--- Log opened Mon Aug 22 00:00:00 2005
00:00 < valentin> gn8 rxr
01:55 < jsaw> re
01:56 < jsaw> anybody awake?
02:00 < _Ragnar_> hi
02:00 < _Ragnar_> for a bit
02:00 < jsaw> hi _Ragnar_ 
02:00 < jsaw> :)
02:00 < _Ragnar_> hey hey
02:00 < _Ragnar_> what's up?
02:00 < jsaw> problem with glibc (trunk)...
02:00 < _Ragnar_> oh O_O
02:00 < jsaw> some internal installation check fails due to -as-needed
02:01 < jsaw> (it uses ldd to check if the program was correctly linked to a specified library)
02:01 < _Ragnar_> oops
02:01 < jsaw> now, what to do, remove as-needed for the install procedure, or simply skip the check?
02:02 < _Ragnar_> skip the check I'd say
02:02 < jsaw> sound reasonable, it looks anyway only necessary if you install over an existing glibc...
02:03 < _Ragnar_> ok but that will likely happen if you do a Emerge-Pkg
02:04 < jsaw> I'd actually didn't think about this case... because it can end up fatal anyway in the case of glibc...
02:04 < jsaw> hmmm...
02:06 < _Ragnar_> yea
02:13 < jsaw> ok, test build running..., gotta do some real work now, 
02:13 < jsaw> cu!
02:42 < Shingo--> re
02:44 < Shingo--> hi folks, someone knows why firefox 1.0.6 remains 1.0.4 stuff?
03:20 < menomc> moin
04:16 -!- mnemoc [n=amery@200.75.27.2] has joined #t2
04:18 -!- keinek [n=keinek@201.254.14.133] has joined #t2
04:18 < keinek> buenas
04:19 < sparc-kly> hey :P
04:24 < keinek> hey!
04:24 < keinek> como va sparc-kly ?
04:24 < keinek> go to linuxpreview
04:24 < keinek> here is only english.
04:24 < keinek> :/
04:24 < keinek> :)
04:26 < Shingo--> mnemoc: do you known why my firefox installation remain firefox 1.0.4 stuffs? it's normal?
04:29 -!- menomc [n=amery@200.75.27.46] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
04:30 < mnemoc> Shingo--: what do you mean?
04:30 < mnemoc> Shingo--: an emerge doesn't delete old files
04:31 < mnemoc> Shingo--: if you emerge an updated version you will get both
04:55 -!- mtr_ [n=Michael@p54AF9011.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #t2
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06:13 < Shingo--> mnemoc: hi.
06:14 < Shingo--> my firefox package show me firefox/lib/firefox-1.0.4 and firefox/lib/firefox-1.0.6, is this a problem?
06:15 < Shingo--> of couse it was upgraded.
06:22 < mnemoc> yes, that is normal
06:22 < mnemoc> old files are never deleted
06:23 < mnemoc> because there is not good way to detect orphan files
06:23 < mnemoc> some packages check if the file exists before writting them
06:23 < mnemoc> so simple comparison will consider many files as orphans which are not.
06:32 < Shingo--> it's because lib/firefox-1\.0\.[64]?
06:32 < Shingo--> it in this case the libs are different places.
06:33 < Shingo--> if we remove package before install it?
06:41 < mnemoc> you can, but you may loose configuration file for some packages
06:46 < Shingo--> you saing something generic? can you tell me more?
06:46 < Shingo--> I remember mine do not touch any file out package files. right?
06:54 < mnemoc> only on updates
06:55 < mnemoc> if you uninstall, the files will be preserved
06:55 < mnemoc> but when you reinstall they will get overwritten
06:55 < mnemoc> if you update instead of uninstall/reinstall, all modified files will be backup and restored after
07:08 < mnemoc> i'll go to sleep
07:08 < mnemoc> gn8
07:15 -!- keinek_ [n=keinek@201.254.8.108] has joined #t2
07:18 < CIA-9> jsaw * r11195 /trunk/package/x86/tpb/tpb.desc: * update tpb (0.6.3 -> 0.6.4)
07:19 < CIA-9> jsaw * r11196 /trunk/package/base/howtos/howtos.desc: * update linux-howtos (20050806 -> 20050821)
07:38 -!- keinek [n=keinek@201.254.14.133] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:47 -!- keinek_ [n=keinek@201.254.8.108] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
08:24 < rxr> moin mnemoc 
08:26 -!- Baldzius [n=baldzius@84.46.226.121] has quit ["leaving"]
08:38 -!- morfoh [n=morfoh@mail.oberlinhaus.de] has joined #t2
08:38 < morfoh> moin
08:49 < Shingo--> moin
08:49 < morfoh> moin Shingo-- 
08:49 < valentin> moin
08:49 < morfoh> moin valentin 
08:50 < Shingo--> valentin: moin
08:50 < valentin> moin all
08:52 < Shingo--> are you had sleep well?
08:52 < valentin> rxr: any idea why this line in permisions.d does not work:
08:52 < valentin> KERNEL="hd[a-z]", PROGRAM="/bin/cat /proc/ide/%k/media", RESULT="cdrom", MODE="666"
08:53 < valentin> please not that this works without problems:
08:54 < valentin> KERNEL="hd[a-z]", PROGRAM="/bin/cat /proc/ide/%k/media", RESULT="cdrom", NAME="%k", SYMLINK="cdrom%e
08:54 < valentin> ah, maybe i need that line:
08:54 < valentin> BUS="ide", KERNEL="*[!0-9]", PROGRAM="/bin/cat /proc/ide/%k/media", RESULT="cdrom", ...
09:16 < rxr> one version of udev only used the first matching rule IIRC
09:16 < valentin> sucks !
09:16 < rxr> this changed with versions of udev we do not use yet - because they need a lot of new tweaking due to a lot of incompatible changes
09:16 < valentin> moin rxr
09:16 < Shingo--> there's any doc/info about the './scripts/[Create|Check|Build|*]-*' ?
