T2 IRC Log: 2005-03-13

This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.

« prev | next »

--- Log opened Sun Mar 13 00:00:46 2005
00:08 < mnemoc> jeru: how much slower than generic is mnemosyne Config?
00:08 < mnemoc> on your machine
00:08 < jeru> hmmm ??? let me try
00:08 < mnemoc> time ./scripts/Config -cfg generic -oldconfig
00:08 < mnemoc> vs.
00:09 < mnemoc> time ./scripts/Config -cfg mnemosyne -oldconfig
00:09 < jeru> :D
00:09 < mnemoc> with CUI the mesure gets borked :p
00:11 < jeru> btw: what's the oldconfig for?
00:11 < jeru> New config written to config/generic/*.
00:11 < jeru> Cleaning up. Configuration finished.
00:11 < jeru> real 0m29.389s
00:11 < jeru> user 0m2.033s
00:11 < jeru> sys 0m1.019s
00:12 < mnemoc> it just 'updates' the config
00:12 < jeru> New config written to config/mnemosyne/*.
00:12 < jeru> Cleaning up. Configuration finished.
00:12 < jeru> real 0m7.278s
00:12 < jeru> user 0m1.886s
00:12 < jeru> sys 0m0.773s
00:12 < mnemoc> uhm
00:13 < jeru> :)
00:13 < jeru> why uhm?
00:13 < mnemoc> 0m1.019s vs. 0m0.773s
00:13 < mnemoc> very acceptable :p
00:13 < jeru> that why I :)
00:14 < mnemoc> i hope my rewrite of mnemosyne.in improves that
00:14 < jeru> let's see
00:17 < jeru> building kdepim takes time ... zzzZZZzzZZZZ
00:17 < mnemoc> fixing sasl there was quite bored
00:17 < jeru> I can imagine :|
00:19 < jeru> mnemoc: but it's nice to have a "fresh" system ;)
00:19 < jeru> at least for some time ;)
00:19 < mnemoc> while it's fresh :p
00:19 < jeru> yep
00:53 -!- j3ru [~jeru@p54BFAF2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
00:53 < j3ru> re
00:54 < mnemoc> re
00:54 < j3ru> hehe
00:54 < j3ru> mnemoc: so you're working on saturday
00:54 < mnemoc> we work from monday to saturday
00:55 < mnemoc> 45-50 hours per week
00:55 < j3ru> mnemoc: uhm ...
00:55 < j3ru> wow
00:55 < mnemoc> uhm?
00:56 < mnemoc> how long is it there?
00:56 < j3ru> so you were working as an employer?
00:56 < mnemoc> employee
00:56 < j3ru> normaly it's 38-40h
00:56 < mnemoc> coding
00:56 < j3ru> that was what I mean
00:57 < j3ru> ahh ...
00:57 < mnemoc> :)
00:57 < mnemoc> but i hate to code :p
00:57 < mnemoc> but decent money, and they let me go touniversity
00:57 < j3ru> I also like to hack on machines
00:58 < j3ru> more than coding
00:58 < mnemoc> :)
00:58 < j3ru> me studying as well ... just have a part time job
00:59 < j3ru> 23:04:30 =[9]=> Building kde/kdepim [3.4.0-rc1 2.1.0-rc1]
00:59 < j3ru> 00:52:20 =[9]=> Finished building package kdepim.
01:00 < mnemoc> :)
01:01 -!- jeru [~jeru@p54BFC09F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
01:01 < mnemoc> kdebindings is another nightmare
01:01 < j3ru> don't want to think about it ;)
01:02 < mnemoc> you beloved kde :)
01:02 < j3ru> should switch back to fluxbox ;)
01:02 < mnemoc> i prefer 100 packages with specific bindings :p
01:03 < mnemoc> paul shäfer will be expeled insted of extradited
01:04 < j3ru> extradited?
01:04 < j3ru> can't find it in dict
01:04 < j3ru> ;)
01:04 < mnemoc> mom
01:05 < mnemoc> yes, extradite exist :p
01:05 < mnemoc> that means to send to another country to be judged
01:06 < j3ru> hmmm ... extradited I found ;)
01:06 < j3ru> which country ?
01:06 < j3ru> ahh not extradited ...
01:06 < mnemoc> he will be expelled not extradicted
01:07 < j3ru> hmmm ...
01:07 < mnemoc> 'we' assume they will expel him to the chilean fronter
01:07 < j3ru> and then ?
01:07 < mnemoc> re-catch him here
01:07 < mnemoc> and judge him
01:08 < j3ru> how are the chances to re-catch him ?
01:08 < mnemoc> if they expel him in front of chilean police i hope they do
01:08 < j3ru> we'll hope the best ...
01:09 < mnemoc> he was hidden there 7 years
01:09 < mnemoc> and found by reporters of a Tv program
01:09 < j3ru> but I thought he was quite tight with chilean police
01:10 < mnemoc> rummors say that
01:10 < mnemoc> -m
01:11 < j3ru> hope he'll be judged properly
01:11 < mnemoc> army and police here is trained using a 'prussian model' so they kind of admire german soldiers
01:12 < mnemoc> a very idealised view of them
01:13 < j3ru> hmmm ... that is what I'm worried about
01:13 < mnemoc> but TV is more powerfull than personal admiration :)
01:14 < j3ru> don't know exactly if this is better ;)
01:14 < mnemoc> they can forgot the check a tunnel but they can't loose a prisioner from the car
01:15 < mnemoc> prisioner is not the right word, but i don't now the one :)
01:15 < mnemoc> detain?
