure, the backend doing the work will be our thing, that is integrating source and binary installations - I'm just talking about the naming conveitions ... 17:01 < Stelz> naming.. hm 17:01 < Stelz> i think it 'll be ONE tool 17:01 < Stelz> one script-name i think 17:02 < Stelz> with -add, -del options 17:02 < Stelz> or not? 17:02 < rxr> well - that can of course internally be handled this way - like symlinks from pkgsel and so on to pkgadd or the like 17:02 < rxr> for comfort and compatibility 17:02 < Stelz> ye 17:02 < rxr> or really seperate programs using the "big brain library" behind the scene 17:02 < Stelz> then.. the name of main-script 17:03 < Stelz> u don't want it to be t2.. 17:03 < Stelz> any ideas? :) 17:03 < rxr> nope - maybe gather some more ideas and code how it is suppost to work ,-) 17:03 < Stelz> :) 17:05 < Stelz> rxr: our main shell is bash? 17:05 < rxr> our main shell is bash, yes 17:06 < Stelz> :) 17:06 < Stelz> fine. 17:06 < rxr> do you ask in wich language to write the new tool ? 17:06 < Stelz> yeah 17:06 < Stelz> so now i see 17:06 < Stelz> bash 17:06 < Stelz> :) 17:07 < rxr> well - depends if bash is the right language for such a complex tool 17:07 < rxr> but you can start 17:07 < rxr> for the new 7.0 features we strongly consider to use LUA 17:08 < Stelz> hm 17:08 < Stelz> lua? 17:08 < Stelz> not tcl? :P 17:10 < Stelz> hm.. so.. lua will be installed by default? and it 'll be better when our pkg-sys 'll be built on lua? ok.. i'll try to look at this. 17:14 < Stelz> but really only lua? 17:14 < Stelz> maybe smthng else like tcl :) 17:14 < Stelz> i just never used lua.. :) 17:18 < valentin> damn, so many things in the api changed from 5.0.2 to 5.1 17:18 < valentin> almost nothing compiles anymore 17:18 < valentin> those morons 17:18 < Stelz> hm.. valentin == lua-specialist? :) 17:18 < valentin> not quite 17:19 < Stelz> so valentin. T2-project 'll use a lot of lua-code, yeah? 17:19 < Stelz> T2 in the future 17:20 < valentin> yes, but t2 uses it's own copy of lua instaead of the system installed one 17:20 < valentin> to avoid such incompatiblities 17:20 < Stelz> erghm.. 17:20 * Stelz confused 17:22 < Stelz> valentin: who makes its own copy? 17:22 < valentin> it is not an 'own' version of lua 17:22 < Stelz> but?.. 17:23 < valentin> just the official package compiled into a local subdir 17:23 < Stelz> hm 17:24 < Stelz> so if i want to be in T2 future.. i must install lua, yeah, valentin ?:) 17:25 < valentin> hm ? 17:25 < valentin> i just told you the opposite :) 17:25 < valentin> 17:20 < valentin> yes, but t2 uses it's own copy of lua instaead of the system installed one 17:25 < valentin> 17:23 < valentin> just the official package compiled into a local subdir 17:25 < Stelz> valentin: i see. 17:26 < Stelz> but i mean 17:26 < Stelz> if i want to be really inside T2, then i must install and learn lua, yeah? 17:26 < Stelz> :) 17:29 < valentin> so you are going to tell me that you do not even have some kbytes left on your hd to install lua ? 17:29 < Stelz> no 17:29 < Stelz> ;) 17:29 < rxr> Stelz: this is not decided yet 17:30 < Stelz> just interested in T2-dev-process 17:30 < rxr> but from the past we learned that we reall hit the complexity level that can be handled in bash 17:30 < Stelz> hm, rxr ? 17:30 < Stelz> hm 17:30 < Stelz> ok 17:30 < rxr> all advanced features we want to implement now sort of do not work out too well in bash 17:30 < rxr> lua was the best alternative so far 17:30 < rxr> but there is nothing decided yet and you are free to propose your ideas and solutions in shell code 17:31 < Stelz> hm rxr. lua is still the best alternative? 17:31 < rxr> so far yes 17:31 < Stelz> hm :) 17:31 < rxr> some parts of t2 are already very slow now (Configure) and some parts need some more processing power (dynamic depednecny graph analysis) that bash also is just way too slow 17:31 < rxr> lua is magnitudes faster 17:31 < rxr> and you can structure your code and data way more saner 17:32 < Stelz> did u think about others? 17:32 < Stelz> for example, tcl :) 17:32 < Stelz> or it's a bad idea 17:32 < rxr> well perl, python, .. are out of question 17:32 < rxr> we also looked at small, embryo, ... 17:33 < rxr> well - tcl looks more like dying out, no ? 17:33 < rxr> does anyone really loves coding in it ? 