09:16 < Shingo--> What is a propose for which one?
09:16 < rxr> moin
09:16 < rxr> valentin: I may order the turion 64 laptop now ...
09:16 < morfoh> hi rxr 
09:16 < rxr> http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=1&id=1659&pg=8
09:17 < rxr> hi morfoh 
09:17 < valentin> rxr: so you propose to create a new 650-idepermissions.d ?
09:17 < rxr> valentin: no - try one line as rule
09:17 < rxr> I think udev does only use the first rule ever - it would not even use the other file then IIRC
09:17 < valentin> you mean one line per device ?
09:17 < rxr> but you might need to reread the docu - and we need to migrate to the new udev anyway
09:18 < rxr> valentin: maybe - I'm not yet that fluent with udev - especially not with those people making drastic changs every month
09:19 < rxr> http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=1&id=1659
09:19 < rxr> any good reason I should not buy that laptop ?
09:20 < Shingo--> rxr: can you help me, to any way for my question?
09:21 < rxr> oehm - most docs are in the handbook
09:22 < morfoh> rxr: but the article isn't that good, but I think the only thing you're looking on is the 64Bit CPU 
09:23 < morfoh> rxr: my friend from the laptop store told me, that they were some cooling problems with the MSI too
09:23 < morfoh> there
09:24 < rxr> morfoh: with that mis 270 or others ?
09:25 < morfoh> rxr: I think it was the 260 with AMD CPU's
09:25 < morfoh> rxr: but anyway he told me that the machines are quite solid
09:25 < Shingo--> rxr: there's any idea to improve doc creation around T2 devel?
09:26 < morfoh> Shingo--: what do you mean with improvements ?
09:26 < morfoh> Shingo--: or what do you have in mind  to improve it ?
09:27 < Shingo--> a way to create doc more fast without consume mutch time I think.
09:28 < morfoh> Shingo--: I've tested several markup languages but mostly it's not that easy to write for the web and paper
09:28 < Shingo--> I had my time very busy, but always thinking a way to help with documentation.
09:28 < morfoh> Shingo--: I found ReST (restructured Text) markup quite usefull for that purpose 
09:28 < morfoh> Shingo--: but I know some people don't like it
09:29 < morfoh> Shingo--: yep that would be great if you could support t2 with writing docs :)
09:30 < morfoh> Shingo--: for the web I found the markdown markup language quite usefull but afais it's not handy for writing documentation
09:31 < morfoh> so perhaps ReST could be the markup of choice because we can use it for producing web and printable content
09:32 < morfoh> Shingo--: and Zope/Plone CMS what we use as CMS supports ReST too
09:32 < morfoh> Shingo--: btw, ReST is part of the docutils package 
09:33 < Shingo--> I see. :)
09:34 < morfoh> Shingo--: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html ;)
09:34 < Shingo--> morfoh: what do you think are more slow part of documentation process of T2?
09:35 < morfoh> Shingo--: what do you mean ?
09:36 < Shingo--> morfoh: sorry, my english is very poor. just a moment.
09:36 < morfoh> Shingo--: I think the biggest problem is the lack of time as almost 
09:37 < morfoh> Shingo--: I think a good way for improving documentation is to form sth. like a "testing user group"
09:38 < morfoh> if the users asking for help on #t2 or on the ML one could try to start with a FAQ or so
09:38 < morfoh> after that extracting some more deteailed information
09:38 < Shingo--> I'm thinking to suggest a "documentation team", to help the main developers
09:39 < morfoh> Shingo--: yes ... that would be great
09:40 < Shingo--> maybe a group to help main developers, maybe people not developers with more time available.
09:40 < Shingo--> the project need people with more free time 
09:41  * Shingo-- are a very busy man too. :(
09:42 < morfoh> Shingo--: yes ... I can imagine, but one has to start ... even if he'll be a bit busy 
09:42 -!- bfg [n=bfg@chello080109010143.16.14.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #t2
09:42 < bfg> good morning
09:42  * Shingo-- always help a little then project need.
09:42 < morfoh> good morning bfg 
09:42 < morfoh> Shingo--: :)
09:43 < Shingo--> morfoh: are direct reponsible to any part of the project?
09:43 < valentin> rxr: how can i set environment variables for the livecd X session ?
09:49 < morfoh> Shingo--: we don't have a fine grained project structure yet, but I'm responsible for some packages like Prelude IDS stuff and I try to help mnemoc with the stable releases because we're using quite the same technolgies in production environment
09:49 < morfoh> Shingo--: besides the fact that master mnemoc is a fine man :)
09:49 < morfoh> men
09:49 < morfoh> brb
10:00 < valentin> rxr: i can do so in kdm's Xsession script
10:56 -!- morfoh_ [n=morfoh@mail.oberlinhaus.de] has joined #t2
11:10 < rxr> ok - /me off home soon
11:10 < rxr> valentin: when do you start to AH? That is when should we meet at the S-railway to exchange the box ?
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11:52 < morfoh> why the hell kdewebdev needs arts ?
11:52 < rxr> all kde stuff needs
11:53 < morfoh> anyway pkgprefix complains about that it can't find arts ... 
11:53 < morfoh> rxr: ok I will change the prio after arts
11:54 < CIA-9> chris * r11197 /trunk/package/kde/kdewebdev/kdewebdev.desc: * changed build priority to build kdewebdev after arts package
11:57 < CIA-9> chris * r11198 /branches/2.1/package/kde/kdewebdev/kdewebdev.desc: * merged 11197: changed build priority to build kdewebdev after arts package
11:58 < morfoh> rxr: e17/emotion fails on 2.1 branch too
12:00 < morfoh> how was a package desc automatically generated from a freshmeat entry ?
12:03 < rxr> misc/archive/*fm*
12:05 < morfoh> rxr: uhm?
12:05 < morfoh> rxr: hmmm ... ah there !
12:05 < morfoh> thx
12:07 < rxr> np - /me driving home now ...
