T2 IRC Log: 2009-02-01
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Sun Feb 01 00:00:50 2009
01:31 -!- tri [n=tri@p4FCF3BD7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:06 -!- digitaloktay [n=debian@dslb-088-064-162-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #t2
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12:00 [Users #t2]
12:00 [@ChanServ] [ koan] [ RayMan72] [ Stealth ] [ {Brad} ]
12:00 [ CIA-23 ] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ synchris] [ |beowulf|]
12:00 [ dsoul ] [ mtr ] [ Skapare ] [ TobiX ]
12:00 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
12:10 < rxr> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/31/1859200
12:10 < rxr> The "Bloody Mess" That Is Intel's Poulsbo Driver
12:16 < rxr> http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/01/30/intel-gma-500-poulsbo-graphics-on-linux-a-precise-and-comprehensive-summary-as-to-why-youre-screwed/
12:26 -!- mpp [n=mpp@i53875415.versanet.de] has joined #t2
12:27 [Users #t2]
12:27 [@ChanServ] [ koan] [ mtr ] [ Skapare ] [ TobiX ]
12:27 [ CIA-23 ] [ LMJ ] [ RayMan72] [ Stealth ] [ {Brad} ]
12:27 [ dsoul ] [ mpp ] [ rxr ] [ synchris] [ |beowulf|]
12:27 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
12:27 < rxr> moin mpp
12:27 < mpp> moinsen :-)
12:34 < CIA-23> rene * r32011 /trunk/package/base/atop/ (atop.desc linux-2.6.23.diff.disabled pkg_linux_pre.conf): * updated atop/atoppatch-kernel (2.6.27 -> 2.6.28)
12:43 < rxr> http://code.google.com/p/asmjit/
12:44 < rxr> https://gna.org/projects/softwire
12:46 < mpp> iproute2 builds outside top-level dir
12:46 < rxr> yes, noticed that, too
12:47 < mpp> what's the cause ?
12:47 < rxr> r31988 | aldas | 2009-01-30 20:15:27 +0100 (Fri, 30 Jan 2009) | 2 lines
12:47 < rxr> * updated iproute2 (2.6.19-061214 -> 2.6.28)
12:47 < mpp> yes i know
12:47 < mpp> can we fix it ?
12:47 < rxr> everything is possible
12:47 < mpp> it's kinda basic package
12:47 < rxr> (yes we can!)
12:48 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-01-23/following-barack-obama-inaugural-speech-in-berlin/
12:48 < rxr> mpp: I'll take a look at that problem, now
12:49 < mpp> k
12:49 < mpp> appreciated
12:50 < rxr> it's troublesome how the big "pseudo open" project constantly screw up their sources
12:50 < rxr> the openoffice-org 3.0.1 (minor) update also does build neither
12:51 < rxr> fails quickly on some mkdir of the cppunit sub-dir
12:51 * rxr headshake
12:51 < rxr> mkdir ./unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/cppunit-1.8.0/
12:51 < rxr> mkdir: cannot create directory `./unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/cppunit-1.8.0/': File exists
12:51 < rxr> cd ./unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/cppunit-1.8.0/ && dmake product="full" && touch /TOOLCHAIN/src.openoffice-org.reference.20090201.120909.2148.8way/OOO
12:51 < rxr> 300_m15/cppunit/./unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/so_built_so_cppunit
12:51 < rxr> cd src/win32 && make product="full"
12:51 < rxr> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.
12:51 < rxr> dmake: Error code 2, while making 'target'
12:51 < rxr> dmake: Error code 255, while making './unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/so_built_so_cppunit'
12:51 < rxr> ERROR: Error 65280 occurred while making /TOOLCHAIN/src.openoffice-org.reference.20090201.120909.2148.8way/OOO300_m15/cppunit
12:59 < rxr> mpp: iproute2 breakage looks like defect upstream Makefile
13:00 < rxr> mpp: strange defaults they use ..
13:01 -!- digitaloktay [n=debian@dslb-088-064-162-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #t2
13:02 -!- Baldzius [n=aldas@89.127.179.94] has joined #t2
13:02 < Baldzius> moin
13:02 < rxr> hey Baldzius
13:02 < Baldzius> moin rxr
13:06 < CIA-23> aldas * r32012 /trunk/package/network/iproute2/iproute2.conf: * guided iproute2 to install documentation and manuals into proper location
13:07 < rxr> Baldzius: was just about to commit the same
13:07 < Baldzius> heh :)
13:07 < rxr> do you use scripts/Commit ? it should have marked your first sbin line with a trailing red box as it has a new extra space, now?