01:15 < mnemoc> detainee i guess
01:16 < mnemoc> 1472 builds total, 1114 completed fine, 28 with errors. <-- i have to finish mnemosyne.in rewrite and start fixing :|
01:18 < mnemoc> prelude-manager failed
01:18 < mnemoc> In file included from ../../../src/include/db.h:27, from mysql.c:36:
01:18 < mnemoc> /opt/prelude/include/libprelude/list.h:70: error: conflicting types for 'list_add'
01:19 -!- _Jeru_ [~jeru@p54BFE01C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
01:19 < _Jeru_> damn ... nicks
01:19 < mnemoc> what was the last you got?
01:19 < _Jeru_> j3ru
01:19 < mnemoc> the last message :)
01:19 < mnemoc> the last thing written by me
01:20 < _Jeru_> hmmm?
01:20 * _Jeru_ is scratching his head
01:21 < mnemoc> :)
01:21 < mnemoc> but TV is more powerfull than personal admiration :)
01:21 < mnemoc> don't know exactly if this is better ;)
01:21 < mnemoc> they can forgot the check a tunnel but they can't loose a prisioner from the car
01:21 < mnemoc> prisioner is not the right word, but i don't now the one :)
01:21 < mnemoc> detain?
01:21 < mnemoc> detainee i guess
01:21 < mnemoc> 1472 builds total, 1114 completed fine, 28 with errors. <-- i have to finish mnemosyne.in rewrite and start fixing :|
01:21 < mnemoc> prelude-manager failed
01:21 < mnemoc> In file included from ../../../src/include/db.h:27, from mysql.c:36:
01:21 < mnemoc> /opt/prelude/include/libprelude/list.h:70: error: conflicting types for 'list_add'
01:21 < mnemoc> ùíù _Jeru_ [~jeru@p54BFE01C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
01:22 < _Jeru_> prisioner is not the right word, but i don't now the one :) <=== was the last
01:22 < _Jeru_> :)
01:22 < mnemoc> :)
01:22 < _Jeru_> grrr... prelude-manager problem
01:23 < _Jeru_> and I thought I can go sleep soon ;)
01:23 < mnemoc> =)
01:24 -!- j3ru [~jeru@p54BFAF2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
01:24 < mnemoc> don't froget postgresql/heimdal :)
01:25 < _Jeru_> ahh.. now I remember :)
01:25 < _Jeru_> there was something
01:26 < _Jeru_> mnemoc: we need a bugtracker ;)
01:26 < mnemoc> www2.t2-project.org has :)
01:26 < _Jeru_> oops
01:28 < _Jeru_> grrr
01:28 < _Jeru_> Build-Pkg heimdal
01:29 < mnemoc> uhm?
01:29 < mnemoc> why that?
01:29 < _Jeru_> wasn't build
01:29 < _Jeru_> not included in target
01:29 < _Jeru_> forgot it
01:29 < _Jeru_> mea culpa
01:30 < _Jeru_> :)
01:30 < mnemoc> uhm
01:30 < mnemoc> that way it wont work
01:30 < _Jeru_> what way ... building it in stage 9?
01:30 < mnemoc> you have to add it to the conf you use to re-emerge the dependent packages
01:30 < mnemoc> yep
01:31 < _Jeru_> ok
01:31 < _Jeru_> canceling
01:43 * _Jeru_ 's critter switched to "terror mode" ... :)
01:44 < _Jeru_> mnemoc: I think I will start a new build over night to see what's happening ....
01:44 < _Jeru_> I'm quite tired ... will go sleep soon
01:46 < _Jeru_> will report tomorow/today ;)
02:01 < _Jeru_> mnemoc: in the radio they said that Paul Schäfer will be deported to chile
02:03 < mnemoc> re
02:04 < mnemoc> _Jeru_: here they said 'tomorrow' :)
02:04 < _Jeru_> :)
02:04 < mnemoc> he will pass the night abandoned on the frontier :)
02:23 -!- _Jeru_ [~jeru@p54BFE01C.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #t2 []
02:34 -!- ideal [~idealm_@61.49.183.223] has joined #t2
02:59 -!- _Ragnar_ [loki@66-146-166-62.skyriver.net] has joined #t2
03:14 -!- _Ragnar__ [loki@66-146-166-62.skyriver.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:28 -!- mtr__ [~michael@H944a.h.pppool.de] has joined #t2
03:39 -!- ojh [~omer@71-34-254-232.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #t2
03:40 < mnemoc> hi ojh
03:40 < ojh> Hi :)
03:42 < mnemoc> if you have doubts about T2 or how to port your patches to it, don't doubt to ask
03:42 < ojh> Just a thought, what if the configuration system (like STONE components) exported an interface over dbus, then it would be trivial to wright user level front ends that would run the root level code by "remote"
03:44 < mnemoc> most of our scripts will be rewritten into C++ for 2.2, and 2.1.0 will be released on 1-2 weeks, all this improvements will be considered
03:44 < ojh> Optional, of cource, you would now want to have to compile dbus into a router after all.
03:44 < mnemoc> :)
03:45 < ojh> Yes, a STONE written in C++ would make for a snappy config tool.
03:47 < ojh> Do you remember the tool 'Linuxconf'? I remember really liking it as a nice centralized tool with both a terminal and GTK face. It had an impressive collection of plugins for just about everything under the sun.