12:07 < rxr> notebook ordered
12:07 < morfoh> rxr: oh! me too
12:07 < morfoh> rxr: where have you been ?
12:07 < rxr> though in white and not black due to the white version containing the mt and not the ml turion variant ...
12:07 < rxr> morfoh: susan's kitchen ...
12:07 < morfoh> hehe ... greetings to susan
12:09 < valentin> rxr: you are still at susanns ?
12:59 < morfoh> bbl
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13:15 < bfg> Is there any standard way to extract a second tarball over the first? (the package i want to compile consists of two tarballs, both need to be extracted before the build starts)
13:17 < bfg> i 've found some cmds with tar and match_source_file in other conf-files.
13:21 < bfg> ok i've done it... using a prepatch hook and tar $taropt $(match_source_file ...) -C $builddir
13:39 < rxr> re
13:41 < valentin> hi rxr
13:41 < valentin> i have to fetch a piece of cake now, bbl
13:52 < rxr> _have_ to ,-) ...
13:53 < valentin> hehe
14:11 < valentin> ll
14:15 < rxr> hm
14:17 < rxr> my system freezes during dcc install .-(
14:35 -!- morfoh [n=morfoh@p54BEFE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
14:35 < morfoh> re hi
14:38 < rxr> 14:17 < rxr> my system freezes during dcc install .-(
14:41 < morfoh> .oO( poor rxr )o
14:42  * morfoh finaly renewed his laptop to a shiny fluxbox based desktop :)
14:43 < morfoh> rxr: btw, do we have a check within the build system if localtime is properly set ?
14:43 < rxr> nope
14:43 < morfoh> rxr: what do you think to add it ?
14:44 < morfoh> rxr: i.e. I had problems with xorg's fonts stuff 
14:44 < rxr> yep ...
14:45 < rxr> a case for Paraonoia-Check
14:45 < morfoh> rxr: ack ... that would be nice
14:46 < morfoh> mnemoc: around ?
14:48 < morfoh> hmmm .... seems that mnemonkey ;) isn't available atm :(
14:50 < Shingo--> when a package download point to sf.net what is the best way to choose where the download came from?
14:51 < rxr> no mirror of sf
14:51 < Shingo--> rxr: ?
14:51 < rxr> just remove the mirror prefix - t2 will add one
14:51 < Shingo--> ok. :)
14:58 < Shingo--> rxr: I had fixed some bugs in fmnewpackage.sh
15:02 < rxr> Shingo--: nice
15:15 < Shingo--> rxr: I send the update to ML.
15:25 < Shingo--> The license 'PublicDomain' are missing in Check-PkgFormat
15:29 < rxr> hm
15:53 < mnemoc> morfoh: moin
15:59 -!- rxr_ [i=rene@e178161210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
15:59 -!- Topic for #t2:  T2 | 2.1.0-rc2 RELEASED | The next generation of System Development Environments (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | BT http://torrent.t2-project.org/
15:59 -!- Topic set by vilkacis [] [Tue Aug  9 23:45:30 2005]
15:59 [Users #t2]
15:59 [ _Lewellyn] [ CIA-9] [ mnemoc] [ nzg ] [ SerWou   ] [ valentin] 
15:59 [ _Ragnar_ ] [ dsoul] [ morfoh] [ rxr ] [ Shingo-- ] 
15:59 [ bfg      ] [ jsaw ] [ mtr_  ] [ rxr_] [ sparc-kly] 
15:59 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 16 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
15:59 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug  8 21:15:33 2004
15:59 < mnemoc> uck
15:59 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 11 secs
16:00 < mnemoc> rxr_: <mnemoc> rxr: hi, can you ask th for www3.t2-p.o?
16:00 < Shingo--> mnemoc: tnks
16:00 < rxr_> mnemoc: ?
16:00 < rxr_> why do we need so many www's ?
16:00 < rxr_> willl they be in sync or for testing only ?
16:00 < rxr_> hi mnemoc btw
16:02 -!- rxr [i=rene@e178166108.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
16:02 < morfoh> rxr: we should try to establish a mirroring system for our www servers 
16:03 < morfoh> and as Shingo-- pointed out to set up a documentation team we should also try to establish a t2 network infrastructure team or sth. like that
16:04 < morfoh> which will take care about the different infrastructure components 
16:05 < morfoh> mnemoc: btw, it seems that xfce didn't liked me so I migrated to fluxbox atm :p
16:06 < mnemoc> rxr_: for testing, but using client's name is ugly
16:07 -!- You're now known as rxr
16:07 < rxr> mnemoc: ip == ?
16:07 < mnemoc> morfoh:  t2 network infrastructure team?
16:07 < mnemoc> rxr: 201.238.240.51
16:07 < morfoh> mnemoc: why not ?
16:08 < mnemoc> morfoh: what do you mean by that? :)
16:09 < morfoh> mnemoc: a team which will take care about the different systems/services we need to organize the t2 project
16:09 < mnemoc> morfoh: for LDAP/PDC/Mail target what do you like more Menrva (Etruscan) or Minerva (Roman)?
16:09 < morfoh> mnemoc: or call it t2 network administrator bitches group :p
16:09 < mnemoc> morfoh: considering how small our comunity is, i guess t2-team is enough for now :)
16:10 < morfoh> mnemoc: ack ... but we still have some systems around which will need administration
16:11 < mnemoc> morfoh: sure
16:11 < morfoh> mnemoc: and I'm thinking a bit further. i.e. to develop a scalable project infrastructure 
16:11 < morfoh> mnemoc: anyway I know you agree with me :p
16:12 < mnemoc> morfoh: i like bazaar style ;)
16:12 < mnemoc> mnemoc: but of course i want a good infrastructure
16:13 < mnemoc> morfoh*
16:13 < morfoh> mnemoc: me too ... that's why we should invest some thoughts in a scalable distributed env
16:13 < rxr> mnemoc: I should rename: http://svn.exactcode.de/big.png
16:13 < rxr> to bazaar.png ...
