--- Log opened Tue Jan 13 00:00:56 2009
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03:05 < haarvik> hi all
03:05 < haarvik> just found T2 and am trying to use it
03:06 < haarvik> which svn should I be using?
03:07 < haarvik> I was using T2-trunk, but was getting an autocong build error. I then got 7.0 and am doing the Download -required to see if this makes a difference
03:08 < haarvik> oh, and I am doing this on the minimal t2 iso installed on my system
03:10 < haarvik> is anyone here?
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03:12 < haarvik> guess no one is listening....thanks
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09:31 < mpp> moinsen
09:33 < synchris> mpp: kalimera
09:34 < mpp> kalimera synchris
09:35 < mpp> kala eise ?
09:35 < synchris> mpp: how is going today?
09:35 < mpp> pretty much straight forward :-)
09:35 < mpp> LOL
09:35 < synchris> mpp: kala leme exw parei ta cables gia to raid contoller
09:35 < synchris> haha
09:35 < synchris> and i didnt got the controller yet
09:35 < mpp> kai toraa ?
09:35 < synchris> bah ;(
09:36 < synchris> mpp: ta cables pou exei mesa to controller theloun backplane
09:36 < synchris> ;p
09:36 < synchris> which is a thing i dont have in my case
09:36 < synchris> and wouldnt ever fit such a thing there
09:37 < synchris> mpp: i am thinking to make just a bunch of raid 6 arrays
09:37 < synchris> ;p
09:37 < mpp> that should do the job
09:37 < synchris> double parity is more safe than one parity
09:37 < synchris> ;p
09:39 < mpp> it's not
09:39 < mpp> !!
09:39 < synchris> mpp: why?
09:39 < synchris> :D
09:40 < synchris> i have two drives fail without loosing data
09:40 < mpp> probability of two discs side by side is almost the same due to env. conditions
09:40 < mpp> yes.yes. but that has nothing to do with the probabilty of a simultanious failure
09:40 < synchris> hahaha
09:40 < synchris> that;s not a fail
09:40 < synchris> that;s a disaster
09:40 < synchris> :P
09:41 < synchris> just the mttf chart
09:41 < synchris> i think raid 6 is the most safe way
09:41 < synchris> ;p
09:42 < synchris> raid1+0 or raid0+1 are worst
09:42 < synchris> i will stick with raid6 that;s it
09:42 < synchris> ;p
09:47 < mpp> the argument is that nowadays reconstr. time is raising due to raising hdd capacity
09:47 < mpp> BUT !!!!
09:47 < mpp> the probability of two hdd's sitting side by side is almost the same
09:48 < mpp> so from a realistic ( statistic ) point of view the mtbf of the whole array does not even increase linear to the number of sustainable fails.
09:48 < mpp> PERIOD !
09:49 < synchris> yup i dont disagree with this...but i will some good test to the hdds before fill them of data
09:49 < synchris> do*
09:51 < CIA-23> rene * r31754 /trunk/package/xorg/xf86-input-evdev/xf86-input-evdev.desc: * updated xf86-input-evdev (2.1.0 -> 2.1.1)
09:51 < mpp> k
09:51 < mpp> moin rxr
09:52 < synchris> and because t2 it seems to be an interesting as far as i've read from the documentation
09:52 < synchris> project*
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10:25 -!- tfl0pz [n=tfl0pz@mail.constalant.com] has joined #t2
10:25 < tfl0pz> howdy
10:27 < tfl0pz> i'm not sure what i did wrong, but now in the chroot environment of my t2 target gcc segfaults with a message illegal instruction
10:27 < tfl0pz> tried to rebuild gcc.. but no luck
10:27 < tfl0pz> any ideas?
10:27 < tfl0pz> (t2-7.0-rc2)
10:27 < rxr> illegal instruction ususally means over optimized for the current CU
10:27 < rxr> CPU
10:28 < tfl0pz> hm
10:28 < rxr> e.g. using newer SSE 2/3/4 etcc. instructions that implemented in the CPU silicon
10:28 < rxr> what CPU do you run on and what optimization did you select ?