03:48 -!- mtr_ [~michael@Hb5f0.h.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:48 < ojh> But it seems to become unmaintained in favor of distro specific tools :(
03:49 < mnemoc> you don't need to make your distro dependant on an specific tool
03:49 < mnemoc> they can be used only as helpers
03:50 < mnemoc> btw, linuxconf still alive, and i like it. but the project prefers something lighter
03:50 < mnemoc> but multiple interfaces for it is on the wishlist
03:57 -!- rxr_ [~rene@p213.54.199.53.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
03:57 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | 2.1.0-beta3 RELEASED | The next generation of System Development Enviroments (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | @CeBIT Hall 6 H30-532
03:57 -!- Topic set by valentin [] [Thu Mar 10 18:02:19 2005]
03:57 [Users #t2]
03:57 [ _Ragnar_] [ jsaw ] [ mtr__] [ Postal] [ valentin]
03:57 [ CIA-2 ] [ keinek] [ nzg ] [ rxr ]
03:57 [ ideal ] [ mnemoc] [ ojh ] [ rxr_ ]
03:57 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
03:57 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
03:57 -!- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
03:57 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 10 secs
03:57 < mnemoc> there is rockplug and rocknet, two projects born from the needs of rocklinux community
03:58 < mnemoc> rockplug is being reworked on c++ here
03:58 < mnemoc> a simple and extensible user-friendly project have to born too
03:59 < mnemoc> user-friendly configuration project*
03:59 -!- rxr [~rene@p213.54.200.197.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
04:00 < ojh> GREAT! These 2 tools are what convinced me to try ROCK as my main OS. These solutions seemed SO MUCH simpler and more elegant then what the other distros use.
04:01 < mnemoc> that's the idea :)
04:01 < ojh> Does that mean that ROCK-Plug will cache the hw config between boots to improve boot times?
04:03 < mnemoc> http://svn.exactcode.de/hotplug++/trunk/
04:04 < mnemoc> jsaw, the author of rockplug and hotplug++, can answer you more precisely about it
04:04 < ojh> IC.
04:05 < mnemoc> rockplus is slow because it's written in bash
04:05 < mnemoc> but it does cache
04:07 < ojh> Oh. Then it should just fly implemented in C++ :)
04:07 < mnemoc> yeah :)
04:12 < ojh> What is the relationship between the installation process and STONE, from what I remember the install CD basically started stone and offered the package selection screen after some sort of disk formatting tool. Can it be scripted a little along the lines of Anaconda (RH installer)?
04:13 < ojh> For a slightly more 'wizard' like installation?
04:13 < mnemoc> i have read how anaconda works
04:14 < mnemoc> we want a modular installer
04:14 < mnemoc> currently bootdisk starts a plan C binary which gives you the change to load modules
04:15 < ojh> I agree, very modular but can be automated using scripts and templates.
04:15 < mnemoc> you get an image for the installer
04:15 < mnemoc> and starts the installer
04:15 < mnemoc> that installer is just 'stone install'
04:15 < mnemoc> after that, stone install chroot-s and run 'stone setup'
04:16 < ojh> Have you ever looked into LUA as an automation language?
04:16 < mnemoc> automatizable is a desire too
04:16 < mnemoc> nope, sorry
04:16 < mnemoc> but i guess you can help us on that field :)
04:18 < ojh> LUA is a very power and small embedded language. The whole thing has like a <200K run time footprint.
04:18 < ojh> And many powerful simi-OO and functional language features.
04:19 < mnemoc> do you use it to 'simulate' actions?
04:20 < ojh> Its very popular among game developers for very complex interaction scripting.
04:20 < mnemoc> nice
04:22 < ojh> It was developed for scientific programming, the language its self id the data file format of many programs, it can be used to serialize data like XML is used, except that its done in nested LUA 'lists'.
04:23 < mnemoc> like lisp?
04:23 < _Ragnar_> ooh?
04:23 < _Ragnar_> can you give me a link?
04:24 < mnemoc> http://www.lua.org/
04:24 < ojh> Being inherently designed to to automate and extend C/C++ programs it would be a potent addition to T2.
04:24 < ojh> Yes :)
04:24 < ojh> http://www.lua.org/pil/
04:24 < ojh> The complete book on LUA :D
04:24 < mnemoc> :)
04:25 < _Ragnar_> how easy is it to extend the language?
04:26 -!- keinek_ [~keinek@201.254.9.146] has joined #t2
04:26 < _Ragnar_> and: is it lgpl or bsd-licensed?
04:26 < ojh> It has a very simple C API for manipulating the stack of the LUA VM directly, its quite simple and strata forward.
04:27 < ojh> Basically BSD, its used in MANY OSS and commercial projects.
04:28 -!- keinek [~keinek@201.254.13.183] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:28 < _Ragnar_> kewl
04:28 < mnemoc> _Ragnar_: is that 'just what you need' for something?
04:28 < _Ragnar_> could very well be
04:29 < ojh> You also can create as many instances of the LUA VM as needed, it even has basic cooperative multi-threading in the language.
04:29 < _Ragnar_> if it works with mingw
04:29 < ojh> It is EXTREMAL portable ANSI C.
04:30 < _Ragnar_> I'm not worried about ansi, more about the use of unix specific libc functions
04:30 < ojh> Unlikely, considering the number of Windows games that LUA is in.
04:31 < _Ragnar_> ^_^
04:31 < _Ragnar_> kewl
04:31 < mnemoc> :)
04:32 < ojh> It can even be 'compiled' to byte code files, so you don't even need the src at run time.