16:13 < mnemoc> rxr: :D
16:13 < morfoh> rxr: haha ... yeah :)
16:14 < rxr> mnemoc: s.th. strange on my system does cause a kernel hang on trunk reference 5-dcc build ... :-(
16:14 < rxr> I suspect either some IDE or ReiserFS bug ...
16:14 < mnemoc> morfoh: if i win the lottery i want to by t2-powered.net to do some kind of t2 forge
16:14 < rxr> no idea ...
16:14 < mnemoc> weird
16:14 < rxr> mnemoc: should I register t2-powered.net before domain grabbers get it ?
16:15 < mnemoc> rxr: $$?
16:15 < morfoh> mnemoc: I think it will not cost that much 
16:15 < mnemoc> 'that much' is budged relative :)
16:16 < morfoh> mnemoc: yeah yeah yeah my friend :)
16:16 < morfoh> rxr: what do you pay for .net domain atm ?
16:17 < morfoh> I guess <20Euro a year
16:17 < mnemoc> .oO( outch )o
16:17 < mnemoc> i considered 123cheapdomains expensive until i knew your registars
16:18 < morfoh> mnemoc: at least I can register .net, .com, .org for 19 Euro a year 
16:18 < morfoh> mnemoc: and it becomes even cheaper if I provide my own DNS server
16:19 < mnemoc> i have to go to now, back in 1:30h
16:19 < morfoh> mnemoc: where is to ? :)
16:20 < mnemoc> doctor
16:20 < morfoh> I'll be away for 1.5h too ... 
16:20 < morfoh> mnemoc: still sick ?
16:20 < mnemoc> i'm sick per se
16:20 < mnemoc> cu
16:20 < morfoh> mnemoc: cu 
16:24 -!- Shingo-- [n=Shingo--@201.36.98.165] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:31 -!- Shingo-- [n=Shingo--@201.36.98.165] has joined #t2
16:47 < rxr> mnemoc: when I buy it - do you do s.th. useuful with it ?
17:08 -!- keinek [n=keinek@201.254.8.108] has joined #t2
17:08 < keinek> hi
17:09 < rxr> http://www3.t2-project.org/
17:12 < Shingo--> why not create w3.t2-project.org?
17:12 < Shingo--> :)
17:29 < rxr> damn imagemagick crap
17:48 < mnemoc> re
17:49 < rxr> mnemoc: you got www3
17:50 < mnemoc> rxr: on the beginning i wanted to add subdomains per target, which their own svn and web space and pre-installed trac
17:50 < rxr> mnemoc: I registered t2-powered.net right now  ...
17:50 < mnemoc> rxr: i'm working on 4 targets on my own
17:50 < mnemoc> rxr: great! :)
17:51 < mnemoc> later i would like to automatize their creation, see quotas an staff like that
17:52 < mnemoc> later*2, i would like to provide space for binary packages distribution and some info on Config to be used by 'tpt' (t2 package transfer?)
17:53 < mnemoc> 'distribution name' 'distribution version'
17:53 < mnemoc> 'distribution homepage' 'distribution tpt URL' and 'distributor public key'
17:54 < mnemoc> to be used by 'tpt'
17:54 < mnemoc> s/later\*2/later\^2/ :)
18:20 -!- sparc-kly|SSH [n=mubex@64.237.254.237] has joined #t2
18:20 < mnemoc> rxr: what do you think?
18:20 < rxr> yes that would be great - but I lack time ... :-(((
18:21 < mnemoc> same do i, but we have to start with something, bazaar vs. cathedral ;)
18:32 < mnemoc> morfoh: ping
18:34 -!- sparc-kly|SSH [n=mubex@64.237.254.237] has quit ["leaving"]
19:08 < _Ragnar_> moin
19:08 < mnemoc> moin _Ragnar_ 
19:10 < _Ragnar_> hi mnemoc 
19:11 < CIA-9> jsaw * r11199 /trunk/package/base/glibc/glibc.conf: * installation procedure of glibc doesn't like --as-needed
19:11 < rxr> jsaw: you do not accidently wanna debug why my system freezes on dcc install ? ,-)
19:12 < mnemoc> :D
19:12 < _Ragnar_> O_O
19:12 < _Ragnar_> dcc?
19:15 < rxr> _Ragnar_: don't ask me ...
19:15 -!- keinek_ [n=keinek@201.255.148.245] has joined #t2
19:15 < rxr> I suspect a reiser or ide bug in thy kernel ....
19:15 < rxr> I also get those in my latest reference build:
19:15 < rxr> Re-running configuration:
19:15 < rxr> -> Creating configuration script.
19:15 < rxr> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0808f360 ***
19:15 < rxr> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0808f360 ***
19:15 < rxr> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0808f360 ***
19:15 < rxr> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0808f360 ***
19:15 < rxr> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0808f360 ***
19:15 < rxr> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0808f360 ***
19:15 < rxr> -> T2 2.2.0-alpha configuration ...
19:15 < rxr> -> New config written to config/default/*.
19:18 < rxr> The Image Processing Handbook
19:18 < rxr> von John C. Russ
19:18 < rxr> US-Preisempfehlung*: $159.95
19:18 < rxr> Amazon-Preis: EUR 144,50
19:18 < rxr> ouhm -^
19:19 < rxr> in system dcc builds ...
19:21 < _Ragnar_> O_O
19:21 < _Ragnar_> weird
19:22 < mnemoc> fl_Wrapper?
19:23 < rxr> the invalid pointer mayve - though more likely bash accelerator or so
19:23 < rxr> but the freeze is a nodo - never ever should a file copy freeze the box ...
19:23 < mnemoc> file copy --> install_Wrapper
19:24 < rxr> nothing should freeze the box ...
19:24 < rxr> period
19:25 < _Ragnar_> reiser reacts badly to bad blocks
19:25 < _Ragnar_> or failed r/w
19:28 < rxr> though nothing i nthe log - and in theory it is a 3 weeks old Maxtor drive ...