10:28 < tfl0pz> i run it on amd x2
10:29 < tfl0pz> in vmware server
10:29 < tfl0pz> i486 optimization
10:30 < tfl0pz> but the thing is it worked fine built everything and at some point when i tried to rebuild a certain package it failed with that error..
10:30 < rxr> hm
10:30 < rxr> it only happens for one package ?
10:30 < tfl0pz> nope it happens for all now
10:31 < tfl0pz> when running ./debug.sh when i type 'gcc' it segfaults
10:33 < rxr> segfaults due SIGILL - illegal instruction ?
10:33 < tfl0pz> mprotect(0x40122000, 4096, PROT_READ) = 0
10:33 < tfl0pz> munmap(0x4001f000, 51073) = 0
10:33 < tfl0pz> --- SIGILL (Illegal instruction) @ 0 (0) ---
10:33 < tfl0pz> +++ killed by SIGILL (core dumped) +++
10:33 < tfl0pz> the last lines of 'strace gcc'
10:33 < rxr> @0 ?
10:34 < rxr> that's strange
10:34 < rxr> maybe something low-level such as the glibc was rebuilt defectly ?
10:34 < rxr> and/or kernel or vmware bug ...
10:34 < rxr> never had such a stranger
10:35 < tfl0pz> i did rm -rf *gcc*.log and it successfully rebuilt stage 0 and 1 but failed on stage 5 gcc
10:35 < tfl0pz> i could try rebuilding glibc if it would help
10:48 < rxr> I never had such an error case, so hard to forecast what helps :-(
11:06 < tfl0pz> i'm sure it will turn out to be something extremely stupid... or, if it gets fixed when the rebuild finishes - we'll never know :)
11:07 < tfl0pz> anyway, thanks :)
11:07 < CIA-23> rene * r31755 /trunk/package/graphic/leptonlib/leptonlib.desc: * updated leptonlib (1.58 -> 1.59)
11:07 < CIA-23> rene * r31756 /trunk/package/base/crash/crash.desc: * updated crash (4.0-7.5 -> 4.0-7.6)
11:07 < CIA-23> rene * r31757 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnome-system-monitor/gnome-system-monitor.desc: * updated gnome-system-monitor (2.24.1 -> 2.24.3)
11:07 < CIA-23> rene * r31758 /trunk/package/gnome2/libsoup/libsoup.desc: * updated libsoup (2.24.2.1 -> 2.24.3)
11:08 < CIA-23> rene * r31760 /trunk/package/mail/qpopper/qpopper.desc: * updated qpopper (4.0.15 -> 4.0.16)
11:08 < CIA-23> rene * r31759 /trunk/package/network/cobbler/cobbler.desc: * updated cobbler (1.4.0 -> 1.4.1)
11:18 < CIA-23> rene * r31761 /trunk/package/base/freeipmi/freeipmi.desc: * updated freeipmi (0.7.4 -> 0.7.5)
11:18 < CIA-23> rene * r31762 /trunk/package/security/gnupg2/ (gcc43.patch gnupg2.desc): * updated gnupg2 (2.0.9 -> 2.0.10)
11:18 < CIA-23> rene * r31763 /trunk/package/gnome2/gucharmap/gucharmap.desc: * updated gucharmap (2.24.2 -> 2.24.3)
11:18 < CIA-23> rene * r31764 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnome-themes/gnome-themes.desc: * updated gnome-themes (2.24.1 -> 2.24.3)
11:19 < CIA-23> rene * r31765 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnome-desktop/gnome-desktop.desc: * updated gnome-desktop (2.24.2 -> 2.24.3)
11:19 < CIA-23> rene * r31766 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnome-terminal/gnome-terminal.desc: * updated gnome-terminal (2.24.2 -> 2.24.3)
11:19 < CIA-23> rene * r31767 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnome-panel/gnome-panel.desc: * updated gnome-panel (2.24.2 -> 2.24.3)
11:19 < CIA-23> rene * r31768 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnome-games/gnome-games.desc: * updated gnome-games (2.24.2 -> 2.24.3)
