--- Log opened Thu Sep 23 00:00:33 2004
00:08 < rxr> brian adams making Apple macintosh advertisments while taking in a "crappy talkshow" just right now ...
00:08 < rxr> Q: what do you do to feel comfortable in hotel rooms?
00:10 < rxr> A: well I feel comforable when I have my Apple Macintosh with me, ...
00:10 < rxr> woah!
00:10 < rxr> now I know I can feel as comfortable as brian adams hacking here on my Apple Macintosh *lol*
00:12 < rxr> hm - but what was I doing right now until he interrupted my work - damn
00:12 < rxr> hm - ok - sparc still up ;-)
00:46 < rxr> ouhm - sparc dead
00:50 < rxr> so /me crawling into bed ... - cu
02:38 -!- valentin [~valentin@port-212-202-42-20.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:39 -!- valentin [~valentin@port-212-202-42-20.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #t2
04:53 -!- martin [~martin@brln-d9ba2778.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #t2
04:54 < martin> hello ;-)
05:48 -!- mnemoc_ [~amery@200.75.27.39] has joined #t2
06:06 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.27.59] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:07 < rxr> moin
09:07 < rxr> hi martin 
10:10 < martin> hi rxr
10:22 < martin> okay, I'll go to Daniela, to eat somethink.
10:25  * martin is away ...
10:29 < rxr> erhm? you go to other people to consume food? or to eat her?
10:29  * rxr puzzled
10:30 < martin> he he, my english ... go to other people to consume food ...
10:31  * martin is realay away ...
10:37 < rxr> it was not your english - I was just joking ... ,-)
10:48 -!- rxr_ [~rene@p213.54.249.110.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
10:48 -!- Topic for #t2: t2 - for everyone demanding an up-to-date and open system - pre-release until October the 1st
10:48 -!- Topic set by rxr [] [Tue Sep 21 02:06:47 2004]
10:48 [Users #t2]
10:48 [ jsaw_] [ martin] [ mnemoc_] [ rxr] [ rxr_] [ valentin] 
10:48 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 6 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal]
10:48 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug  8 21:15:33 2004
10:48 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 16 secs
10:51 -!- rxr [~rene@p213.54.248.16.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
10:51 -!- You're now known as rxr
10:58 < jsaw_> rxr: http://www.pf-lug.de/projekte/haya/efence.php
11:00 < rxr> yep - saw this - it looks so .zip / Windows fokused - this is why I decided to use the debian sources ...
11:01 < rxr> to be on the safe side ...
11:01 < rxr> hm
11:01 < rxr> anyone beside /me does build gnome-2.8 here?
13:19 < jsaw_> re
13:20 < martin> re
13:20 < jsaw_> rxr: is xorg and gnome-2.8 working?
13:21 < rxr> xorg works - gnome-2.8 also basically
13:22 < rxr> but some packages produce undefined symbol errors when linking with the bonobo orbit stuff ...
13:22 < rxr> this is why I asked if anyone uses it beside me - I tried to fix those and googled for it - but no success so far
13:22 < rxr> xorg is already in production use on all my boxes ... 
13:23 < rxr> (even on the sparc64 boxes)
13:23 < jsaw_> good. so I think it's time to start building... 
13:51 < rxr> t2 or rock?
14:38 < rxr> so now precompiled debian kernel running on the sparc64 - let's see if that freezes, too
14:56 < rxr> oh my god:
14:56 < rxr> [T] Zenity is a tool that allows you to display Gtk+ dialog boxes from the
14:56 < rxr> [T] command line and through shell scripts. It is similar to gdialog, but is
14:56 < rxr> [T] intended to be saner. It comes from the same family as dialog, Xdialog,
14:56 < rxr> [T] and cdialog, but it surpasses those projects by having a cooler name.
14:57 < jsaw_> t2 - I want xorg.
15:01 < rxr> so I better tripple check the xorg build - I once saw it failing in the first build with some fontconfig or so error and it just build in the second try ... (or was this on the mad U30 ...?) - anyway, it should build ... ,)
15:03 < jsaw_> btw xorg. Wouldn't it be saner to remove the xterm-ls.patch and instead create a /etc/skel/.Xdefaults file?