13:09 < Baldzius> yeah, missed that
13:09 < rxr> the red idicators are a "just new feature" just soem month old
13:10 < CIA-23> rene * r32013 /trunk/package/network/iproute2/iproute2.conf: * improved r32012: instead of new extra trailing whitespace set the directories in one line of code
13:10 < Baldzius> i was fixing it late night yesterday so i might pressed space accidentaly
13:10 < rxr> no problem
13:10 < rxr> I only noticed it as I had the same changes in the file already :-)
13:11 < Baldzius> alright
13:15 < digitaloktay> hi leute
13:15 < rxr> hi digitaloktay
13:16 < CIA-23> aldas * r32014 /trunk/target/share/install/init: * allow instalation to mount from ext4 bootable media
13:16 < Baldzius> moin digitaloktay
13:16 < digitaloktay> hi rxr Baldzius
13:17 < Baldzius> rxr: i was playing with usb stick couple of days and the node for it is created after init has been already started
13:17 < Baldzius> so you have manually to point to it
13:17 < Baldzius> i guess my laptop is very fast
13:17 < rxr> Baldzius: the early user-space intentionally had no huge copyright header to save some bytes
13:18 < rxr> Baldzius: but I guess with current storage sizes we just ignore that point ...
13:18 < Baldzius> heh, sorry :)
13:18 < Baldzius> i can remove, np
13:18 < rxr> Baldzius: you mean live booting from USB stick?
13:18 < Baldzius> yes
13:18 < rxr> that the device is created later is ok
13:18 < rxr> the early init has a loop and is suppost to wait some 15 seconds or so until it appears
13:18 < Baldzius> but it doesn't want to come up in the menu
13:18 < rxr> I just booted T2 from USB stick yesterday on a Sony VGN-P in a store
13:19 < Baldzius> hm
13:19 < Baldzius> somehow it doesn't work
13:19 < Baldzius> it picks up only cdrom
13:19 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/hardware/portable/Sony/VGN-P/
13:19 < rxr> ah - you mean the installer?
13:19 < rxr> install from USB stick ?
13:19 < rxr> that might be true
13:19 < rxr> the init of the installer flavour of T2 might only lists cdroms
13:19 < rxr> historically, as one usually installs form cdrom
13:19 < rxr> installed from cdrom ...
13:20 < Baldzius> that sony is just recently released?
13:20 < rxr> yes, new device from CES
13:20 < rxr> I have not yet brought it only checked it out in the store last ngiht
13:20 < rxr> it was a pre-production sample anyway
13:20 < Baldzius> how it feels?
13:20 < rxr> they take pre-orders for shipment mid Februrary
13:20 < Baldzius> nice laptop 13:20 < Baldzius> ?
13:20 < rxr> yeah - quite nice
13:21 < rxr> but I'm a perfectionist, I always find something not so nice
13:21 < Baldzius> for example?
13:21 < rxr> e.g. in the German version the right shift key is extremely stupidly placed ...
13:21 < Baldzius> don't use right shift at all
13:21 < rxr> some English verisons suffer from the same shift placement, the Japan version has a saner right shift layout ...
13:21 < rxr> and the mouse buttons get easily pressed when you want tp press space
13:22 < rxr> aside from that the keyboard is suprisingly well for such a super tiny device
13:22 < Baldzius> oh yeah, i can see in the picture
13:22 < rxr> another stupid thing is that the display is so tiny and high-res
13:22 < rxr> given the side brezle / border they could have at least made the display a little bigger
13:22 < rxr> the biggest showstopper for using linux on it is the Intel GMA 500 chipset - Puslbo
13:23 < rxr> it's PowerVR based 3D and there is only a very crappy binary only mess that barely works for Linux at the moment
13:23 < rxr> --
13:23 < rxr> another super strange thing is that the Splashtop based X-Bar instand on navigation is done extremely poorly
13:23 < rxr> the graphic does not look like the PS3 or PSP
13:24 < rxr> it is super cheap, like 20y old DOS game
13:24 < rxr> with arrow key only navigation (no mouse in the X-Bar) and a super ugly font
13:24 < Baldzius> :)
13:24 < rxr> and when one selection the Internet icon I guess another Linux boots as it takes some seconds and flickers around ...