04:32 < mnemoc> how stable is that bytecode?
04:33 < ojh> Stable? As in using pointers and dangerous nastiness like that?
04:33 < mnemoc> no no
04:34 < mnemoc> 3af today means one thing, but in the next version it means another thing
04:34 < ojh> Oh, compatibility between versions? Not sure.
04:35 < _Ragnar_> does it need own script files like tcl, or is it just the language core?
04:36 < ojh> All that is needed is to have the LUA engine linked to the host program. (the host program needs to export functions to the LUA environment of course)
04:36 < ojh> (for it to be usefull)
04:37 < mnemoc> sounds like sqllite :p
04:38 < ojh> Mmmmm, perhaps light stored procs is a embedded DB? :/
04:38 < ojh> LOL
04:38 < mnemoc> :)
04:38 < _Ragnar_> :)
04:39 < ojh> sqllight?!?!? Real programmers use a flat BerklyDB table :)
04:40 < ojh> (Its a joke)
04:40 < mnemoc> :)
04:41 < ojh> On a more serous note: how are the extensions being loaded by the C++ version of STONE? Are going to be DLopened?
04:43 < mnemoc> i _guess_ like 'plugins', dlopened after scanning a dir
04:45 < ojh> OTOH, The C++ program could be a "shell" that loads modules implemented in LUA, after all what is configuring a Linux system but reading and writing text files? (mostly)
04:46 < mnemoc> yep
04:46 < ojh> And a bytecode plugin can die without segfalting the host program too :)
04:47 < mnemoc> :)
04:48 < ojh> Basic file system functions are in LUA already, text processing too. That covers about 98% of configuration and maintance tasks in any Linux system . . . .
04:50 < ojh> And the reg-exp libs could be made visible to LUA easily enough . . .
04:53 < ojh> Well, I guess that with all the proper functions compiled in a single LUA host binary could be flexible enough to be a STONE like tool and the installer . . . .Mmmmmmm
04:54 < mnemoc> sounds very interesting
04:55 -!- ideal [~idealm_@61.49.183.223] has quit ["Leaving"]
04:55 < _Ragnar_> yea
04:56 < ojh> And as its history on game programming indicates LUA is quite fast and light, it will still be FAR more responsive then any BASH script. :D
04:56 < ojh> I remember one test showing that its faster then Python.
05:00 < ojh> I guess the place to start is see how much of sysfiles can be reimplemented in LUA.
05:02 < ojh> I may be out on a limb here, but if LUA supports cooperative multi-threading, would an init program in LUA be able to parallelize the startup?
05:04 < mnemoc> yes, but is that needed?
05:04 < ojh> Not likely . . . .
05:05 < ojh> I am impressed with T2's package selection, nicely organized and good selection :)
05:05 < mnemoc> the repositories?
05:05 < ojh> Yes.
05:06 < mnemoc> :)
05:06 < ojh> Even has Java in it. Have you seen the SWING-WT http://swingwt.sourceforge.net/ project?
05:16 < mnemoc> i'm not a java fan
05:16 < mnemoc> :)
05:16 < mnemoc> but i added java stuff to make ooo happy :p
05:17 < ojh> I don't like it much, or its little clone from Redmond ether. :/
05:18 < ojh> But with GJC and SwingWT a lot of programs written in Java could be instantly native.
05:18 < mnemoc> we have kaffe too
05:19 < ojh> Its is, as I recall working well on Kaffe too.
05:20 < ojh> It would be nice to run Jedit, etc as native GTK programs :)
05:21 < mnemoc> :)
05:37 -!- mnemoc_ [~amery@200.75.27.57] has joined #t2
05:43 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.27.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:50 < mnemoc_> :(
05:51 < ojh> ???
05:52 < mnemoc_> my 'shell server' is begin 'randomly disconnected' twice a day by the DSL provider (not ISP)
05:52 < ojh> Oh.
05:59 < _Ragnar_> sucks
05:59 < _Ragnar_> does it do dhcp?
06:02 < mnemoc_> pppoe
06:02 < mnemoc_> god bless dyndns
06:02 < _Ragnar_> ah
06:15 < mnemoc_> i'll go to sleep
06:15 < mnemoc_> cu tomorrow
06:26 < CIA-2> amery * r7379 /trunk/target/mnemosyne/mnemosyne.in: * improved and rewritten mnemosyne plugin processor, now it's almost readable :)
07:18 -!- Postal [~Postal@ool-4356292a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
07:37 -!- mipe [~mipe@dsl10040.japo.fi] has joined #t2
07:39 -!- ojh [~omer@71-34-254-232.eugn.qwest.net] has left #t2 []
09:55 < rxr_> hi
09:55 -!- You're now known as rxr
10:00 < CIA-2> rene * r7380 /trunk/scripts/functions: * added install_cron and install_postinstall functions
10:01 < rxr> mipe: a comment to the commit messages - please include what you did - not only updated or fixed - the package name is a must so one can see from the log entry what was changed ...
10:01 < rxr> mipe: that is updated package bla bllubs or fixed this and that package to ...
10:02 < _Ragnar_> hey rxr :)
10:02 < _Ragnar_> back from cebit?
10:14 < rxr> no - still cebit ...