15:04 < rxr> well - yeah, do you do it?
15:04 < rxr> or maybe changing s.th. in our /etc/profile or so so it get's saner detected
15:04 < rxr> I really dislike that this must be set for each terminal emulator in use ... .-(
15:08 < rxr> hehe - viagra regex in my mailserver tuned again ...
15:09 < jsaw_> I'm just taking about the resource (*loginShell: ...). But the TERM variable is also a problem, I know. (one hint is the use of TERM=nxterm, nxterm does not exist on most other systems...)
15:10 < jsaw_> s/taking/talking/
15:11 < jsaw_> Okay, I'll check this and try to cook a solution.
15:12 < jsaw_> (which I anyway need as the irix box here does not like my TERM settings...)
15:12 < rxr> ;-)
15:15 < rxr> so - sparc64 box still up - and me off buying some food ... /me needs lunch
16:38 < mnemoc_> moin
16:44 < rxr> hi mnemoc_ 
16:45 < mnemoc_> hi rxr
17:25 -!- mnemoc_ is now known as mnemoc
17:25 < rxr> sparc still up ,-) let's see if the debian kernel davem said it works ok survives longer
17:29 < mnemoc> oh
17:29 < mnemoc> rxr: do a build on that sparc, if it survives your host is _perfect_ :p
17:31 < rxr> I do a build - and it does not survive it ... :-(
17:31 < rxr> but it also froze without T2 build - just typing on the console ...
17:35 < mnemoc> glibc?
17:35 < rxr> well no user space stuff should freeze the kernel / hardware
17:36 < rxr> and it even happens when just the old 32bit binaries are executed that worked 100% reliable on my old U5 ...
17:36 < rxr> even with the same kernel binary that was rock solid on my U5 ... :-(
17:37 < rxr> unfortunately the U5 and U30 are quite two different beasts of hardware
17:50 -!- martin [~martin@brln-d9ba2778.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
18:49 < mnemoc> OT: i have ${CC} -o frogger.h68 crt0.o ${LINKFLAGS} -Xlinker -oformat=srec crt1.o sbrk.o frogger.o proyecto1.o
18:49 < mnemoc>      39         cat crt0.gnu crt1.gnu sbrk.gnu frogger.gnu proyecto1.gnu> listing.gnu
18:49 < mnemoc> on a make file
18:49 < mnemoc> without the 39 :p
18:50 < mnemoc> what does -oformat=srec means?
18:50 < mnemoc> i get format=srec as the binary output :\
18:51 < rxr> hm - maybe some obsolete and removed option?
18:51 < rxr> maybe --oformat was intented ...
18:51 < rxr> does just removing help?
18:52 < mnemoc> --oformat did something :p
18:52 < mnemoc> $ file frogger.h68
18:52 < mnemoc> frogger.h68: Motorola S-Record; binary data in text format
18:52 < mnemoc> binary data in text format o_O
18:52 < rxr> what are you building there?
18:53 < mnemoc> i have to code atari's frogger with audio for monday :\
18:53 < mnemoc> they give the makefile and some crap but it is for gcc2.95 and i'm usung 3.3.3
18:57 < rxr> for the university?
18:57 < mnemoc> yep
18:58 < rxr> where does it need to run on?
18:58 < mnemoc> bsvc... a m68k emulator
18:58 < rxr> aha
18:58 < mnemoc> a crappy emulator btw
18:59 < rxr> hm - maybe just use the old compiler - do you have built the cross 3.3.3 yourself?
18:59 < mnemoc> yep
18:59 < mnemoc> binutils + gcc + newlib :p
19:00 < mnemoc> it's working :p
19:00 < mnemoc> i have drawn a nice blue screen on the emulator :p
19:03 < rxr> hm - then maybe just remove stuff that do not work and do not make a sense to you ...
19:03 < rxr> link it together using the vanilla tools wihtout magic flags you do not find docu for ...
19:04 < mnemoc> i guess the emulator needs it in that binary data in text format s.th
19:26 < rxr> hm - imlib2 compiles much faster than rpm :-(
19:26 < rxr> I think I should disable rpm in the desktop build ...
19:27 < mnemoc> yeah
19:29 < rxr> done
19:45 -!- madtux [~mike@ip201-133-122-200.ct.co.cr] has joined #t2
19:45 < madtux> yo.