13:24 < Baldzius> what kernel version you've booted up?
13:24 < rxr> this pseudo X-Bar instant on Sony Linux is super strange and super ugly ...
13:25 < rxr> I bootet the latest Archivista build 2.6.26
13:25 < rxr> worked out of the box
13:25 < Baldzius> cool
13:25 < rxr> oh - and the nice thing has GPS and 3G
13:25 < rxr> but I have not tested if those could be made to work under Linux
13:26 < rxr> and a cool thing is that it has the higher end Atom CPU that at least has VT
13:26 < Baldzius> myself i still strugling to get my new laptop wot work with b43 OS driver
13:26 < Baldzius> with no success so far
13:26 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-01-15/intel-atom-no-64-bit-nor-vt/
13:26 < Baldzius> so habve to stick with proprietary
13:26 < rxr> every of this tiny PC laptops has major drawbacks
13:26 < Baldzius> but can't complain
13:27 < rxr> if I would have got some money I guess I should manufactor some perfect one ...
13:27 < rxr> too bad I have none to spare :-(
13:27 < Baldzius> :)
13:27 < rxr> btw. the Samsung NC20 with Via Nano got quite positive performance and battery life reviews
13:27 < rxr> too bad it looks plain ugly - the first reason for me not to get it ...
13:28 < rxr> ... and is 12" and thus too big for my "on the road work needs"
13:29 < rxr> PS: if soneone of Sony ever get to read this IRC log, feel free to contract me to get some more useful and pretty instant on Linux for your next device, thanks.
13:29 < Baldzius> lol
13:30 -!- digitaloktay [n=debian@dslb-088-064-162-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Verlassend"]
13:30 < rxr> Baldzius: the X-Bar thing on the Sony P is so ugly it's not funny anymore, and really does not suit this otherwise lovely designed piece of hardware at all ...
13:33 -!- digitaloktay [n=debian@dslb-088-064-162-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #t2
13:36 < Baldzius> yeah, this is really awkward
13:38 < CIA-23> rene * r32015 /trunk/target/share/install/init: * removed huge copyright note from early user-space init as introduced in r32014
13:38 < rxr> oh - and Sony also gets on my nerves by charging 33% more in Germany than compared to the US
13:42 < Baldzius> everything is cheapier in US i'd say
13:42 < Baldzius> myself i also buy computer stuff from UK as here in Ireland prices are higher
13:43 < rxr> yeah - ususally a little (also accounting that US prices are usually listed excluding tax, while in germany they are usually listed including tax)
13:43 < rxr> but Sony really is stressing it ...
13:43 < Baldzius> and choice is smaler
13:44 < rxr> yeah - maybe I should order the Sony VGN-P in Japan, also to get a sane right shift key placement ... !
13:52 < Baldzius> :)
14:01 < CIA-23> rene * r32016 /trunk/package/kde/twinkle/twinkle.desc: * updated twinkle (1.3.2 -> 1.4.1)
14:11 < CIA-23> rene * r32017 /trunk/misc/share/CVTranslations: * further improved CVTranslations to make old-style sourceforge URLs still work for update checks
14:31 -!- mpp [n=mpp@i53875415.versanet.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008121621]"]
14:53 < CIA-23> rene * r32018 /trunk/package/audio/hydrogen/gcc43.patch: * fixed hydrogen for gcc-4.3
15:05 < RayMan72> i was looking for gnat compiler..and ada GPS for T2..
15:06 < RayMan72> can someone help me out of this.
15:19 < rxr> though t2 includes a lot, there was not yet ADA support submitted
15:19 < rxr> if you want to use the gcc built-in feel free to submit a patch bootstrapping it among the other languges
15:19 * rxr off for dinner - cu
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19:38 * Skapare wonders what rxr eats for dinner
19:49 -!- mpp [n=mpp@i53877643.versanet.de] has joined #t2
19:51 < mpp> i got an error building rescue image on trunk - aufs spits a bunch of errors
19:51 < mpp> anyone else built the rescue target ?
19:52 < Skapare> not yet
19:57 < mpp> i'll give it a shot with aufs from 26-jan-2009
19:57 < mpp> see if the linux26 builds
20:13 -!- LMJ [n=serwou@laf31-4-82-236-42-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:13 < mpp> still broken ..