11:19 < CIA-23> rene * r31769 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnome-session/gnome-session.desc: * updated gnome-session (2.24.2 -> 2.24.3)
11:20 < CIA-23> rene * r31770 /trunk/package/gnome2/libgweather/libgweather.desc: * updated libgweather (2.24.2 -> 2.24.3)
11:20 < CIA-23> rene * r31772 /trunk/package/gnome2/gcalctool/gcalctool.desc: * updated gcalctool (5.24.2 -> 5.24.3)
11:20 < CIA-23> rene * r31771 /trunk/package/gnome2/gtkhtml/gtkhtml.desc: * updated gtkhtml (3.24.2 -> 3.24.3)
11:20 < CIA-23> rene * r31773 /trunk/package/emulators/yabause/yabause.desc: * updated yabause (0.9.8 -> 0.9.9)
11:24 < CIA-23> rene * r31774 /trunk/package/filesystem/udev/udev.desc: * updated udev (135 -> 136)
11:24 < CIA-23> rene * r31775 /trunk/package/gnome2/libgtop/ (libgtop.desc we-know-how-to-correctly-link-files.patch): * updated libgtop (2.24.0 -> 2.24.3)
11:26 < koan> lol @ we-know-how-to-correctly-link-files.patch
11:27 < rxr> yeah - some upstream stuff sometimes is really broken beyond believe ...
11:30 < mpp> i am amused : LOL
11:30 < rxr> but the changeset above actually removes the "hotfix", apparetnly fixed upstream in the meantime ... :-)
12:04 < mpp> hey rxr
12:04 < mpp> at what place would i have to place a "mkidr /var/run/iptraf" to fix the missing directory issue for iptraf ?
12:04 < mpp> we talked about this some time ago .
12:05 < mpp> i would like to fix it but i don't know what you recommend .
12:56 < mpp> udev in trunk is broken
13:15 < mpp> rxr: could we by any chance have the ordinary bzip2 replaced with the parallel version or at least lzma ?
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13:38 < rxr> you mean as binary package output ?
13:42 < mpp> ah yes
13:44 < rxr> I already rewrote mine and adatped the scripts to allow any compression filter
13:44 < rxr> we already have lzo since then
13:44 < rxr> maybe even lzma
13:44 < rxr> it's generally easy to stick another one in since then
13:45 < mpp> k missed that one
13:45 < mpp> sorry !
13:48 < rxr> you're welcome
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13:56 < haarvik> hi everyone
13:56 < rxr> hi haarvik
13:57 < haarvik> new to T2, but looks great
13:57 < rxr> welcome!
13:57 < haarvik> I had an issue building a target...soemthing with perl...so I am building 5.8.8
13:58 < haarvik> I assume that is the right path to take
13:59 < rxr> any chance you are the one you asked via mail about the perl/autoconf issue ?
13:59 < haarvik> yup, thats me
14:00 < haarvik> just got your email...guess I'm doing it the hard way...lol
14:01 < haarvik> just out of curiosity...once I get the feel for building targets, how hard is it to take a program and port it?
14:05 < haarvik> got an error: make: *** No rule to make target `', needed by `miniperlmain.o'. Stop.
14:05 < haarvik> should I try 5.10.0?
14:06 < rxr> maybe just use t2/trunk
14:06 < haarvik> I'll try that
14:06 < rxr> packaging existing programs for T2 is normally quite easy
14:07 < haarvik> cool
14:07 < haarvik> how small of a footprint can I get with minimal X?
14:07 < koan> haarvik: I'm also relatively new to T2 and I have already succesfully ported some programs, it's rather straightforward if you read the documentation and have a look at existing T2 packages
14:07 < haarvik> ok
14:08 < haarvik> most of what I need is already there, but there are a couple nice to haves as well.