19:45 < mnemoc> madtux!
19:45 < madtux> mny!
19:46 < mnemoc> what brings you here?
19:46 < madtux> curiosity
19:46 < madtux> :)
19:46 < madtux> and the eternal look for a _STABLE_ system
19:48 < mnemoc> =)
19:49 < madtux> yes i'm unvited.. should i leave?
19:49 < madtux> uninvited*
19:49 < mnemoc> no way
19:49 < madtux> i mean not to disturb
19:50 < mnemoc> rxr: you have a visitor
19:50 < mnemoc> disturb the silence?
19:50 < madtux> i dunno.
19:50 < madtux> :)
19:57 -!- martin___ [~martin@brln-d9ba25a7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #t2
20:13 < rxr> re
20:13 < rxr> hi madtux 
20:13 < madtux> hello rene
20:13  * rxr my dad was calling ... ;-)
20:14 < mnemoc> hehe
20:14 < madtux> so this is the fork chan?
20:14 < rxr> hi madtux - except some gnome-2.8 and gcc34 related build errors t2 is getting in shape ...
20:14 < rxr> I use it on all systems - even sparc64 nowadays - so if you want to join ... *g*
20:14 < mnemoc> rxr: RL-2.1 has gcc34 as default compiler from today
20:15 < rxr> aha - after I did all the major initial work ;-)
20:15 < rxr> t2 is gcc-3.4 only for weeks ;-)
20:15 < mnemoc> =)
20:15 < mnemoc> oh
20:16 < rxr> just some remaining "to be fixed noise" - nothing really vital package is effected ... so
20:16 < madtux> hehe
20:16 < madtux> rxr, yes i'd like to join
20:17  * mnemoc fears to maintainer his packages at RL-2.0, RL-2.0-mnemoc, RL-2.1 and t2
20:18 < madtux> mnemoc, you could simple move to t2..
20:18 < rxr> http://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/t2/
20:18 < madtux> rxr, :)
20:19 < madtux> checking
20:19 < rxr> I just switched it to world-readable ...
20:19 < madtux> excellente
20:20 < madtux> rxr, so u will continue to support sparc on t2?
20:20 < madtux> btw what does t2 stand for?
20:20 < mnemoc> try 2
20:20 < rxr> sure - I have a new U30 now - although currently I fight with freezing kernels ...
20:20 < rxr> or technology 2 ;-)
20:20 < mnemoc> =)
20:21 < mnemoc> "try again" :p
20:21 < rxr> but I'm still thinking about a more public relation ready name
20:21 < madtux> frock.
20:21  * madtux hides
20:22 < mnemoc> :p
20:22 < mnemoc> and a frog as logo? :p
20:22 < madtux> "Just frock it!"
20:24 < rxr> in parallel to the old scripts/ a C++ based build system is beeing prepared in source/ that does cross-build everything, as user with on-the-fly dependency resolution ....
20:24 < rxr> and a new config system (that is at least 20 times faster)
20:25 < rxr> the planed 2.1 release will feature the good old build scripts - to have a new stable platform and then we build the new stuff up - keeping both build styles in place for the sake of stability
20:26 < rxr> and yes T2 will be cross architecture (powerpc and sparc currently more used then x86) as well as cross platform (macosx will support will be supported in the way of fink)
20:27 < madtux> :)
20:27 < madtux> rxr, is linux 2.6 default now?
20:27 < rxr> and we already have more people with write access than rock ...
20:27 < rxr> ouhm - this should be removed anyway
20:28 < rxr> we only have one linux-header package - which is 2.6.8.1 - so it is only a matter of which kernel your boot loader uses
20:28 < rxr> my plan it to just remove this default kernel crap, needed for nothing ...
20:28 < madtux> indeed
20:28 < madtux> how about devfs?
20:28 < madtux> is it still needed to build?
20:28 < rxr> devfs is there - as well as udev ....
20:28 < rxr> nope
20:29 < rxr> neither is rock (after I fixed this in rock half a year ago)
20:29 < madtux> i can build t2 as it is with a "standard" system?