17:33 < valentin> ohem... 17:33 < valentin> not me 17:33 < Stelz> dying? no.. 17:34 < Stelz> but i like coding in tcl :) 17:34 < valentin> tcl is bloated. lua is small and - besides the C-Api changes - quite reasonable 17:34 < Stelz> hm 17:34 < valentin> Stelz: feel free to re-implement our config in tcl ;) 17:34 < Stelz> lol 17:35 < Stelz> if i'll do this.. then T2 'll use tcl forever? :D 17:39 < rxr> lol 17:39 [Users #t2] 17:39 [@ChanServ ] [ CIA-20] [ mipe] [ sepp ] [ th ] 17:39 [ _Ragnar_ ] [ idealm] [ mtr ] [ sparc-kly] [ valentin] 17:39 [ Baldzius_] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ Stelz ] 17:39 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal] 17:47 < Stelz> :) 17:48 < Stelz> so, rxr, valentin.. now i see.. that i really must to lear a new prog-lang.. lua.. 17:48 < Stelz> if there is no other alternative 17:49 < Stelz> *learn 17:55 < rxr> valentin: updated: http://www.exactcode.de/avisionosx/ http://www.exactcode.de/exactscan/ 17:56 < Stelz> rxr: we 'll not use tcl exactly? :) 17:57 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2 17:57 < valentin> Stelz: it is unlikely that we use tcl 17:57 < valentin> at least noone of us planed to do so 17:57 < Stelz> hm 17:58 < Stelz> and nobody wants to try? :) 17:58 < Stelz> hm.. then i need to install & learn lua 17:58 < misl> hi folks 17:59 < rxr> do you know tcl good enough already? 17:59 < rxr> hi misl ! 18:00 < Stelz> rxr: i think so 18:00 < Stelz> but nobody 'll learn tcl too.. 18:00 < Stelz> i think.. coz for example valentin luvs lua :) 18:02 < misl> Stelz I already know tcl :-) used it professionally for 4 years 18:03 < Stelz> hm.. 18:03 < Stelz> "misl & Stelz with tcl-knowledge VS valentin's professionalism in lua" :D 18:04 < valentin> so, me driving home now, cu later 18:04 < Stelz> cya 18:04 < rxr> cu valentin 18:04 < Stelz> so rxr.. do i need to learn lua? :) 18:05 < Stelz> or it's better to start to dev pkg-sys with bash/tcl 18:05 < rxr> Stelz: well as I tried to point out is that nothing is set in stone here, neither the use of lua 18:06 < misl> cu valentin 18:06 < rxr> so you can of course prototype it in shell+tcl and the like - or gain experience in LUa - as you prefer 18:06 < Stelz> shell+tcl.. maybe clear tcl :) 19:14 < rxr> cu 19:15 < Stelz> cu rxr 19:39 < valentin> re 19:58 -!- sparc-kly|WORK [n=mubex@66-50-123-218.prtc.net] has joined #t2 19:58 < sparc-kly|WORK> rxr t2 6.0 sparc64-niagara this run in U5? 20:23 < LMJ> moin moin 20:23 < Stelz> moin? 20:23 * Stelz :: Date/Time is now [ Mon Sep 18 22:17:52 ] 20:23 < Stelz> ah 20:24 < Stelz> i forgot about your location 20:24 < Stelz> :P 20:24 < Stelz> moin 20:24 < sparc-kly|WORK> Mon Sep 18 14:17:37 AST 2006 20:24 < sparc-kly|WORK> :) 20:24 < sparc-kly|WORK> rxr: ping 20:25 < Stelz> 21:08'33 | rxr> cu 20:25 < Stelz> 21:52'15 | + sparc-kly|WORK (n=mubex@66-50-123-218.prtc.net) has joined #t2 20:25 < Stelz> :) 20:26 < sparc-kly|WORK> thanks stelz 20:26 < Stelz> np 20:53 -!- trb7 [n=netstati@bl5-233-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #t2 20:53 < trb7> hi 20:56 < Stelz> hello, trb7 :) 20:58 < trb7> hi Stelz :) 21:19 < valentin> lol, ooo binarys are only available as rpms theese days 21:19 < Stelz> :( 21:20 < trb7> hi valentin 21:20 < sparc-kly|WORK> valentin: ping 21:20 < valentin> pong 21:20 < trb7> hi sparc-kly 21:20 < sparc-kly|WORK> valentin: t2 6.0 sparc64-niagara this run in U5? 21:21 < sparc-kly|WORK> hi trb7 :) 21:21 < valentin> sparc-kly|WORK: hm, don't think so but could be 21:23 < CIA-20> aldas * r19678 /trunk/package/multimedia/mythtv-plugins/mythtv-plugins.desc: * updated mythtv-plugins (0.20 -> 0.20a) 21:24 < CIA-20> aldas * r19679 /trunk/package/xorg/fontconfig/fontconfig.desc: * updated fontconfig (2.4.0 -> 2.4.1) 21:24 -!- Baldzius_ is now known as Baldzius 21:36 < CIA-20> aldas * r19680 /trunk/package/audio/audacity/ (audacity.conf audacity.desc wx_24.patch): 21:36 < CIA-20> * updated audacity (1.2.4 -> 1.2.4b) 21:36 < CIA-20> * updated copyright notes 21:37 -!- mtr_ [n=Michael@pD9E12D07.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #t2 21:39 < CIA-20> aldas * r19681 /trunk/package/base/lvm2/lvm2.desc: * updated lvm2 (2.02.05 -> 2.02.09) 21:52 < CIA-20> aldas * r19682 /trunk/package/network/pound/pound.desc: * updated pound (2.1 -> 2.1.1) 21:53 -!- mtr [n=Michael@pD9E12BAB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:53 -!- mtr_ is now known as mtr 21:58 * Stelz is away: Sleep is good. Zzzzz 21:58 -!- Stelz is now known as Stelz[away] 22:22 -!- misl [n=chatzill@84-104-172-187.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814]"] 22:59 -!- sparc-kly|WORK [n=mubex@66-50-123-218.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] --- Log closed Tue Sep 19 00:00:08 2006