10:14 < CIA-2> rene * r7381 /trunk/package/base/00-dirtree/data.txt: * added postinstall.d to 00-dirtree
10:16 < CIA-2> rene * r7382 /trunk/package/audio/ardour/ardour.desc: * updated ardour (0.9beta24 -> 0.9beta26)
10:20 < CIA-2> rene * r7383 /trunk/package/games/ (6 files in 6 dirs):
10:20 < CIA-2> * cleanups of way too dirty code in the games packages (done during
10:20 < CIA-2> cebit day 0 waiting for events ...)
10:34 < _Ragnar_> *hrhr*
10:39 < rxr> ouhm - the ffii is quite well messing op our booth ...
11:07 < mipe> rxr:do you have any idea why gcc gets broken on bootdisk(because of dietlibc?)... doesnt install header files(stddef.h,...)
11:09 < rxr> no idea off hand ...
11:13 < valentin> -/m
11:14 < valentin> oupts
11:14 < valentin> jjjjjjjjjjjjj
11:14 < valentin> no backspace kezy at rtxrs ibook ?
11:15 < valentin> moin
11:15 < mipe> hi valentin
11:15 < valentin> hi mipe
11:16 < _Ragnar_> goodnight folks
11:16 < valentin> cu _Ragnar_
11:56 -!- jeru [~jeru@p54BFBBFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
11:56 < jeru> moin ;)
12:04 < valentin> moin jeru
12:04 < jeru> hi valentin
12:19 < rxr> moin jeru
12:36 < jeru> moin rxr ... hope you had some time for recreation ?
12:48 < jsaw> hi all
12:53 < jeru> hi jsaw :)
12:53 < jsaw> hi jeru
12:55 * jeru is fighting with heimdal right now ;)
12:55 < jsaw> oh oh
12:55 < jeru> yep
12:56 < jeru> but I'll win ... hehe
12:56 < jsaw> :D
12:58 < rxr> hi jsaw !
12:58 < rxr> ok - let me upload a cebit photo
12:58 < jsaw> hi rxr, and, alive?
12:59 < rxr> yeah !
12:59 < rxr> sure
13:02 < jsaw> photo?
13:14 < rxr> http://gsmp.tfh-berlin.de/rene/photos/cebit-2005/
13:14 < rxr> some nice gallery pending ..
13:14 < rxr> as well as more photos ..
13:17 < jeru> rxr: the 3 iBooks are looking nice ;)
13:17 < jsaw> some guy from my lab wants to reactivate his revo. I warned not to let it alone in the lab for too long, otherwise he'll find Linux on it , hehe
13:17 < jeru> :D
13:18 < jeru> t2 prject is full of hijackers ;)
13:19 < jsaw> eh, eh, nononoNO
13:19 < jsaw> .oO(I deny everything)
13:19 < jeru> now you do
13:20 < jsaw> I deny that I deny
13:20 < jeru> haha
13:20 < jsaw> :]
13:22 < jsaw> rxr: why do you use e2fs for psion-pda? Wouldn't cramfs or so be better?
13:23 < rxr> yes - I just wanted to get it working
13:23 < rxr> for the final version I wanna have squashfs ...
13:24 < jsaw> ic
13:25 < jeru> rxr: squashfs is nice ... reduced an image from 7.5M -> 3.2M
13:25 < jsaw> .oO(should get the reworked distcd target out...)
13:25 < rxr> it did not shrink mine that much ..
13:25 < rxr> but noticeable ...
13:26 < rxr> and I hope ram useage of the running system would be lower since the FS is kept compressed AFAIHR ...
13:26 < jsaw> yes, it is kept compressed
13:27 < rxr> just that half a year ago my psion did not boot with a squashfs initrd ...
13:27 < rxr> oopsed ...
13:27 < jsaw> I have almost a full system (with all kernel modules) under 16Mb. With proper tweaking, the bootdisk will be below 8Mb
13:27 < jsaw> So wont have to care for "small" anymore...
14:27 < jsaw> cu later
14:27 < jeru> cu jsaw
15:08 < mipe> so freshly built mnemosyne is allmost done(3 packages left) with no errors. but its time to start reading to exams. have to postbone bootdisk checkup to monday or tuesday
15:09 -!- mipe [~mipe@dsl10040.japo.fi] has quit ["reading"]
16:02 < rxr> btw susan is packaging gpe just for fun / just to prevent duplicate work ...
16:14 * jeru has almost cutted of a finger during home work :/
16:14 < rxr> where is CIA _
16:14 < rxr> ? even
16:14 < rxr> damn valentin altered my X key layout ... :-(
16:14 < jeru> yep
16:14 < rxr> jeru: what ?