20:29 < madtux> oh i never realized of that part
20:29 < madtux> :)
20:30 < mnemoc> madtux: long time has passes since devfs was needed to build rock too
20:30 < mnemoc> passed
20:30 < madtux> :)
20:30 < rxr> mnemoc: yep - said this in the 20:29 post ;-)
20:31 < mnemoc> =)
20:31 < madtux> mnemoc, u are getting old.
20:31 < mnemoc> :\
20:31 < madtux> jk :)
20:31 < madtux> rxr, mm.. how "big" is this trunk?!
20:32 < rxr> as "big" as rock ...
20:32 < mnemoc> rxr: can i 'share' downloads with rock2.0?
20:32 < rxr> some crap got removed ....
20:32 < rxr> nope - but with rock-2.1 ...
20:32 < madtux> okis
20:32 < mnemoc> # du -sh t2
20:32 < mnemoc> 110M    t2
20:32 < madtux> rxr, is there a mailing list?
20:33 < madtux> what the procedure for patches/
20:33 < rxr> nope - not yet
20:33 < madtux> is there a website?
20:33 < rxr> yes - but not public ;-)
20:33 < madtux> all dev coodination takes place here?
20:33 < rxr> I need a name first - before I can buy the domain ...
20:33 < madtux> i understand
20:33 < madtux> Amazona :)
20:33 < rxr> yep - up to know T2 is worked on by people around me - so communication "just works"
20:34 < rxr> but as soon as we have a name we will have a web-site ...
20:34 < rxr> and as soon as I reviewed security problems of list-managers I set it up ...
20:34 < madtux> mean while.. what about patches?
20:35 < rxr> just sent it to one with access rights ;-) /me, valentin, lars, mnemoc jsaw ;-)
20:35 < rxr> I happily accept good old patches
20:35 < madtux> promisse?
20:36 < madtux> :)
20:36 < rxr> active contributors get write access - as with any other open source project ....
20:36 < rxr> yep - I never stopped so for rock - clifford went this submaster only way - I always argued against that beast - even patches in mails are more efficient thatn submaster - at least for me
20:36 < madtux> well lets talk about the first thing..
20:37 < madtux> Documentation/i18n/ is not updated and seriously it will be hard to keep track of that.. its easier to work on a handbook with translations.. i suggest u to remove it
20:37 < madtux> yes i don't like submaster
20:37 < rxr> ak - in-tree Documentation/ will go away ...
20:38 < rxr> done
20:38 < madtux> plus it reduces the size of the tree :)
20:39 < rxr> I guess you want commit mails? then just pass a mail address to me
20:39 < mnemoc> rxr: what about each-file-copywrite?
20:39 < mnemoc> right too
20:39 < madtux> rxr, i do not have u email add..
20:40 < rxr> mnemoc: what?
20:40 < mnemoc> what do you think about removing the fat copyright note on every single file?
20:40 < rxr> madtux: /query ... ;-) but all my addresses still work rene@rocklinux.org rene@rocklinux-consultign.de or rene.rebe@gmx.net
20:40 < madtux> mnemoc, no matter how much u hate it even in the GPL v2 it is stated that is much more "safe"to do it
20:40 < madtux> okis
20:41 < mnemoc> it can be a oneliner :)
20:41 < rxr> mnemoc: yep - I prefer to have it in every file - and I already sed'ed the copyright - removing it would make the rock folks even more upset ...
20:41 < mnemoc> hehe
20:42 < madtux> there is a lot of ëstetic" clean up to do
20:55 < rxr> madtux: I hope you like the new "by functionalit / kind of category" sorting of packages ... ;-)
20:55 < rxr> (which is not yet fully finished ...)
20:55 < madtux> :)
20:55 < madtux> i have not yet seem much
20:55 < madtux> but working on it
20:59 < mnemoc> rxr: does t2 handle non-distributable packages?
21:05 < rxr> nope - but I'm happy to do the few tweaks to do so ...
21:05 < rxr> I do not like the "not yet used" NODIST hack in the D tag in rock
21:05 < rxr> in fact I removed this in T2 in my CVS code rework ...
21:05 < rxr> but I'm happy to add s.th. clean when needed
21:08 < mnemoc> rock-2.0-mnemoc has qmail, and if i don't want to maintain another branch....