20:13 < Skapare> :-(
20:13 < mpp> no problem
20:14 < mpp> i've got my own repo - exlucding some trunk packages
20:14 < Skapare> I'm still learning about T2 and organizing things to try it out
20:14 < mpp> so ill stick with the previous kernel
20:14 < mpp> 2.6.27-10
20:14 < Skapare> is it the kernel that is not building?
20:14 < mpp> yes
20:14 < Skapare> for what target/arch ?
20:14 < mpp> the aufs patch is causing gcc error
20:14 < mpp> the rescue target
20:15 < mpp> thats the one i use the most
20:15 < Skapare> OK, I don't know aufs
20:15 < mpp> neither do i :-)
20:15 < mpp> but wth ...
20:15 < Skapare> a reason you need the aufs patch?
20:15 < mpp> the rescue target is based on it
20:15 < mpp> so no aufs no rescue target ...
20:15 < Skapare> what kind of rescue target is this?
20:15 < mpp> intitramfs
20:16 < mpp> the target is part of t2
20:16 < Skapare> I mean what kind of final target would need aufs?
20:16 < mpp> it's target/rescue
20:16 < mpp> in the svn tree
20:17 < Skapare> OK ... before coming to learn T2 I have made kernels with initramfs before, and seen nothing called aufs
20:17 < Skapare> what kind of target arch? a pc? x86? x86_64?
20:17 < mpp> you surely can handle things in other ways
20:17 < mpp> but the write overlay is nice
20:17 < mpp> x86 / x86_64
20:18 < Skapare> what is expected to happen if aufs is omitted?
20:18 < mpp> i have no idea
20:18 < mpp> rxr is the packet maintainer at t2
20:19 < Skapare> I'm still trying to get a grasp on what this aufs is and why it is needed ... initramfs per se does not need it
20:19 < mpp> its an overlay to rootfs
20:19 < Skapare> make your own custom target without aufs
20:19 < mpp> so you can emulate r/w on fs
20:19 < Skapare> so it's just an overlay filesystem?
20:19 < mpp> well a lot of scripts need write access during the rescue target bootup
20:20 * Skapare just writes on rootfs itself
20:20 < mpp> so one would need to rewrite the rescue target somewhat to make it work without overlayfs
20:20 < Skapare> I guess these are things I need to explore as I learn about T2
20:21 < mpp> honestly i have to pass on the aufs issue
20:21 < mpp> that's correct .
20:21 < mpp> anyways
20:21 < mpp> what are you using t2 for ?
20:21 < mpp> or intend to use it..
20:22 < Skapare> to avoid having to build up all the script infrastructure for myself ... intend to use it for various things including an embedded application builder kit
20:22 < mpp> ah k
20:22 < Skapare> don't know for sure if I will use it ... looking at both T2 and Gentoo (including embedded Gentoo)
20:22 < mpp> maybe rxr can drop a line on the aufs target/rescue issue
20:23 < Skapare> Gentoo looks to be too messy to make much changes to
20:23 < mpp> true
20:23 < mpp> therefore we have t2 :-)
20:24 < Skapare> the target users for what I'm planning to build will be people porting linux to all new platforms for the very first time
20:25 < Skapare> platform being a board with a custom configuration ... but based on a common architecture for which tool chain already exists and kernel port has been done
20:26 < Skapare> what I expect to do with T2 is get into building my own targets (after playing around learning it some first with existing targets)
20:27 < Skapare> and the end users shall be able to add their application code to the whole build process so the end result is 100% complete image
20:27 < mpp> that's a domain of t2 definetly
20:28 < Skapare> for example for a cable TV set top box, they would add their cable user graphical interface programs, and their tuner drivers
20:28 < mpp> but be aware it is a build kit and no distro per se
20:28 < Skapare> yeah, T2 looks like a really good fit for this
20:28 < Skapare> yeah, and what I would be building is also that ... not a distro per se
20:29 < Skapare> for all I know, maybe what I'll build can just be added to T2 itself ... I'm doing it all GPL
20:29 -!- Baldzius [n=aldas@89.127.179.94] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:30 < Skapare> well, I'm going to go find some lunch ... maybe rxr will be back from dinner to answer your issue soon
20:55 < mpp> it seems the rescue target does neither use unionfs nor aufs ...
20:55 < mpp> could be legacy stuff ...