19:28 < rxr> though that could be bad, ..
19:28 < rxr> but I dd'ed the partition to dev/null this afternoon ...
19:29 < _Ragnar_> badblocks usually works fine ;)
19:37 -!- keinek [n=keinek@201.254.8.108] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:40 -!- minto [n=chatzill@82-217-66-7.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
19:41 < minto> hi *
19:41 < rxr> hi minto 
19:54 -!- morfoh [n=morfoh@p54BEFE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"]
19:54 < Shingo--> I need bed folks, cu
19:55 < rxr> cu
19:55 < rxr> have a good sleep
19:59 -!- morfoh [n=morfoh@p54BEFE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
20:00 < morfoh> re hi
20:02 < morfoh> what package do I have to install to set wallpapers in X ?
20:05 < CIA-9> amery * r11200 /trunk/package/base/howtos/howtos.desc: 
20:05 < CIA-9> * fixed howtos' [V] to match [D] due to preview update
20:05 < CIA-9> * updated howtos (20050806 -> 20050822)
20:11 < mnemoc> morfoh: can you test if util-vserver (including fix02.patch) builds on trunk?
20:11 < morfoh> mnemoc: ok
20:13 < mnemoc> i tried porting vs2.0 to 2.1 on a ssp sandbox, and failed to build that which the fix, without the fix builds fine.
20:14 < _Ragnar_> there's a 2.1 out?
20:14 < morfoh> mnemoc: can I inherit a .choice within mnemosyne's pkgsel ?
20:14 < morfoh> moin _Ragnar_ 
20:14 < _Ragnar_> moin moin
20:14 < morfoh> mnemoc: uhm ... with SSP ... weired :p
20:15 < mnemoc> morfoh: Imply:
20:15 < mnemoc> morfoh: see gnome
20:15 < morfoh> mnemoc: thx :)
20:15 < _Ragnar_> how about updating pcre from 6.1 to 6.3? 6.1 has a potential buffer overflow says heise.de
20:16 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: any API change?
20:16 < _Ragnar_> dunno yet
20:16 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: currently i'm testing kde 3.4.2 for merge... and their build takes ages
20:16 < _Ragnar_> oh ok
20:16 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: after that i can schedule a pcre test update
20:17 < _Ragnar_> I'll try that, too
20:17 < mnemoc> don't forget to schedule every package depending on pcre :)
20:17 < _Ragnar_> yes I'm at that ... there's no automated way for doing that?
20:18 < mnemoc> for pkg in `grep -l pcre package/*/*/*.cache`; do
20:18 < mnemoc> ./scripts/Create-ErrList -cfg foo -remove $pkg
20:18 < mnemoc> done
20:19 < _Ragnar_> not too bad tho, only 30 packages or so
20:20 < mnemoc> :(
20:20 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: after that you can do the merge yourself :)
20:21 < _Ragnar_> ;)
20:22 < CIA-9> amery * r11201 /trunk/target/mnemosyne/mnemosyne.pl: * finished mnemosyne.pl by generating awkgen.in :-)
20:23 < morfoh> ^ :)
20:24 -!- Baldzius [n=baldzius@84.46.226.121] has joined #t2
20:24 < Baldzius> good evening
20:24 < morfoh> good evening Baldzius 
20:39 < rxr> GLE (Graphics Layout Engine) 4.0.9 
20:39 < rxr> http://freshmeat.net/releases/204788/
20:43 < mnemoc> rxr: no samples?
20:44 < rxr> no idea - no time
20:44 < mnemoc> :(
20:44 < mnemoc> http://www.gle-graphics.org/examples/index.html
20:45 < rxr> hehe ,-)
20:45 < rxr> cu - /me 2 susan
20:45 < mnemoc> wait!
20:46 < mnemoc> if [[ $SDECFG_TRG_MNEMOSYNE_GNOME == (basic|minimal) ]]; then <--- what's the right syntax?
20:49 < jsaw> re
20:49 < jsaw> rxr: send me your box, I'll debug it (...and then keep it :) )
20:50 < mnemoc> :-)
20:51 < _Ragnar_> ;D
20:59 < mnemoc> morfoh: ping
21:00 < CIA-9> amery * r11202 /trunk/target/mnemosyne/mnemosyne.pl: * fixed mnemosyne.pl last typos, and hardcoded to disable all it SDECFG_TARGET == mnemosyne
21:02 < mnemoc> morfoh: i want to commit the changes to mnemosyne's config.in   please _back up_!
21:14 < CIA-9> amery * r11203 /trunk/target/mnemosyne/ (config.in mnemosyne.txt): * changed mnemosyne to finally use mnemosyne.pl
21:16 < CIA-9> amery * r11204 /trunk/target/mnemosyne/ (3 files in 2 dirs): * removed old mnemosyne.in and fixed apache module conf to $key.conf
21:25 < rxr> re
21:25 < rxr> jsaw: .o(ok)
21:27 < Baldzius> file skas-2.6.12-rc4-v9-pre4.patch.bz2 is missing in nexus 2.2 source tree
21:27 < Baldzius> i can't get it from original url either
21:28 < jsaw> which files do I have to touch to make the build system accept "tbz" as valid tar bz2 package?
21:28 < mnemoc> bz2filename at functions
21:28 < mnemoc> to convert them to tbz2 :)
21:29 < mnemoc> Baldzius: try www.geeks.cl/t2-mirror/2.2-alpha  as mirror
21:29 < mnemoc> Baldzius: try www.geeks.cl/t2-mirror/2.2.0-alpha  as mirror
21:29 < jsaw> mnemoc: oh, I did that
21:29 < jsaw> mnemoc: but that's exactly why it does not work...
21:29 < mnemoc> jsaw: uhm?
21:30 < jsaw> mnemoc: the package ends with tbz already, so if I convert it, tbz2 will not be found...
