--- Log opened Sun Nov 28 00:00:13 2004
00:03 < rxr> hi praenti 
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10:52 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | the system development environment | http://www.exactcode.de/t2
10:52 -!- Topic set by valentin [] [Sun Nov  7 16:41:27 2004]
10:52 [Users #t2]
10:52 [ _martin_] [ CIA-9 ] [ jsaw  ] [ praenti] [ rxr_     ] [ valentin] 
10:52 [ _Ragnar_] [ daja77] [ mnemoc] [ rxr    ] [ sparc-kly] 
10:52 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 11 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 11 normal]
10:52 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug  8 21:15:33 2004
10:52 -!- [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
10:53 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 11 secs
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12:03 < _martin_> moin
12:10 < mnemoc> moin _martin_ 
12:43 < jsaw> re
12:43 < jsaw> 21:50 < mnemoc> where is jsaw when i need him? :(
12:43 < jsaw> ?
12:52 < valentin> moin
12:53 < valentin> spelling error: where is rxr when we need him ? ;)
12:53 < jsaw> :)
12:53 < jsaw> hi valentin 
12:57 < valentin> btw: managed to understand the relevant parts of analytical mechanics - remaining question is: how to learn and remember it ?
12:57 < jsaw> good question...
13:24 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4870 /trunk/package/gnome2/evolution-webcal/evolution-webcal.desc: 
13:24 < CIA-9> * roll back evolution-webcal (2.1.0 -> 2.0.1)
13:24 < CIA-9>  (-> 2.1 is development version and won't
13:24 < CIA-9>  fit with evolution-data-server/evolution)
13:34 -!- mtr [~michael@H99e6.h.pppool.de] has joined #t2
13:35 < mnemoc> re
13:35 < mtr> hi
13:35 < jsaw> hi mnemoc, mtr
13:35 < mnemoc> jsaw: i told that the last time mtr was here :)
13:36 < jsaw> mnemoc: yes, why?
13:37 < mnemoc> mtr discovered why glibc and uclibc get mixed when entering chroot. it's because fl_wrapper.so :p
13:38 < mnemoc> btw, hi mtr
13:38 < mtr> hi mnemoc
13:39 < mnemoc> mtr, did you build finished?
13:39 < jsaw> ah, ok. My 2cents on it are the following: link fl_wrapper.so statically against dietlibc, add an environment variable like "FLWRAPPER_LIBC" where the name of the libc is stored that is to be wrapped... (if NULL -> use /lib/libc.so)
13:41 < jsaw> btw, have you read the thread on ROCK ml concerning the varargs thing of open?
13:41 < mtr> mnemoc: no, still running, building kde pkgs
13:42 < mnemoc> jsaw: not yet :(
13:43  * mnemoc reading "flist wrapper patch"
13:44 < mtr> jsaw: mnemoc had basically the same idea yesterday. possibly an evironment variable would be a more flexible solution, mnemoc?
13:44 < jsaw> me somehow guesses, if args are passed in registers, "..." is still passed on stack, so probably, the implementation has to change (as reported for x86_64) ...?
13:45 < mnemoc> jsaw: highly probable
13:46 < jsaw> mtr,mnemoc: in contrast to glibc, dietlibc can be built statically, so are commands launched via a statically built command detected by fl_wrapper or not?
13:46 < jsaw> or file-io
13:46 < mnemoc> i don't think so
13:46 < jsaw> hmmm....
13:47 < jsaw> uclibc? is it dynamic by default, mtr?
13:47 < mtr> my understanding was, that the problem is not the linkage of fl_wrapper.so itself, rather then the method of resolving symbols
13:48 < mnemoc> but you said you missed entries using the other methid
13:49 < mtr> yes, the install_init funtion bypasses the uclibc-wrappers in any way
13:49 < mtr> basically i am missing the .init files, other seems to be ok
13:51 < mnemoc> i guess wil happen to every parse-config function
13:58 < mnemoc> i'll build a runit based minimal, which does extensive use of parse-config functions, against uclibc which your change to fl_wrapper
13:58 < mnemoc> s/which/with/
14:17 < mtr> i cannot locate the code for install_init, which does the .init processing, can someone help?