16:15 < jeru> 1,5 cm wound
16:15 < valentin> rxr: hehe
16:16 < jeru> it's bleeding like hell ... damn
16:23 < rxr> damn
16:26 < valentin> jeru: .oO don't kill your self
16:50 < jeru> valentin: this wasn't my intention ;)
16:52 -!- c4y0 [~cmora@200.75.68.67] has joined #t2
16:52 < c4y0> hi
16:52 < jeru> hi
16:53 < rxr> hi c4y0
16:56 < c4y0> how i can search some package to install? by example, i need BitchX, but cant found it :\
17:03 -!- jeru [~jeru@p54BFBBFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
17:03 < jsaw> c4y0: grep -i bitchx packages/ -R for example
17:03 < mnemoc_> moin
17:04 < jsaw> c4y0: eh, I mean package/
17:04 < jsaw> mnemoc_: hi
17:05 -!- jeru [~jeru@p54BFEC82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
17:05 < jeru> re
17:06 < jeru> damn "T-Offline"
17:06 < mnemoc_> hi jsaw, jeru :)
17:06 < jeru> hi mnemoc
17:07 < jsaw> T-Dated
17:07 < jsaw> or T-Outdated
17:07 < jsaw> T-imeworn
17:08 < mnemoc_> :(
17:09 < jsaw> yes. They always make a hype about the speed, but still can't offer access with a fast upload path
17:09 < jeru> I had never so much problems with DSL than in my current location
17:10 < jeru> I think they love "fingering around" on their DSLAM's on sunday
17:10 < jsaw> .oO
17:11 < mnemoc_> jsaw: clisp! :)
17:11 * mnemoc_ hungry
17:11 < jsaw> mnemoc_: btw, java was one of the reasons to use ximian-ooo
17:11 < rxr> hi mnemoc_
17:11 < jsaw> mnemoc_: they had the patches for a working ooo without java
17:12 < mnemoc_> hi jsaw
17:12 < mnemoc_> err
17:12 < mnemoc_> hi rxr
17:12 < jsaw> :)
17:13 < mnemoc_> i have no problems continue trying with ximian's, but they release the builder about 3-4 weeks delayed with their mXX
17:13 < jsaw> I know... I just wanted to note it.
17:15 < mnemoc_> i can't even build m82 with blackdown-jdk :(
17:15 < jsaw> ?
17:15 < mnemoc_> i have ant too
17:15 < jsaw> :(
17:15 < mnemoc_> and m79 neither
17:15 < jsaw> I have to admit, that I like ooo. But it's a damn mess...
17:15 < mnemoc_> like mozilla's :(
17:16 < jsaw> yep
17:16 < mnemoc_> 1472 builds total, 1269 completed fine, 57 with errors. <--- aarg
17:17 < rxr> mnemoc_: my postinstall and cron changes are untested
17:17 < rxr> might need trivial fixes ...
17:17 < mnemoc_> why not auto installing .cron and .init ?
17:18 < rxr> mnemoc_: on the openoffice both there was noone ever built ooo
17:18 < rxr> they all use the prebuilt ...
17:18 < rxr> I guess for well known good reasons ...
17:18 < c4y0> im back!
17:18 < rxr> a suse director we mad
17:19 < mnemoc_> a suse director you mad?
17:19 < mnemoc_> how that?
17:19 < rxr> met here also told use they let the ost eupore suse folks do the ooo packaging and he thinks they sacrificed some chicks while doining so ..
17:20 < c4y0> how can i find a package in the mirrors servers?
17:20 < mnemoc_> c4y0: uhm?
17:20 < mnemoc_> the usage of mirror is transparent
17:21 < jsaw> on my lab PC, I managed to compile ooo (ximian verison) by hand... but never with the build scripts...
17:22 < mnemoc_> .oO
17:23 < mnemoc_> what about using ximian version, and extracting their patches out of the builder?
17:24 < CIA-2> jsaw * r7390 /trunk/ (16 files in 5 dirs):
17:24 < CIA-2> * completly resorting the distcd target:
17:24 < CIA-2> * moved generally target related functions to misc/target
17:24 < CIA-2> * cleanup the initrd build procedure
17:24 < CIA-2> WORK IN PROGRESS!!!
17:24 < jsaw> to much work... they have a special script to apply patches because the patches are not ordered and interfere with each other...
17:24 < mnemoc_> :\
17:25 < jeru> mnemoc: why aren't you using ipsvd in your run scripts e.g. slapd ?
17:25 < jeru> is there a reason for it?
17:26 < mnemoc_> i haven't found a good way to integrate it automaticly
17:26 < jeru> ahh ok
17:26 < rxr> well - we could extract the patches and just prepend a sorting number ...
17:27 < jsaw> that's what I meant with "too much work"...
17:27 < jsaw> .oO(at least I was too lazy to do this job...)
17:28 < rxr> hm - I noticed here ooo is quite too important for normal people
17:29 < rxr> guess we really have to get it working some time soon ...
17:29 < mnemoc_> yep
17:29 < jsaw> dito
17:29 < rxr> btw. we decided the next desktop target will ship as a live cd for product review and feature a graphical installer that will then guide thru the installation directly from this running system ...
17:30 < rxr> guess that is the most amazing and user friendly way to promote alternative systems to the masses ...
17:30 < jsaw> good decision .oO(but don't remind me of the work necessary....)
17:31 < mnemoc_> ojh last night was talking about using LUA
17:32 < mnemoc_> he is doing zero-install work on rock, but he seems to be a 'bit' bored
17:32 < jsaw> I only read a few char[]
17:32 < jsaw> mnemoc_, could you outline it
17:33 < mnemoc_> what part? zero-install or lua?
17:34 < jsaw> lua
17:35 < mnemoc_> It would be nice to have the core configuration tool rewritten and some what updated. And a slightly more flexible (script-able) installer.
17:36 < mnemoc_> Have you ever looked into LUA as an automation language?
17:36 < mnemoc_> LUA is a very power and small embedded language. The whole thing has like a <200K run time footprint.
17:36 < mnemoc_> And many powerful simi-OO and functional language features.
17:36 < mnemoc_> Its very popular among game developers for very complex interaction scripting.
17:37 < mnemoc_> It was developed for scientific programming, the language its self id the data file format of many programs, it can be used to
17:37 < mnemoc_> serialize data like XML is used, except that its done in nested LUA 'lists'.
17:37 < mnemoc_> Being inherently designed to to automate and extend C/C++ programs it would be a potent addition to T2.