21:30 < mnemoc> jsaw: Download should use that function and convert it on download/
21:30 < jsaw> I somehow prefer to keep the packages file ending...
21:31 < mnemoc> jsaw: scripts/functions:765:                          *.tar.bz2|*.tbz2) custextract="autoextract_tar_bz2" ;;
21:32 < jsaw> yep, I changed all occurences
21:32 < jsaw> but the change in bz2filename made it not work...
21:32 < jsaw> now it's ok
21:32 < jsaw> yes, botan builds
21:33 < valentin> re
21:33 < mnemoc>  time ./scripts/Config -cfg mnemosyne -oldconfig > /dev/null
21:33 < mnemoc> real    0m7.985s
21:33 < mnemoc> user    0m1.410s
21:33 < mnemoc> sys     0m0.701s
21:33 < mnemoc> ]$ time ./scripts/Config -cfg generic -oldconfig > /dev/null
21:33 < mnemoc> real    0m7.981s
21:33 < mnemoc> user    0m1.483s
21:33 < mnemoc> sys     0m0.746s
21:34 < mnemoc> can that really be the perl performance effect ?
21:34 < CIA-9> jsaw * r11205 /trunk/scripts/ (Check-PkgVersion Download functions): * make tbz a valid tarbz2 file ending
21:35 < jsaw> uhm, well, extension...
21:35 < mnemoc> mnemosyne has lot of parsing and trickery.... generic only have templates detection
21:37 < mnemoc> jsaw: elif [ "${x%.bz2}" != "$x" -o "${x%.tbz2}" != "$x"  -o "${x%.tbz}" != "$x" ]  <--- why not a case/esac ?
21:38 < jsaw> am I then only one getting Mail delivery failed to sylvain.cavagna@runbox.com constantly?
21:38 < jsaw> mnemoc: I just extended what was there...
21:39 < mnemoc> Download need rewritting :)
21:39 < jsaw> and I need some rewiring
21:40 -!- minto [n=chatzill@82-217-66-7.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.6/20050717]"]
21:40 < mnemoc> jsaw: i would like to try lua for TAIL, how would you start the integration on Config/Build-Tools?
21:41 < jsaw> mnemoc: the biggest obstacle I currently see, is, that popen was removed from standard lua io. 
21:42 < jsaw> mnemoc: so, to start, I think you will need the "posix" extension
21:42 < mnemoc> jsaw: we could start writting t2lua over standard lua
21:42 < mnemoc> jsaw: without altering core T2
21:43 < mnemoc> jsaw: making it 'leak' inside
21:43 < jsaw> The popen decision has very good reasons, the same reasons, dietlibc has popen in the "libugly" library...
21:43 < jsaw> mnemoc: yes, I have a simple .desc parser somewhere laying around
21:44 < mnemoc> jsaw: i think .desc change has to wait a lot
21:44 < jsaw> mnemoc: I'll fix it and put it into misc/lua 
21:44 < jsaw> nonono
21:44 < mnemoc> jsaw: what about lua itself?
21:44 < jsaw> a parser for the current .desc 
21:44 < mnemoc> ah, ok
21:44 < mnemoc> jsaw: i would like to not have it as requirement
21:44 < jsaw> what I have sent is only an example who easy it could be loading a desc in lua
21:45 < jsaw> I'm lost, what? as requirement
21:45 < jsaw> ?
21:45 < jsaw> oh, lua
21:45 < mnemoc> to use lua without requireing lua, i.e. building lua on src/
21:46 < jsaw> I was actually thinking of creating a "bootstrap" file that build lua and needed sources into build/tools
21:46 < _Ragnar_> O_o
21:46 < _Ragnar_> complexity++
21:46 < mnemoc> you leave Download, Config and others outside
21:46 < jsaw> Something posix shell compliant which would run on every system
21:46 < jsaw> be it *BSD,*hurd or whatever
21:46 < mnemoc> ash :)
21:47 < jsaw> lua itself builds on a lot of archs (including the hated OS)
21:48 < jsaw> _Ragnar_: well, yes, but this "bootstrap" would have to be executed only once, when you download the build tree
21:49 < _Ragnar_> what advantage does it bring that offsets the complexity?
21:49 < jsaw> which complexity do you mean now, lua or bootstrap?
21:49 < _Ragnar_> lua
21:50 < mnemoc> over lua we could build a fast T2-specific scripting language
21:50 < mnemoc> to really reduce complexity and improve performance
21:50 < jsaw> _Ragnar_: we're talking about changing the base language of T2 since over a year...
21:50 < jsaw> lua is only one possible solution
21:51 < jsaw> rxr would prefer C++
21:51 < _Ragnar_> that leads to gentoo and their pythonness
21:51 < jsaw> no
21:51 < jsaw> definitely not
21:51 < _Ragnar_> I dunno if that's really wanted;p
21:51 < jsaw> the principle of the build system will stay as it is,
21:51 < mnemoc> i would like to try with TAIL first, and see how complex/simple the result is
21:51 < jsaw> be it lua or C++ or python or perl as basic language
21:52 < _Ragnar_> hmm so which parts would be transfered?
21:53 < jsaw> mnemoc: to start with lua, start reading the manual.. it's well written, however mostly applies to 5.0.2 (http://www.lua.org/pil/), but the changes will not be obvious when you start with lua, so...
21:54 < jsaw> _Ragnar_: nothing right now
21:54 < mnemoc> jsaw: i would not rewrite T2 in lua itself, i would rewrite it on T2LUA to simplify what we have now and make it lighter
21:54 < jsaw> _Ragnar_: in the long run, if we stick to some language, the .conf files and the scripts/* and so on
21:55 < mnemoc> i don't like the idea of changing drasticly the .conf,.desc,... syntax
21:55 < jsaw> jsaw: then we should think about using some extended "ash" and not a different language
21:55 < _Ragnar_> hmmm .... sure can try, but I don't see lua making stuff any clearer and easier to maintain then the current shell script setup
21:56 < rxr> re
21:56 < jsaw> speed
21:56 < jsaw> speed 
21:56 < jsaw> speed...