14:23 < mnemoc> sysvinit's parse-config
14:24 < mnemoc> mtr: sysvinit's parse-config
14:25 -!- You're now known as rxr
14:25 < rxr> moin
14:28 < mtr> hmm, install_init calls m4 and redirected stdout creates the .init file
14:28 < mtr> so the shells syscalls have to be intercepted, but the executing shell is the host systems shell using glibc, right?
14:29 < mtr> moin rxr
14:30 < rxr> damn - my home line is that saturated that a ssh into the world takes 20s or so ..
14:30 < rxr> I need to setup traffic shaping ...
14:30 < rxr> ouhm - latency is around 8s or so ...
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14:40 < mnemoc> mtr: on chroot it's not :)
14:45 < jsaw> can somebody tell me the file size of the octave-forge package?
14:46 < rxr> binary or source
14:46 < rxr> ?
14:46 < rxr> I'll reboot my rs/6k soon ...
14:48 < jsaw> binary
14:48 < jsaw> usr/libexec/octave/2.1.59/site/oct/i586-unknown-linux-gnu/octave-forge/
14:48 < jsaw> contains 59 files of size
14:49 < jsaw> ->  39M  <-
14:55 < rxr> 258 files on my iBook ...
14:55 < rxr> bu many symlink
14:55 < rxr> s
14:57 < rxr> .oo
14:57 < rxr> 594M	total
14:57 < rxr> Package Size: 601.24 MB, 1059 files
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15:00 < jsaw> rxr: okay, so you seem to have the same problem.
15:01 < rxr> I seem to have a bigger problem .-(
15:01 < rxr> hm - if yaboot is able to load this kernel:
15:01 < rxr> 6516893 Nov 28 14:54 vmlinux_2.6.9-rock
15:01 < rxr> ^- .oO
15:01 < jsaw> unpacked, octave-forge is 3.5G
15:01 < jsaw> rxr: ohoh
15:01 < rxr> we ned a new name for the kernel images ;-)
15:02 < rxr> what about -precompiled ? or just -pc
15:02 < rxr> ?
15:02 < jsaw> -dist
15:03 < rxr> a - dist is nice ;-)
15:04 < rxr> I should do other things - and just because my brother saturates my home line I setup a 2.6 kernel in my rs6k just to get traffic shaping ...
15:04 < jsaw> hehe
15:06 < rxr> ok - cu - /me rebooting the router
15:06 < rxr> and hopefully it boots this fat kernel ...
--- Log closed Sun Nov 28 15:06:37 2004
--- Log opened Sun Nov 28 15:48:21 2004
15:49 < rxr> test log
15:49 < rxr> good ;-)
16:16 < CIA-9> rene * r4871 /trunk/architecture/share/kernel-common.conf: 
16:16 < CIA-9> * space reduction for the default kernels: no included .config nor
16:16 < CIA-9>  PCI name database (we have user-space tools for this anyway)
16:17 < CIA-9> rene * r4872 /trunk/package/base/linux24/ (linux24.conf lx_config.sh): 
16:17 < CIA-9> * fixed linux* packages to install the various PPC kernels with
16:17 < CIA-9>  version appended and changed the default kernel ending from -rock
16:17 < CIA-9>  to -dist
16:27 < rxr> http://www.petitiononline.com/3dc4rdlb/petition.html
16:28 < mnemoc> *click
16:29 < rxr> http://lists.duskglow.com/mailman/listinfo/open-graphics
16:29 < rxr> http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/04/11/28/018227.shtml
16:36 < CIA-9> rene * r4873 /trunk/target/bootdisk/ (powerpc/build.sh sparc/build.sh x86/build.sh): * migrated bootdisk boot loader setup to new -dist kernel name ending
16:41 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4874 /trunk/package/scientific/octave/octave.conf: 
16:41 < CIA-9> * create shared libs for octave
16:41 < CIA-9> (reduces size of octave-forge package from 800 to 15Mb!!!)
16:42 < rxr> ui!
16:42 < rxr> thanks!
16:46 < mnemoc> oh
16:47 -!- CorLis [~wehrlin@p3E9E6D1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2
16:47 < CorLis> guggug
16:47 < jsaw> <- gone, cu l8r
16:47 < CorLis> laters jsaw 
16:47 < rxr> cu jsaw 
16:49 < CorLis> hrm. i see updates happen quite regularly...
16:49 < CorLis> May i ask how patches are chosen? or versions of apps?