21:11 < jsaw_> re
21:12 < jsaw_> mnemoc: srec is eg. used with motorola hc12 for transmission via serial cable (I guess it's from times when it was not 8bit save).
21:12 < mnemoc> oh
21:13 < jsaw_> on the other end sits a decoder, that feeds the memory and finally starts the program
21:13 < jsaw_> (afair ...)
21:14 < jsaw_> rxr: nodist is used (here :)
21:14 < rxr> here is where?
21:14 < rxr> when I forked t2 it was not in use AFAIR my grep run ...
21:14 < jsaw_> see jsaw/flexlm
21:15 < mnemoc> :D
21:17 < rxr> jsaw_: must have been added after the fork
21:18 < jsaw_> rxr: but when you are at it, find a sane way to support platform specific downloads... :)
21:18 < rxr> maybe just merging (the new) CD flag in rock with the NODIST flag into a DIST DISTRIBUTE tag ...
21:18 < jsaw_> I haven't had too much time recently, what's the CD tag?
21:19 < rxr> I just noticed in your package ;-) I never saw it before (so must be quite new)
21:19 < rxr> seems to be for CD distribution:
21:19 < rxr> [CD] <COPY> true
21:19 < rxr> ... *grummel* about that hack ...
21:20 < rxr> 2.1 gets messier with every look I take ...
21:22 < mnemoc> rxr: NODIST for CD generation.... what for source mirrors? 
21:22 < mnemoc> rxr: when you say 2.1, are you talking about rock or t2?
21:22 < mnemoc> .oO( rock's trunk must had been named 3.x )o
21:23 < jsaw_> oh, it's CHECKDEPS
21:23 < jsaw_> This flag is used to tell Check-Deps-2 and copy-cache.sh how to handle split packages
21:24 < rxr> mnemoc: I just meant the mess in rock ...
21:24 < madtux> grep -r clifford *
21:24 < madtux> wuff..
21:24 < rxr> madtux: ?
21:24 < mnemoc> | wc -l
21:24 < rxr> mnemoc: in t2?
21:24 < mnemoc> yes
21:24 < madtux> rxr, so we are still supposed to keep rock stuff ?
21:25 < mnemoc> .oO( oh, i saw a 'we' :p )o
21:25 < rxr> I'm not going to remove all this - I do not want to this atonce ..
21:25 < madtux> as in is it going to keep same "maintainers and so
21:25 < rxr> when one modifies a file just replace the M line ...
21:25 < rxr> we have to keep the rock copyright so ...
21:26 < rxr> new files will get a new T2 one of course ...
21:26 < madtux> mnemoc, ok yeah i'm not part of the project yeah
21:26 < rxr> madtux: i think he just hoped you want to join ...
21:26 < jsaw_> You don't have to keep the copyright in the .desc files.
21:26 < mnemoc> madtux: you implicitly joined the project :p
21:27 < jsaw_> (well, you would have to if you would live in america...)
21:27 < rxr> jsaw_: I do not want to piss on someone ... - only new files get a T2 mark ...
21:27 < madtux> well if there is a place for newbies like me i'd be quite honored to help on whatever i can
21:27 < jsaw_> just talking about the .desc file.
21:27 < jsaw_> hmmm.
21:27 < jsaw_> madtux <-> newbie ???
21:28 < madtux> *g*
21:28 < madtux> hell jsaw_ btw :)
21:28 < mnemoc> =)
21:29 < jsaw_> hi madtux, hehe
21:29 < madtux> rxr, some patches shortly
21:30 < madtux> rxr, oh btw... to start bugging.. got t2-sparc64 iso? :)
21:30 < mnemoc> hehe
21:37 < rxr> hehe ;-) not yet
21:38 < madtux> sorry i had to ask
21:38 < rxr> soon - we now have two U30s now - valentin got one, too
21:38 < rxr> so sparc will get equally support as powerpc has ...
21:41 < madtux> good..
22:05 -!- madtux [~mike@ip201-133-122-200.ct.co.cr] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:24 < rxr> debian kernel running for 7:55 now ...
23:11 < rxr> hm - i'm rather wondering whether I hit a preprocessor bug ...
--- Log closed Fri Sep 24 00:00:17 2004