21:56 < mnemoc> readability? simplicity?
21:56 < jsaw> _Ragnar_: you need awk, perl, sed, and so on...
21:56 < _Ragnar_> and lua helps that? their pseudo regex support doesn't cut what you can do with sed/awk
21:57 < jsaw> and mnemoc is right, shell syntax is not really a bright example of clarity
21:57 < _Ragnar_> that's true indeed;)
21:57 < jsaw> _Ragnar_: pcre extension to lua...
21:57 < _Ragnar_> adding to the dependency graph for the build system ...
21:57 < mnemoc> lua is extensible, we can extend lua to do on a method what we do with sed/awk and really cleanup our code
21:58 < _Ragnar_> remember, all of that has to build on the host system, which may be screwed up in any way (point to redhat&co)
21:58 < rxr> btw. we ned .zip package automation
21:58 < jsaw> and also embeddable... so can still make rxr happy and embedd lua into some C++ frame ;)
21:58 < mnemoc> rxr: we have
21:59 < mnemoc> rxr: scripts/functions:766:     *.zip) custextract="autoextract_zip" ;;
22:00 < rxr> is that new ?
22:00 < mnemoc> kind of
22:00 < jsaw> :)
22:01 < mnemoc> rxr: and that extension let you define a custextract on .conf ;)
22:01 < mnemoc> (we need documentation)
22:02 < rxr>  10696     msluis                               *.zip) custextract="autoextract_
22:02 < rxr> I need to review each commit again
22:02 < jsaw> _Ragnar_: that's why I thought about "bootstrap" before lua was even on the radar
22:02  * rxr was too lazy in the last weeks ..
22:02 < mnemoc> rxr: what's wrong mr. core architect?
22:02 < rxr> mnemoc: even with docu _I_ would not have read that docu ... 
22:03 < rxr> mnemoc: nothing - all is better than I thought ,-)!
22:03 < mnemoc> rxr: :)
22:03 < jsaw> :)
22:03 < jsaw> :D
22:03 < mnemoc> we were discussing custextract implementation 3-4 days here :p
22:03 < rxr> I "just" need to stay /tuned/
22:03 < mnemoc> :)
22:06  * mnemoc really wonders how mnemosyne Config can be faster than generic now
22:06 < _Ragnar_> bbl lunch
22:06 < _Ragnar_> ;D
22:09 < rxr> whois t2-powered.net
22:11 < mnemoc> owner-contact: P-ROR92
22:11 < mnemoc> owner-organization: ExactCode
22:11 < mnemoc> :D
22:12 < mnemoc> rxr: do you have direct modifications over your domains, or you have to pass via th?
22:13 < CIA-9> amery * r11206 /trunk/target/mnemosyne/ (config.in mnemosyne.pl): * changed mnemosyne.pl to disable all packages if awkgen is sourced with DISABLE_ALL argument instead of hardcoding this 'feature' to TARGET=mnemosyne
22:16 < rxr> mnemoc: for .de you need two nameserver in different subnsets
22:16 < rxr> I can not provide them - thus I let TH do all the administration work and only pass the info to him
22:17 < mnemoc> ic :)
22:17 < rxr> subnets erven
22:17 < mnemoc> :p
22:18 < rxr> I announced the concept of t2-powered.net to the list
22:18 < rxr> if you have an plan or so how to setup and on what hardware let me know
22:19 < rxr> if you are short in time I can set up a static index.html until we do more with it
22:20 < mnemoc> rxr: index.html for now :)
22:21 < rxr> ok - I do tomorrow
22:21 < rxr> n8 all
22:21 < mnemoc> gn8 rxr, and thanks a lot
22:22 < morfoh> good night rxr
22:22 < jsaw> gn8 rxr 
22:22 < jsaw> I have to leave also...
22:22 < mnemoc> morfoh!
22:23 < morfoh> mnemoc!
22:23 < mnemoc> morfoh: can you backup and see if your targets still pass a Config ?
22:23 < jsaw> mnemoc: I setup the basic infrastructure for playing around with lua this week...
22:23 < jsaw> cu all
22:23 < morfoh> hi jsaw 
22:23 < morfoh> cu
22:23 < jsaw> :) cu morfoh 
22:23 < mnemoc> jsaw: nice :)
22:23 < morfoh> ;)
22:23 < mnemoc> jsaw: cu
22:24 < morfoh> mnemoc: what do you mean ... on trunk ?
22:24 < morfoh> mnemoc: testing mnemosyne I guess 
22:25 < morfoh> mnemoc: one moment ... a good friend visited me this evening
22:26 < mnemoc> morfoh: don't blame me if you loose your configs :)
22:26 < morfoh> mnemoc: I will not blame you ... I will kick you :p
22:27 < mnemoc> you would have to come over here :)
22:28 < morfoh> mnemoc: I think I'll have some methods to get you over here and will doing it then :p
22:29 < mnemoc> :)
22:31 < morfoh> mnemoc: so you're a type of masochist :p
22:31 < morfoh> mnemoc: but same applies to me too 
22:33 < mnemoc> if i not were masochist i wouldn't invest all these hours on t2 :p
22:35 < morfoh> I know masochist master mnemoc :p
22:41 < morfoh> damn ... why didn't I have sound with xine 
22:48 < morfoh> I know I know ... dumb user questions are straightly ignored here :p
22:48 < mnemoc> :9
22:48 < mnemoc> :)
22:51 < morfoh> yeah ... my friend you can laugh about it ... pff :p
22:54 < morfoh> btw, I don't need the help anyway ... I'll reboot into windows :p
22:54  * morfoh hides
22:55 < _Ragnar_> re
22:56 < mnemoc> :)
23:00 < morfoh> what a pitty ... no one is willing to help old morfoh here with very serious problems 
23:00 < _Ragnar_> what's wrong?
