--- Log opened Tue Sep 29 00:00:43 2009
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09:39 < rxr> http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/49462/
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09:41 < mpp> moinsen
09:45 < rxr> moin moin mpp 
10:59 < CIA-41> rene * r34333 /trunk/package/xorg/xf86-video-intel/xf86-video-intel.desc: * updated xf86-video-intel (2.8.1 -> 2.9.0)
10:59 < CIA-41> rene * r34334 /trunk/package/emulators/wine/wine.desc: * updated wine (1.1.29 -> 1.1.30)
11:00 < CIA-41> rene * r34335 /trunk/package/x11/mesa/mesa.desc: * updated mesa (7.5 -> 7.6)
11:00 < CIA-41> rene * r34336 /trunk/package/develop/cln/cln.desc: * updated cln (1.2.2 -> 1.3.1)
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16:05 < Baldzius> moin
16:05 < rxr> moin moin Baldzius, hi!
16:05 < Baldzius> hey rxr
16:06 < Baldzius> do you have any udev update locally?
16:06 < Baldzius> we need 146 ver. :/
16:06 < Baldzius> I can't add new package until then which  would fix one of gnome packages
16:07 < Baldzius> gnome-session if  I recall correctly
16:07 < rxr> well, newer udev versions are mangled more and more
16:07 < rxr> we might have to patch it and dietlibc for our size optimzed initrd ..
16:10 < rxr> what to we need the newer version for? to motivate me hacking thru all the details
16:12 < Baldzius> for devicekit-power
16:12 < rxr> urgs
16:12 < Baldzius> gnome-session fails without it
16:12 < rxr> oh my god
16:12 < rxr> more and more useles glue code all over the mostly GNOME world ?
16:12 < rxr> eventually nautilus will come with it's own OS kernel ?
16:13 < Baldzius> I can try to see if it's possible to disable it
16:13 < rxr> yeah - we can also work on getting udev updatede ...
16:14 < Baldzius> this devicekit-power might be used with more packages in the future
16:14 < Baldzius> I think fedora is going away from hal for devicekit*
16:14 < rxr> aha
16:14 < koan> indeed
16:14 < koan> fedora 11 was already a partial move from hal to devicekit
16:14  * rxr going away from this insane crap ... have to start my own micro kernel or use dragonfly bsd or haiku ...
16:15 < koan> :)
16:15 < Baldzius> so I've added devicekit yesterday and I can't add devicekit-power
16:15 < Baldzius> I now it requires udev 146
16:15 < Baldzius> as I have a dirty update here which partialy fails
16:15 < rxr> I'll keep looking at the new udev versions
16:15 < Baldzius> but that's enough for devicekit-power
16:15 < rxr> I looked at two earlier versions
16:16 < rxr> but their use of very latest glibc features made me always revert it ...
16:16 < Baldzius> to compile
16:16 < rxr> dietlibc just did not hat those very latest-gen (GNU only) features
16:16 < Baldzius> btw I have one big nasty thing 
16:16 < rxr> you could do a build with udev not linking against dietlibc, that would certainly just work
16:16 < Baldzius> kdelibs freezes on compile
16:16 < rxr> oh
16:17 < rxr> on your box or my VM ?
16:17 < Baldzius> at about 76% 
16:17 < Baldzius> with NOPARALLEL at 98%
16:17 < Baldzius> VM
16:17 < Baldzius> ref build
16:17 < rxr> hm
16:17 < rxr> btw. sorry that the VM was in flux recently
16:17 < Baldzius> that's ok, enough for me
16:18 < rxr> planed power outage and then I messed up some virtual network ...
16:18 < rxr> anyway,
16:18 < rxr> strange thing with kde
16:18 < Baldzius> yeah
16:18 < rxr> how does it freeze? gcc compiler bug ?
16:18 < rxr> 7GB not eough MEM ?
16:18 < Baldzius> not sure if it's memory
16:18 < Baldzius> it just stops and there's nothing going on
16:19 < Baldzius> but doesn't crash
16:19 < rxr> maybe a script bug
16:19 < rxr> wanting to read from stdin or so ?
16:19 < Baldzius> same is for 4.3.0
16:19 < rxr> like qt license "ok" question in the past
16:20 < rxr> btw. all the latest linux developments (last 2y++) make me really desperately want to move somewhere else
16:20 < rxr> linux kernel and associated project development is just not sane anymore ...
16:20 < rxr> koan: what are your ipressions? already on haiku ?