16:49 < rxr> CorLis: yes - I hope this is good ;-)
16:49 < rxr> version are normally most up-to-date stable releases
16:50 < rxr> patches are only applied if needed for compile or security - normally no features or t2 specific hacks are included
16:50 < CorLis> good thing to have up-to-date-versions in a security-manner
16:51 < CorLis> I rather don't like patching a bleeding-edge app to another bleeding-more app, tho :P
16:52 < CorLis> so it's mostly patches to common, or better: known issues
16:52 < CorLis> like fixing a samba-security problem, ... (and the patch is something official)
16:52 < rxr> I prefer stable versions in t2 - however some packages are at -rc or -pre due to known issues in the former - or the maintainer just wanting it ...
16:53 < rxr> e.g. icewm is often at the latest -pre release just because the maintainer at rock submitted any version update possible ...
16:53 < CorLis> Ok, i understand that, if an app is still in a very evolving state
16:54 < mnemoc> or if it's almost releasing a new major version which will deprecate current stable
16:55 < mnemoc> e.g. mono
16:55 < mnemoc> or xfce
16:56 < CorLis> hrm. nod, i understand
16:57 < mnemoc> that's because they will be released before we tag stable :)
16:58 < mnemoc> or a few days after
16:59 < mnemoc> that allow us to update the stable, and not getting froze on a deprecated tree, without breaking stability
17:00 < CorLis> urm
17:00 < CorLis> Config config/default/config doesn't exist...
17:01 < mnemoc> that's created after you do a config
17:01 < mnemoc> Config*
17:02 < CorLis> nod, file exists...
17:02 < mnemoc> ./scripts/Config -cfg corlis    ---> config/corlis/{config,packages}
17:03 < CorLis> hrm, k, didn't specify a cfg-name when configuring
17:03 < mnemoc> ./scripts/Config --> config/default/{config,packages}
17:04 < CIA-9> rene * r4875 /trunk/package/audio/jack/jack.conf: * enabled jacks startjack wrapper to gain realtime capabilities
17:06 < CorLis> Hrm. config/corlis/config doesn't exist...
17:06 < CorLis> but file exists...
17:06 < CorLis> doh
17:07 < mnemoc> o_O
17:07 < mnemoc> using what script?
17:07 < CorLis> ./scripts/Download -cfg config/corlis/config -required
17:08 < CorLis> ./scripts/Download -cfg config/corlis/config does a successful mirror-choosing, first
17:08 < mnemoc> ./scripts/Download -cfg corlis -required
17:08 < CorLis> ah, that working
17:08 < mnemoc> :)
17:08 < CorLis> hrm. someone gotta rewrite that help then! :P
17:09 < CorLis> is t2 somewhat based on lfs, btw?
17:09 < mnemoc> nope
17:09 < CorLis> or was it a totally new approach
17:10 < mnemoc> LFS is a book to build your own linux machine
17:10 < mnemoc> T2 is a kit to crate an maintain distributions
17:10 < CorLis> that's why i've said "somewhat" :P
17:11 < mnemoc> both build source :)
17:11 < CIA-9> rene * r4876 /trunk/package/audio/bio2jack/bio2jack.conf: 
17:11 < CIA-9> * fixed bio2jack to actually install it's bio2jack.h ... (well - many
17:11 < CIA-9>  packages include a private copy for this reasons - but I do not want
17:11 < CIA-9>  to copy the file into any project ...)
17:12 < rxr> CorLis: no - t2 is not based or LFS - not inspiried or ao ..
17:12 < CorLis> thanks :P
17:12 < mnemoc> we are more based on 'man gcc' than on LFS :)
17:12 < rxr> e.g. LFS does build the initial toolchain statically linked - we do not - and the rest of LFS is just an instruction for normal package builds and dependencies list - nothing we used
17:14 < rxr> CorLis: which doc does list incorrect Config or Download instructions? I would be happy to fix it ;-)
17:16 < CorLis> Documentation/BUILD
17:16 < rxr> ouh - we should remove those ;_)
17:16 < rxr> CorLis: did you notice the handbook?
17:16 < CorLis> *cough* It's sundays :P
17:17 < CorLis> ok, gotta smoke a cig :P
17:17 < rxr> http://www.exactcode.de/products/t2-handbook/
17:21 < CorLis> yup, have it :P
17:21 < CorLis> and laaaaters
17:21 -!- CorLis [~wehrlin@p3E9E6D1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"]
17:31 < rxr> mnemoc: I'm just fixing the the bootdisk stuff ...