20:55 < mpp> i'm rebuilding the rescue target asap
21:50 -!- mpp [n=mpp@i53877643.versanet.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008121621]"]
23:17 -!- RayMan72 [n=radjis@dhcp-077-250-081-057.chello.nl] has quit ["i've to Leave"]
--- Log closed Mon Feb 02 00:00:56 2009
01:31 -!- tri [n=tri@p4FCF3BD7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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04:15 -!- digitaloktay [n=debian@dslb-088-064-162-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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10:54 -!- CIA-23 [n=CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #t2
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12:00 [Users #t2]
12:00 [@ChanServ] [ koan] [ RayMan72] [ Stealth ] [ {Brad} ]
12:00 [ CIA-23 ] [ LMJ ] [ rxr ] [ synchris] [ |beowulf|]
12:00 [ dsoul ] [ mtr ] [ Skapare ] [ TobiX ]
12:00 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
12:10 < rxr> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/31/1859200
12:10 < rxr> The "Bloody Mess" That Is Intel's Poulsbo Driver
12:16 < rxr> http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/01/30/intel-gma-500-poulsbo-graphics-on-linux-a-precise-and-comprehensive-summary-as-to-why-youre-screwed/
12:26 -!- mpp [n=mpp@i53875415.versanet.de] has joined #t2
12:27 [Users #t2]
12:27 [@ChanServ] [ koan] [ mtr ] [ Skapare ] [ TobiX ]
12:27 [ CIA-23 ] [ LMJ ] [ RayMan72] [ Stealth ] [ {Brad} ]
12:27 [ dsoul ] [ mpp ] [ rxr ] [ synchris] [ |beowulf|]
12:27 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
12:27 < rxr> moin mpp
12:27 < mpp> moinsen :-)
12:34 < CIA-23> rene * r32011 /trunk/package/base/atop/ (atop.desc linux-2.6.23.diff.disabled pkg_linux_pre.conf): * updated atop/atoppatch-kernel (2.6.27 -> 2.6.28)
12:43 < rxr> http://code.google.com/p/asmjit/
12:44 < rxr> https://gna.org/projects/softwire
12:46 < mpp> iproute2 builds outside top-level dir
12:46 < rxr> yes, noticed that, too
12:47 < mpp> what's the cause ?
12:47 < rxr> r31988 | aldas | 2009-01-30 20:15:27 +0100 (Fri, 30 Jan 2009) | 2 lines
12:47 < rxr> * updated iproute2 (2.6.19-061214 -> 2.6.28)
12:47 < mpp> yes i know
12:47 < mpp> can we fix it ?
12:47 < rxr> everything is possible
12:47 < mpp> it's kinda basic package
12:47 < rxr> (yes we can!)
12:48 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-01-23/following-barack-obama-inaugural-speech-in-berlin/
12:48 < rxr> mpp: I'll take a look at that problem, now
12:49 < mpp> k
12:49 < mpp> appreciated
12:50 < rxr> it's troublesome how the big "pseudo open" project constantly screw up their sources
12:50 < rxr> the openoffice-org 3.0.1 (minor) update also does build neither
12:51 < rxr> fails quickly on some mkdir of the cppunit sub-dir
12:51 * rxr headshake
12:51 < rxr> mkdir ./unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/cppunit-1.8.0/
12:51 < rxr> mkdir: cannot create directory `./unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/cppunit-1.8.0/': File exists
12:51 < rxr> cd ./unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/cppunit-1.8.0/ && dmake product="full" && touch /TOOLCHAIN/src.openoffice-org.reference.20090201.120909.2148.8way/OOO
12:51 < rxr> 300_m15/cppunit/./unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/so_built_so_cppunit
12:51 < rxr> cd src/win32 && make product="full"
12:51 < rxr> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.
12:51 < rxr> dmake: Error code 2, while making 'target'
12:51 < rxr> dmake: Error code 255, while making './unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/so_built_so_cppunit'
12:51 < rxr> ERROR: Error 65280 occurred while making /TOOLCHAIN/src.openoffice-org.reference.20090201.120909.2148.8way/OOO300_m15/cppunit
12:59 < rxr> mpp: iproute2 breakage looks like defect upstream Makefile
13:00 < rxr> mpp: strange defaults they use ..