23:00 < morfoh> shame on you at #t2 :p
23:01 < morfoh> _Ragnar_: just sound problems ... I tried to impress a friend how good linux is working but I wasn't able to play a simple DVD :p
23:01 < _Ragnar_> ooops
23:01 < morfoh> yes ... and no one is helping me ... 
23:01  * _Ragnar_ usually plays divx but that should be the same when it comes to sound
23:01 < morfoh> master mnemoc is just smiling elegantly :p
23:04 < morfoh> _Ragnar_: yeah ...  I think I've screwed up my working kernel config with my latest update ... but I'll solve it my own ... I don't need any help 
23:05 < morfoh> :p
23:05 < _Ragnar_> ok
23:07 < morfoh> now I'll screwing up my config with mnemoc latest changes on mnemosyne anyway
23:08 < morfoh> mnemoc: but unfortunately your changes seem to work
23:09 < morfoh> mnemoc: so you'll not have much fun
23:09 < mnemoc> :(
23:09 < mnemoc> morfoh: do you feel any difference?
23:09 < morfoh> mnemoc: but I can kick you anyway if you want :)
23:09 < _Ragnar_> *lol*
23:10 < morfoh> mnemoc: what difference ... in what sence ? 
23:11 < mnemoc> speed
23:11 < morfoh> mnemoc: it's fast like a lightning compared to the former implementation
23:11 < morfoh> :9
23:11 < morfoh> :9
23:11 < morfoh> arrrgg
23:11 < mnemoc> really?
23:11 < morfoh> seems so
23:12 < morfoh> tsort: -: input contains an odd number of tokens <--- while running Config
23:12 < mnemoc> aaarg
23:12 < mnemoc> are you at HEAD?
23:12 < mnemoc> i injected a hack to avoid that
23:12 < morfoh> am I brain dead ?
23:12 < mnemoc> i'll not discuss that :)
23:13 < morfoh> of course I did an svn up 
23:13 < morfoh> ok ... my friend you'll get some 
23:14 < morfoh> I can imagine where you injected the hack but it wasn't on trunk ... that's for sure
23:14 < morfoh> :p
23:15 < mnemoc> :)
23:16 < mnemoc> morfoh: can you change mnemosyne.pl:239 s/if/unless/   and try again?
23:16 < valentin> anyone knows how to tell firefox which language to use ?
23:16 < mnemoc> UI? i guess that's buildtime
23:16 < morfoh> valentin: UI ?
23:17 < valentin> what UI ?
23:17 < morfoh> valentin: uhm ? from firefox ?
23:17 < valentin> so firefox has no multilanguage support ???
23:18 < morfoh> valentin: I guess for the UI this is the case 
23:18 < morfoh> valentin: not that smart like konq
23:19 < valentin> i do not want to mod the .conf file each time i build for another audience
23:21 < morfoh> I have to reboot ... to test my new kernel which hopefully supports my sondcard again. thanks for the help :p
23:21 < morfoh> bbl
23:21 < mnemoc> valentin: a global language list on Config would be nice
23:21 -!- morfoh [n=morfoh@p54BEFE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"]
23:21 < mnemoc> valentin: SDECFG_LANGUAGES="en"   by default
23:22 < valentin> mnemoc: do we have such a thing by now ?
23:24 < mnemoc> valentin: nope
23:24 < mnemoc> valentin: but we have to
23:27 -!- morfoh [n=morfoh@p54BEFE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
23:27 < valentin> can mozilla do multilanguage ?
23:27 < morfoh> hmmm ... still not working :/
23:27 < morfoh> mnemoc: what should I test on mnemosyne ?
23:34 < mnemoc> valentin: afaik not
23:34 < mnemoc> morfoh: minute
23:35 < CIA-9> amery * r11207 /trunk/target/mnemosyne/mnemosyne.pl: * changed mnemosyne.pl's hack to give an even number of tokens to tsort
23:36 < _Ragnar_> :D
23:36 < mnemoc> morfoh: try that one
23:37 < morfoh> mnemoc: ok :)
23:38 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: what makes you happy?
23:39 < _Ragnar_> s/happy/smiling/
23:39 < morfoh> mnemoc: why isn't _Ragnar_ allowed to laugh without any question from your side ? :p
23:39 < _Ragnar_> pcre hasn't failed with kdebase yet
23:42 < mnemoc> good reason to smile :)
23:43 < morfoh>  Item: Master [Off] <--- alsamixer
23:43 < morfoh> how can I toggle it ?
23:45 < valentin> M
23:45 < valentin> or m
23:46 < morfoh> thanks papa valentin ... you're the best :)
23:46 < morfoh> at least one friendly person here :)
23:46  * morfoh hides
23:47 < mnemoc> morfoh: is it sounding now?
23:48 < morfoh> yep ... now I can watch the special movies keinek_ send me :)
23:49 < mnemoc> mnemoc: OT: do you keep wanting syslog-ng on mnemosyne?
23:49 < keinek_> ??
23:49 < mnemoc> s/mnemoc/morfoh/
23:49 < morfoh> ah hi keinek_ ... you're here ...
23:50 < morfoh> hehe :)
23:50 < morfoh> hmmm ... but damn the film is on spanish 
23:51 < morfoh> keinek_: ... btw, was just a joke ... I wanted to watch "Hotel Ruanda"
23:51 < mnemoc> morfoh: answer please
23:51 < morfoh> mnemoc: oh! sorry ... why not ?
23:52 < morfoh> socklog is primary logger anyway 
23:52 < morfoh> and a lot of people like syslog-ng
23:52  * _Ragnar_ doesn't see why :P
23:52 < morfoh> anyway ... master mnemoc converted me to using socklog 
23:53 < morfoh> mnemoc: if you wanted to eliminate it ... go ahead
23:55 < mnemoc> morfoh: i want to rethink current modules
23:56 < morfoh> mnemoc: ack ... that's a good idea ... any other things you want to "kill" ?
--- Log closed Tue Aug 23 00:00:00 2005