17:37 < mnemoc_> http://www.lua.org/pil/
17:37 < mnemoc_> The complete book on LUA :D
17:38 < mnemoc_> It has a very simple C API for manipulating the stack of the LUA VM directly, its quite simple and strata forward.
17:38 < mnemoc_> Basically BSD, its used in MANY OSS and commercial projects.
17:38 < mnemoc_> ojh> You also can create as many instances of the LUA VM as needed, it even has basic cooperative multi-threading in the language.
17:39 < mnemoc_> It is EXTREMAL portable ANSI C.
17:39 < mnemoc_> It can even be 'compiled' to byte code files, so you don't even need the src at run time.
17:40 < mnemoc_> everything started with:
17:40 < mnemoc_> Just a thought, what if the configuration system (like STONE components) exported an interface over dbus, then it would be trivial to wright user level front ends that would run the root level code by "remote"
17:40 < mnemoc_> Optional, of cource, you would now want to have to compile dbus into a router after all.
17:41 < mnemoc_> i guess that's all
17:42 < jsaw> lua looks interesting actually.
17:43 < mnemoc_> i liked the bytecode part, that would make light tools written in a simple language
17:44 < mnemoc_> <_Ragnar_> does it need own script files like tcl, or is it just the language core?
17:44 < mnemoc_> All that is needed is to have the LUA engine linked to the host program. (the host program needs to export functions to the LUA environment of course)
17:44 < mnemoc_> OTOH, The C++ program could be a "shell" that loads modules implemented in LUA, after all what is configuring a Linux system but reading and writing text files? (mostly)
17:44 < mnemoc_> Basic file system functions are in LUA already, text processing too. That covers about 98% of configuration and maintance tasks in any Linux system . . . .
17:45 < mnemoc_> And the reg-exp libs could be made visible to LUA easily enough . . .
17:45 < mnemoc_> Well, I guess that with all the proper functions compiled in a single LUA host binary could be flexible enough to be a STONE like tool and the installer . . . .Mmmmmmm
17:45 < mnemoc_> And as its history on game programming indicates LUA is quite fast and light, it will still be FAR more responsive then any BASH script. :D
17:45 < mnemoc_> I remember one test showing that its faster then Python.
17:46 < jeru> mnemoc : 5-heimdal.err
17:46 < jeru> The package build aborted with the following config error:
17:46 < jeru> pkgprefix: package openldap is not present
17:46 < mnemoc_> uhm
17:46 < mnemoc_> mom
17:47 < mnemoc_> if [ "$ROCKCFG_PKG_HEIMDAL_LDAP" = "1" ]; then
17:47 < mnemoc_> pkgprefix -t openldap
17:48 < mnemoc_> how can openldap not be present and ROCKCFG_PKG_HEIMDAL_LDAP set to 1??
17:48 < rxr> ok - we are off - cu
17:48 < jeru> cu all@cebit ;)
17:49 < mnemoc_> jeru: will you go?
17:49 < jeru> unfortunately not
17:50 < jeru> i just mean {rxr,valentin,susann}=all@cebit
17:50 < mnemoc_> :)
17:50 < jeru> mnemoc: of course I've ROCKCFG_PKG_HEIMDAL_LDAP set to 1
17:51 < jeru> mnemoc: can't type fast because I almost cutted of a finger today :/
17:52 < mnemoc_> 9 fingers?
17:52 < mnemoc_> how?
17:53 < jeru> with a sharp knife in the kitchen ...
17:53 < mnemoc_> uhm heimdal/ldap egg/chicken
17:53 < jsaw> mnemoc_: thanks
17:53 < jeru> yep
17:53 < jeru> ^ mnemoc
17:53 < mnemoc_> i'll have to add heimdal to stage 3
17:54 < jeru> I also had heimdal/curl problems ... but solved it
17:54 < mnemoc_> heimdal needs curl?
17:54 < jeru> because curl was trying to use krb-config during stage 1
17:55 < jeru> hack_krb5_flags.in
17:55 < mnemoc_> but there is a check
17:55 < mnemoc_> or not?
17:55 < jeru> nope I think
17:55 < jeru> added one to -> pkg_curl_post.conf
17:56 < jeru> if pkginstalled heimdal && [ $stagelevel -ge 5 ]; then
17:56 < jeru> . package/*/heimdal/hack_krb5_flags.in
17:56 < jeru> fi
17:56 < jeru> is that ok ?
17:56 < mnemoc_> nope :p
17:56 < jeru> hmmm ... what's wrong
17:56 < mnemoc_> pkg_${foo}_post.conf are only loaded if the package is loaded
17:56 < mnemoc_> so pkginstalled is not needed
17:57 < mnemoc_> and stagelevel -ge 5 apply to every post file sourcing hack_krb5_flags.in
17:57 < jeru> :/
17:57 < mnemoc_> if the package is enabled i mean
17:57 < mnemoc_> so the fix goes inside hack_krb5_flags.in
17:58 < jsaw> soon dinner preparation at my in-laws house... so me off now, cu!
17:58 < mnemoc_> cu jsaw :)
17:58 < jeru> bye bye jsaw
17:59 -!- c4y0 [~cmora@200.75.68.67] has quit ["i back soon!"]
18:00 < jeru> mnemoc: should we check stagelevel in hack_krb5_flags.in ?
18:01 < mnemoc_> i guess... but i'll have to re-read the whole heimdal thing
18:01 < mnemoc_> yes
18:01 < mnemoc_> you or i?