13:01 -!- digitaloktay [n=debian@dslb-088-064-162-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #t2
13:02 -!- Baldzius [n=aldas@89.127.179.94] has joined #t2
13:02 < Baldzius> moin
13:02 < rxr> hey Baldzius
13:02 < Baldzius> moin rxr
13:06 < CIA-23> aldas * r32012 /trunk/package/network/iproute2/iproute2.conf: * guided iproute2 to install documentation and manuals into proper location
13:07 < rxr> Baldzius: was just about to commit the same
13:07 < Baldzius> heh :)
13:07 < rxr> do you use scripts/Commit ? it should have marked your first sbin line with a trailing red box as it has a new extra space, now?
13:09 < Baldzius> yeah, missed that
13:09 < rxr> the red idicators are a "just new feature" just soem month old
13:10 < CIA-23> rene * r32013 /trunk/package/network/iproute2/iproute2.conf: * improved r32012: instead of new extra trailing whitespace set the directories in one line of code
13:10 < Baldzius> i was fixing it late night yesterday so i might pressed space accidentaly
13:10 < rxr> no problem
13:10 < rxr> I only noticed it as I had the same changes in the file already :-)
13:11 < Baldzius> alright
13:15 < digitaloktay> hi leute
13:15 < rxr> hi digitaloktay
13:16 < CIA-23> aldas * r32014 /trunk/target/share/install/init: * allow instalation to mount from ext4 bootable media
13:16 < Baldzius> moin digitaloktay
13:16 < digitaloktay> hi rxr Baldzius
13:17 < Baldzius> rxr: i was playing with usb stick couple of days and the node for it is created after init has been already started
13:17 < Baldzius> so you have manually to point to it
13:17 < Baldzius> i guess my laptop is very fast
13:17 < rxr> Baldzius: the early user-space intentionally had no huge copyright header to save some bytes
13:18 < rxr> Baldzius: but I guess with current storage sizes we just ignore that point ...
13:18 < Baldzius> heh, sorry :)
13:18 < Baldzius> i can remove, np
13:18 < rxr> Baldzius: you mean live booting from USB stick?
13:18 < Baldzius> yes
13:18 < rxr> that the device is created later is ok
13:18 < rxr> the early init has a loop and is suppost to wait some 15 seconds or so until it appears
13:18 < Baldzius> but it doesn't want to come up in the menu
13:18 < rxr> I just booted T2 from USB stick yesterday on a Sony VGN-P in a store
13:19 < Baldzius> hm
13:19 < Baldzius> somehow it doesn't work
13:19 < Baldzius> it picks up only cdrom
13:19 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/hardware/portable/Sony/VGN-P/
13:19 < rxr> ah - you mean the installer?
13:19 < rxr> install from USB stick ?
13:19 < rxr> that might be true
13:19 < rxr> the init of the installer flavour of T2 might only lists cdroms
13:19 < rxr> historically, as one usually installs form cdrom
13:19 < rxr> installed from cdrom ...
13:20 < Baldzius> that sony is just recently released?
13:20 < rxr> yes, new device from CES
13:20 < rxr> I have not yet brought it only checked it out in the store last ngiht
13:20 < rxr> it was a pre-production sample anyway
13:20 < Baldzius> how it feels?
13:20 < rxr> they take pre-orders for shipment mid Februrary
13:20 < Baldzius> nice laptop 13:20 < Baldzius> ?
13:20 < rxr> yeah - quite nice
13:21 < rxr> but I'm a perfectionist, I always find something not so nice
13:21 < Baldzius> for example?
13:21 < rxr> e.g. in the German version the right shift key is extremely stupidly placed ...
13:21 < Baldzius> don't use right shift at all
13:21 < rxr> some English verisons suffer from the same shift placement, the Japan version has a saner right shift layout ...
13:21 < rxr> and the mouse buttons get easily pressed when you want tp press space
13:22 < rxr> aside from that the keyboard is suprisingly well for such a super tiny device
13:22 < Baldzius> oh yeah, i can see in the picture
13:22 < rxr> another stupid thing is that the display is so tiny and high-res
13:22 < rxr> given the side brezle / border they could have at least made the display a little bigger
13:22 < rxr> the biggest showstopper for using linux on it is the Intel GMA 500 chipset - Puslbo
13:23 < rxr> it's PowerVR based 3D and there is only a very crappy binary only mess that barely works for Linux at the moment
13:23 < rxr> --
13:23 < rxr> another super strange thing is that the Splashtop based X-Bar instand on navigation is done extremely poorly
13:23 < rxr> the graphic does not look like the PS3 or PSP
13:24 < rxr> it is super cheap, like 20y old DOS game
13:24 < rxr> with arrow key only navigation (no mouse in the X-Bar) and a super ugly font
13:24 < Baldzius> :)
13:24 < rxr> and when one selection the Internet icon I guess another Linux boots as it takes some seconds and flickers around ...