17:32 < mnemoc> :D
19:40  * rxr rebooting the rs6k a few times - cu
--- Log closed Sun Nov 28 19:40:41 2004
--- Log opened Sun Nov 28 21:00:20 2004
21:00 < rxr> test
21:01 < mnemoc> 0
21:01 < rxr> seems yaboot does not want to load kernels bigger than 4.x MB or so ..
21:01 < rxr> but now I have a 2.6.9 running on the rs6k instead of the previous quite ancient 2.4.21 ;-)
21:01 < rxr> never touch a running syssttem
21:01 < rxr> system even
21:02 < mnemoc> how much downtime?
21:02 < rxr> especially if it is a rs6k needing 4 minutes or so for the power on self test ...
21:02 < mnemoc> oh
21:02 < rxr> oh - quite much - it is just my home router - so I even ocationally power it off when I leave for longer ...
21:03 < rxr> yeah - but the selftest is cool - showing progress on a 4 element dot matrix LED display ;-)
21:03 < rxr> and when it passes you can be sure the box is ok ;-)
21:03  * mnemoc wants one on those
21:03 < mnemoc> of*
21:03 < rxr> not this poor mans x86 BIOS toys ;-)
21:03 < rxr> POST ok - but heavy memory failurs *grin*
21:04 < rxr> mnemoc: the rs6k has a graphical OpenFirmware - showing icons for found cpu and ram and such - as well as playing a fanfare.wav or so when it is up ,-)
21:05 < mnemoc> does it support remote admin in case of failure?
21:05 < rxr> "only" via serial console - as most OpenFirmware implementations you can assing the primary console to a serial port ..
21:12 < rxr> does anyone here do real traffic shaping in linux?
21:24 < rxr> hm - so far those seem to suck:
21:24 < rxr> Stochastic Fairness Queueing
21:24 < rxr> Token Bucket Filter
21:35 -!- sparc-kly [~sparc-kly@65-23-199-247.prtc.net] has joined #t2
21:36 < rxr> linux24: boot/System.map_2.4.28-dist
21:36 < rxr> linux24: boot/initrd-2.4.28-dist.img
21:36 < rxr> linux24: boot/kconfig_2.4.28-dist
21:36 < rxr> linux24: boot/vmlinuz_2.4.28-dist
21:36 < rxr> linux24: lib/modules/2.4.28-dist
21:36 < rxr> linux26: boot/System.map_2.6.9-dist
21:36 < rxr> linux26: boot/initrd-2.6.9-dist.img
21:36 < rxr> linux26: boot/kconfig_2.6.9-dist
21:36 < rxr> linux26: boot/vmlinuz_2.6.9-dist
21:36 < rxr> linux26: lib/modules/2.6.9-dist
21:36 < rxr> nist, isn't it?
21:37 < rxr> far better than -rock ;-)
21:50 < rxr> ok - this gives at least better than defaults results:
21:50 < rxr> tc qdisc add dev ppp0 root tbf rate 120kbit latency 70ms burst 2500
21:58 < rxr> FreeBSD 5.3-STABLE (GENERIC) #0: Fri Nov  5 18:16:52 CET 2004
21:58 < rxr> To do a fast search for a file, try
21:58 < rxr> 	 locate filename
21:58 < rxr> locate uses a database that is updated every Saturday (assuming your computer
21:58 < rxr> is running FreeBSD at the time) to quickly find files based on name only.
21:58 < rxr> ;-)
22:06 < rxr> hey - cool - my old ROCK 1.7 based server has a higher thruput than the freebsd box:
22:06 < rxr> INFO: Testing <Germany - gsmp.tfh-berlin.de (HTTP)> ... ok 69860.000
22:06 < rxr> INFO: Testing <Germany - nexus.tfh-berlin.de (HTTP)> ... ok 57887.000
22:06 < rxr> connected on the same witch at the same uni ...
22:27 < rxr> the gsmp box:
22:27 < rxr>  22:56:13 up 417 days, 11:05,  1 user,  load average: 0.09, 0.07, 0.10
22:50 < rxr> hm - my ireland photo gallery is quite often accessed:
22:50 < rxr> 138 hits this month so far
23:07 < rxr> haha - 4 people got to http://www.exactcode.de by googling for "download suse 9.2 professional"
23:09 < valentin> ??