16:22 < koan> I have not tried Haiku yet, I don't know if I will, I'm not so into BeOS
16:22 < rxr> dragonfly bsd ?
16:22 < rxr> anything?
16:22 < Baldzius> rxr: also kdelibs builds on my machine fine
16:22 < Baldzius> both 4.3.0 and 4.3.1
16:22 < koan> I have tried DragonFly, that looks interesting, but I didn't stress-test it
16:22 < Baldzius> so not sure if there's something went it to trunk lately
16:22 < Baldzius> ot it's actually a VM fault
16:22 < rxr> strange
16:23 < koan> the HAMMER filesystem does look very interesting
16:23 < rxr> Baldzius: in my VM it apparently built, modulo shared files
16:23 < koan> and I like Nexenta because it gives access to ZFS and OpenSolaris zones while giving a Linux-like (in this case Ubuntu) userland
16:24 < rxr> (that might just occured due in-place re-build with old version around)
16:24 < rxr> koan: yeah
16:24 < rxr> Baldzius: so maybe openvz's fault
16:24 < rxr> instable code anyway
16:24 < rxr> maybe I should wipe the last, yours opevz instance and give you a KVM instance
16:24 < rxr> it's just that I can not share that much ram into that
16:25 < Baldzius> I don't think I need much
16:25 < rxr> unless I go buy some 8 or 16 gig of new
16:25 < Baldzius> just to get most of the packages to compile
16:25 < rxr> well, builds, GCC eat a lot, ... 2GB is minimum today, no ?
16:25 < Baldzius> dunno
16:26 < rxr> ok - with swap 1gig may be enough
16:26 < rxr> unless some huge C++ project throws some monster files on gccc v4 ...
16:26 < koan> rxr: and I was impressed by the simple cross-building process of NetBSD, I compiled NetBSD/x86 without any problems on Linux/ppc64 and OpenSolaris/x86_64
16:26 < rxr> koan: sounds good
16:27 < koan> so if you're planning a new kernel port of T2, maybe NetBSD is an interesting start, also for embedded targets :-)
16:27 < rxr> yeah - thing is when I throw some major part of my time on it I want something modern, microkernish
16:28 < rxr> best with multi user-space servers
16:28 < koan> hm did you take a look at L4?
16:28 < koan> they have also Linux running on top of L4
16:31 < koan> the problem with all those microkernels (even Minix) is of course the limited set of device drivers, Linux has a huge advantage with this
16:31 < rxr> sorry phone
16:39 < rxr> yeah, indeed
16:39 < rxr> but it gains me nothing when every new kernel has more regressions than they fixed
16:39 < rxr> and gets slower and huger
16:39 < rxr> intel published recently that every new linux kernel gets some percentage slower ...
16:39 < rxr> depspite I would normally not want to reboot my whole machine just to fix a security hole
16:42 < rxr> btw. with all this user-space "junk" the whole linux setup becomes multi server'ish anyway
16:42 < rxr> just with all cons of a monolith, and low quality user-space hacking
16:42 < koan> wasn't minix on the T2 agenda? (at least on the website if I remember correctly)
16:43 < rxr> yeah - but minix is too protypish ...
16:44 < koan> protypish?
16:46 < rxr> classroom-like
16:48 < koan> well, I don't know of many microkernels that have escaped academia, maybe L4 comes the closest
16:49 < rxr> well - hybrid like dragonfly of haiku ar haiku are already a progress ...
16:49 < rxr> and less random and breaking changes another
17:08 < rxr> Baldzius: there is also a possible binutils update if you want to test it with some bigger builds         * updated binutils (2.19.51.0.1 -> 2.19.51.0.10)
17:10 < Baldzius> I'll try to remember if I will start new ref build
17:10 < Baldzius> need to fix some packages first
17:17 < rxr> ok - no problem
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20:48 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-09-29/sony-vaio-vgn-p-nearing-refresh-or-end-of-life/
22:49 < CIA-38> aldas * r34337 /trunk/package/gnome2/rhythmbox/libmtp.patch: * removed obsolete rhythmbox/libmtp.patch
22:50 < CIA-38> aldas * r34338 /trunk/package/base/libx86/lheader.patch: * fixed libx86 to compile with new linux headers
23:02 < CIA-38> aldas * r34339 /trunk/package/network/aria2/ (. aria2.cache aria2.desc): 
23:02 < CIA-38> Martin Papadopoulos <mpp@0x3381e.de>:
23:02 < CIA-38> * added aria2 (1.5.2) - aria2 - The ultra fast download utility
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 30 00:00:43 2009