13:24 < Baldzius> what kernel version you've booted up?
13:24 < rxr> this pseudo X-Bar instant on Sony Linux is super strange and super ugly ...
13:25 < rxr> I bootet the latest Archivista build 2.6.26
13:25 < rxr> worked out of the box
13:25 < Baldzius> cool
13:25 < rxr> oh - and the nice thing has GPS and 3G
13:25 < rxr> but I have not tested if those could be made to work under Linux
13:26 < rxr> and a cool thing is that it has the higher end Atom CPU that at least has VT
13:26 < Baldzius> myself i still strugling to get my new laptop wot work with b43 OS driver
13:26 < Baldzius> with no success so far
13:26 < rxr> http://rene.rebe.name/2009-01-15/intel-atom-no-64-bit-nor-vt/
13:26 < Baldzius> so habve to stick with proprietary
13:26 < rxr> every of this tiny PC laptops has major drawbacks
13:26 < Baldzius> but can't complain
13:27 < rxr> if I would have got some money I guess I should manufactor some perfect one ...
13:27 < rxr> too bad I have none to spare :-(
13:27 < Baldzius> :)
13:27 < rxr> btw. the Samsung NC20 with Via Nano got quite positive performance and battery life reviews
13:27 < rxr> too bad it looks plain ugly - the first reason for me not to get it ...
13:28 < rxr> ... and is 12" and thus too big for my "on the road work needs"
13:29 < rxr> PS: if soneone of Sony ever get to read this IRC log, feel free to contract me to get some more useful and pretty instant on Linux for your next device, thanks.
13:29 < Baldzius> lol
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13:30 < rxr> Baldzius: the X-Bar thing on the Sony P is so ugly it's not funny anymore, and really does not suit this otherwise lovely designed piece of hardware at all ...
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13:36 < Baldzius> yeah, this is really awkward
13:38 < CIA-23> rene * r32015 /trunk/target/share/install/init: * removed huge copyright note from early user-space init as introduced in r32014
13:38 < rxr> oh - and Sony also gets on my nerves by charging 33% more in Germany than compared to the US
13:42 < Baldzius> everything is cheapier in US i'd say
13:42 < Baldzius> myself i also buy computer stuff from UK as here in Ireland prices are higher
13:43 < rxr> yeah - ususally a little (also accounting that US prices are usually listed excluding tax, while in germany they are usually listed including tax)
13:43 < rxr> but Sony really is stressing it ...
13:43 < Baldzius> and choice is smaler
13:44 < rxr> yeah - maybe I should order the Sony VGN-P in Japan, also to get a sane right shift key placement ... !
13:52 < Baldzius> :)
14:01 < CIA-23> rene * r32016 /trunk/package/kde/twinkle/twinkle.desc: * updated twinkle (1.3.2 -> 1.4.1)
14:11 < CIA-23> rene * r32017 /trunk/misc/share/CVTranslations: * further improved CVTranslations to make old-style sourceforge URLs still work for update checks
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14:53 < CIA-23> rene * r32018 /trunk/package/audio/hydrogen/gcc43.patch: * fixed hydrogen for gcc-4.3
15:05 < RayMan72> i was looking for gnat compiler..and ada GPS for T2..
15:06 < RayMan72> can someone help me out of this.
15:19 < rxr> though t2 includes a lot, there was not yet ADA support submitted
15:19 < rxr> if you want to use the gcc built-in feel free to submit a patch bootstrapping it among the other languges
15:19 * rxr off for dinner - cu
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19:38 * Skapare wonders what rxr eats for dinner
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19:51 < mpp> i got an error building rescue image on trunk - aufs spits a bunch of errors
19:51 < mpp> anyone else built the rescue target ?
19:52 < Skapare> not yet
19:57 < mpp> i'll give it a shot with aufs from 26-jan-2009
19:57 < mpp> see if the linux26 builds
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20:13 < mpp> still broken ..