23:09 < rxr> yeah - quite cool, isn't it ;-)
23:09 < rxr> take a look at the stats for dl.exactcode - last line at the buttom I think
23:10 < rxr> ah - no - firt line in the top of the search keywords box :-)
23:11 < valentin> i cannot reproduce that with google
23:13 < rxr> from the stat page:
23:13 < rxr> download suse 9.2 professional
23:13 < rxr> 4
23:13 < rxr> 2.6 %
23:15 < rxr> hm - can't find us using the above neither ...
23:15 < valentin> strange
23:15 < rxr> mabye people clicked to page 56 in order to find a download location
23:15 < rxr> and there somewhere http://www.exactcode.de was due to suse linux and download beeing in the irc log ...
23:15 < rxr> who knows ...
23:16 < rxr> ok - let's take a look on my todo
23:16 < rxr> ah ja - bootdisk target diet issue ...
23:17 < rxr> valentin: my rs6k now runs 2.6.9 - and dump traffic shaping ;-)
23:18 < rxr> valentin: and have you seen the gsmp uptime? 417 days
23:20 < valentin> jep
23:20 < valentin> btw: lang == en
23:20 < valentin> :)
23:22 < rxr> where did I wrote lang != en ?
23:22 < rxr> the "ja" ?
23:23 < valentin> y
23:23 < valentin> just were afraid you mistook the channels
23:24 < rxr> nope
23:24 < rxr> damn - I not a bit motivated for the diet issue .. - but the sooner I track it the sooner I can do more fun things ..
23:26 < valentin> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=download+suse+9.2+professional+exactcode&btnG=Search
23:27 < rxr> yep ;-)
23:27 < rxr> maybe I should download Fedora Core 3 or so later on and give it a try
23:28 < valentin> thanks sparc-kly :)
23:28 < sparc-kly> ? im not 
23:28 < sparc-kly> lol
23:28 < rxr> and maybe we should download Yellowdog Linux and see if all the bugs of previous versions got fixed ;-)
23:28 < valentin> hehe
23:29 < rxr> and has anyone ever downloaded Mandrake Linux? ...
23:29 < rxr> I heared they are at Mandrake Linux 10.1 ;-)
23:30 < rxr> ok - enough - off to linuxrc ...
23:30 < sparc-kly> anyone run linux in NEC mobilepro 790 ? 
23:30 < rxr> nope - but on a Psion Revo ;-) with just 16MB of Ram and 37.xyz Mhz ;-)
23:34 < valentin> rxr: btw - my xorg is still running without a crash - thanks !
23:35 < rxr> cool
23:35 < rxr> http://www.rocklinux.net/lurker/message/20041128.200039.4dc49259.html
23:35 < rxr> ^- is this relevant for us?
23:35 < valentin> for the google log: in case of xorg freezing with ATI Radeon Mobility try Option      "DynamicClocks" "false"
23:36 < valentin> hm, do not thing we got that error ...
23:39 < rxr> nope - never saw this - maybe yet another funny regression rock folks hide in their make it overclicated code ...
23:40 < rxr> valentin: for the sake of google: If you have X.org 6.8.0 or 6.8.1 and your Radeon > 7500 freezes the machine randomly ...
23:40 < rxr> might be fixed in later versions of X.org - since it is already under investigation ...
23:41 < rxr> hm - should I simply make this change:
23:41 < rxr> http://www.rocklinux.net/lurker/message/20041126.161555.c881f3c2.html
23:41 < rxr> I think I already fixed -fPIC due to spart64 ...
23:41 < rxr> ah - wrong mail ID ...
23:42 < rxr> I meant to import this code change:
23:42 < rxr> http://www.rocklinux.net/lurker/message/20041126.161003.be9b1380.html
23:43 < valentin> why not ?
23:46 < rxr> ok - the patch is 99% noise ...
23:46 < rxr> I'll not even consider taking any further look into it ...
23:49 -!- mnemoc_ [~amery@200.75.27.58] has joined #t2
23:50 < rxr> hi mnemoc_ 
23:52 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.27.36] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:52 -!- mnemoc_ is now known as mnemoc
23:56 -!- CIA-9 [~CIA@to.je.spocco.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
--- Log closed Mon Nov 29 00:00:48 2004