18:02 -!- c4y0 [~c4y0@cable200-116-158-64.epm.net.co] has joined #t2
18:02 < c4y0> hi again! =)
18:02 < jeru> I've to do this ... ;)
18:02 < mnemoc_> :)
18:02 < jeru> mnemoc has to switch into fallback mode ;)
18:03 < mnemoc_> hehe
18:03 < jeru> but we also add heimdal in stage 3
18:04 < mnemoc_> i'm doing that
18:04 < jeru> ack
18:06 < mnemoc_> .oO( why am i building it on stage 7? )o
18:06 < jeru> ?
18:10 < CIA-2> amery * r7391 /trunk/package/security/heimdal/ (heimdal.conf heimdal.desc):
18:10 < CIA-2> * changed heimdal to build on stage 3 and not stage 7
18:10 < CIA-2> * repriorized heimdal after openldap
18:10 < CIA-2> * changed heimdal to build ldap support only after stage 5 (and after openldap is built)
18:15 -!- c4y0 [~c4y0@cable200-116-158-64.epm.net.co] has quit ["c4y0 has no reason"]
18:17 < CIA-2> chris * r7392 /trunk/package/security/heimdal/hack_krb5_flags.in: * added $stagelevel check
18:18 < mnemoc_> jeru: can you try with ./scripts/Create-ErrList -newdelete ?
18:20 < jeru> newdelete ?
18:20 < mnemoc_> that will remove every package modified on the tree
18:20 < jeru> not -remove heimdal ?
18:21 < mnemoc_> ok, -remove heimdal curl openldap :p
18:21 < jeru> ./scripts/Create-ErrList -cfg r40 -newdelete
18:21 < jeru> Scheduling package '00-dirtree' for rebuild ...
18:21 < jeru> Scheduling package 'cron' for rebuild ...
18:21 < jeru> hmm ???
18:22 < mnemoc_> who changed those?
18:22 < jeru> ahhh rxr ... did some changes
18:22 < mnemoc_> where the heck is my mail server today??!!
18:22 < jeru> gone away ?
18:22 < mnemoc_> port 22: Connection timed out
18:23 < jeru> entered by black hat ?
18:23 < mnemoc_> i hope not
18:24 < jeru> I hope too
18:25 < mnemoc_> i guess link problem
18:25 < jeru> curl stage 1 :
18:26 < jeru> configure: Configured to build curl/libcurl:
18:26 < jeru> curl version: 7.13.1
18:26 < jeru> Host setup: i686-t2-linux-gnu
18:26 < jeru> Install prefix: /usr
18:26 < jeru> Compiler: i686-t2-linux-gnu-gcc
18:26 < jeru> SSL support: no (--with-ssl)
18:26 < jeru> zlib support: enabled
18:26 < jeru> krb4 support: no (--with-krb4*)
18:26 < jeru> GSSAPI support: no (--with-gssapi)
18:26 < jeru> SPNEGO support: no (--with-spnego)
18:26 < jeru> c-ares support: no (--enable-ares)
18:26 < jeru> ipv6 support: no (--enable-ipv6)
18:26 < jeru> IDN support: no (--with-libidn)
18:26 < jeru> Build libcurl: Shared=yes, Static=yes
18:26 < jeru> Built-in manual: enabled
18:26 < jeru> Verbose errors: enabled (--disable-verbose)
18:26 < jeru> :)
18:26 < jeru> works so far
18:29 < mnemoc_> routing problems or their ISP :(
18:29 < jeru> :(
18:37 < mnemoc_> i have to go to lunch where my in-laws :)
18:37 < mnemoc_> cu
18:37 < jeru> cu
19:03 < CIA-2> mtr * r7393 /trunk/package/multimedia/dvdrip/dvdrip.desc: * tagged dvdrip as NOPARALLEL
19:34 -!- keinek_ [~keinek@201.254.9.146] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
19:37 -!- _Ragnar__ [loki@66-146-166-62.skyriver.net] has joined #t2
19:49 -!- _Ragnar_ [loki@66-146-166-62.skyriver.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:56 -!- _Ragnar__ is now known as _Ragnar_
21:06 < rxr> re
21:07 < rxr> yeah - the postinstall and cron_install stuff is untested - hope it is fine ...
21:11 < rxr> mnemoc_: susan and I found the bug why the gome panel menus are not shown
21:11 < rxr> we will patch it tomorrow until lunch and search why some icons are not shown ...
21:11 < rxr> (maybe that is the same ...)
21:12 < rxr> so if you have better stuff to do - just await the fix ...
21:12 < rxr> cu all - /me in bed ..
21:16 < jeru> good n8 rxr
21:39 -!- ojh [~omer@67-42-182-158.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #t2
21:51 -!- _jeru_ [~jeru@p54BFF7DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
21:53 -!- jeru [~jeru@p54BFEC82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:53 < _jeru_> damn ISP
23:10 < valentin> hi from within a win XP putty
23:11 < valentin> nice - putty quite advanced since i have used it last time
23:11 < valentin> even handles quite complicated ncurses stuff now
23:12 < valentin> ok 20 minutes are enough win xp for today.
23:12 < valentin> cu and gn8
23:12 < CIA-2> jsaw * r7394 /trunk/target/distcd/preconfig.in: * NOTE to self: don't use ' in preconfig.in
23:39 < jsaw> mnemoc_: ping
--- Log closed Mon Mar 14 00:00:46 2005