20:13 < Skapare> :-(
20:13 < mpp> no problem
20:14 < mpp> i've got my own repo - exlucding some trunk packages
20:14 < Skapare> I'm still learning about T2 and organizing things to try it out
20:14 < mpp> so ill stick with the previous kernel
20:14 < mpp> 2.6.27-10
20:14 < Skapare> is it the kernel that is not building?
20:14 < mpp> yes
20:14 < Skapare> for what target/arch ?
20:14 < mpp> the aufs patch is causing gcc error
20:14 < mpp> the rescue target
20:15 < mpp> thats the one i use the most
20:15 < Skapare> OK, I don't know aufs
20:15 < mpp> neither do i :-)
20:15 < mpp> but wth ...
20:15 < Skapare> a reason you need the aufs patch?
20:15 < mpp> the rescue target is based on it
20:15 < mpp> so no aufs no rescue target ...
20:15 < Skapare> what kind of rescue target is this?
20:15 < mpp> intitramfs
20:16 < mpp> the target is part of t2
20:16 < Skapare> I mean what kind of final target would need aufs?
20:16 < mpp> it's target/rescue
20:16 < mpp> in the svn tree
20:17 < Skapare> OK ... before coming to learn T2 I have made kernels with initramfs before, and seen nothing called aufs
20:17 < Skapare> what kind of target arch? a pc? x86? x86_64?
20:17 < mpp> you surely can handle things in other ways
20:17 < mpp> but the write overlay is nice
20:17 < mpp> x86 / x86_64
20:18 < Skapare> what is expected to happen if aufs is omitted?
20:18 < mpp> i have no idea
20:18 < mpp> rxr is the packet maintainer at t2
20:19 < Skapare> I'm still trying to get a grasp on what this aufs is and why it is needed ... initramfs per se does not need it
20:19 < mpp> its an overlay to rootfs
20:19 < Skapare> make your own custom target without aufs
20:19 < mpp> so you can emulate r/w on fs
20:19 < Skapare> so it's just an overlay filesystem?
20:19 < mpp> well a lot of scripts need write access during the rescue target bootup
20:20 * Skapare just writes on rootfs itself
20:20 < mpp> so one would need to rewrite the rescue target somewhat to make it work without overlayfs
20:20 < Skapare> I guess these are things I need to explore as I learn about T2
20:21 < mpp> honestly i have to pass on the aufs issue
20:21 < mpp> that's correct .
20:21 < mpp> anyways
20:21 < mpp> what are you using t2 for ?
20:21 < mpp> or intend to use it..
20:22 < Skapare> to avoid having to build up all the script infrastructure for myself ... intend to use it for various things including an embedded application builder kit
20:22 < mpp> ah k
20:22 < Skapare> don't know for sure if I will use it ... looking at both T2 and Gentoo (including embedded Gentoo)
20:22 < mpp> maybe rxr can drop a line on the aufs target/rescue issue
20:23 < Skapare> Gentoo looks to be too messy to make much changes to
20:23 < mpp> true
20:23 < mpp> therefore we have t2 :-)
20:24 < Skapare> the target users for what I'm planning to build will be people porting linux to all new platforms for the very first time
20:25 < Skapare> platform being a board with a custom configuration ... but based on a common architecture for which tool chain already exists and kernel port has been done
20:26 < Skapare> what I expect to do with T2 is get into building my own targets (after playing around learning it some first with existing targets)
20:27 < Skapare> and the end users shall be able to add their application code to the whole build process so the end result is 100% complete image
20:27 < mpp> that's a domain of t2 definetly
20:28 < Skapare> for example for a cable TV set top box, they would add their cable user graphical interface programs, and their tuner drivers
20:28 < mpp> but be aware it is a build kit and no distro per se
20:28 < Skapare> yeah, T2 looks like a really good fit for this
20:28 < Skapare> yeah, and what I would be building is also that ... not a distro per se
20:29 < Skapare> for all I know, maybe what I'll build can just be added to T2 itself ... I'm doing it all GPL
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20:30 < Skapare> well, I'm going to go find some lunch ... maybe rxr will be back from dinner to answer your issue soon
20:55 < mpp> it seems the rescue target does neither use unionfs nor aufs ...
20:55 < mpp> could be legacy stuff ...
20:55 < mpp> i'm rebuilding the rescue target asap
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 02 00:00:56 2009