14:08 < haarvik> I would love to be able to contribute back once I get my feet wet
14:18 < haarvik> success! Autoconf built without errors!
14:18 < rxr> :-)
14:18 < haarvik> thank you for the help!
14:22 < haarvik> you're right. In looking at the package files it appears to be fairly easy. Can't wait to try it!
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14:29 < tfl0pz> re
14:30 < tfl0pz> rxr, i did rebuild *gcc* on all stages and it's ok now
14:31 < haarvik> ? I would like to build for the intel Atom architecture...are there any gotchas I should watch for?
14:31 < rxr> not really
14:31 < koan> haarvik: which Atom? the ones in netbooks are 32 bit processors
14:31 < haarvik> cool
14:32 < rxr> koan: yes, indeed that's the only thing one needs to take care of
14:32 < haarvik> yes, that's the one...1.6ghz processor and i810 chipset
14:32 < koan> N270?
14:32 < rxr> most are 1.6 GHz
14:32 < rxr> the letter before the number is the important indicator
14:33 < rxr> N == "Netbook" == no 64bit and no VT
14:33 < rxr> the Z series has VT, but still no 64bit
14:33 < koan> for that one you can build for i686
14:33 < rxr> the ones without letter have 64bit ...
14:33 < haarvik> not problem...I am building an HTPC platform
14:33 < rxr> (but no VT IIRC)
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14:34 < haarvik> thought about the VIA Eden, but enough is out already...nothing really for the Atom
14:35 < rxr> the Via Nano would be quite cool if it would be out in the wild, it's 64bit and has VT
14:35 < rxr> (at least the SPECs list it - still none seen in real life)
14:35 < haarvik> yup
14:35 < haarvik> haven't read much on the pico
14:36 < haarvik> wasn't the nano supposed to be relaesed like 4 years ago?
14:36 < rxr> well - not quite
14:36 < rxr> but they talk for 2-3 years about it already
14:36 < rxr> and they claim it's shipping since 1 year ... .-(
14:36 < haarvik> I was developing for the eden back in '02, and they were talking about it back then
14:37 < rxr> the first device, some Samsung UMPC, was announced on the CES some days ago ...
14:37 < haarvik> hmmm...
14:37 < rxr> yeah - it's crazzy how slow this Nano went ...
14:37 < haarvik> well, one can only hope it lives up to the hype
14:41 < haarvik> another ? ... how fast does a T2 build boot?
14:41 < koan> it's the fastest linux boot I've ever seen :-)
14:42 < haarvik> nice...I know Moblin claims 5 seconds..but thena gain they had to strip oout hardware cehcking to do it
14:44 < koan> I haven't timed it, but the difference in boot time between t2 and debian on the same computer is significant
14:44 < haarvik> wow...that says alot. Debian is pretty quick in itself
14:45 < haarvik> building an HTPC is gonna require a quick boot time
14:45 < rxr> the default sysvinit boot time is longer than 5s though ...
14:45 < rxr> but historically been fast as koan found out .-)
14:46 < rxr> if you want to put in some extra work you can use another init and further cut it down
14:46 < haarvik> well, if it's under 30s then that si what I am after
14:46 < rxr> the rescue target (and our example pre-built t-resc rescue ISOs) use minit and boot even quicker ...
14:46 < rxr> but use a standard t2 setup / target first to get used to t2 and then do experiements :-)
14:46 < haarvik> yeah I noticed when I did the isntall the CD was fast
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14:47 [Users #t2]
14:47 [@ChanServ] [ dsoul ] [ LMJ] [ rxr ] [ tfl0pz ]
14:47 [ axionix ] [ haarvik] [ mpp] [ Stealth ] [ TobiX ]
14:47 [ CIA-23 ] [ koan ] [ mtr] [ synchris] [ |beowulf|]
14:47 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 15 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal]
14:47 < haarvik> yup that's the goal. Once get successful build, then I can poke under the hood and tweak things
14:47 < rxr> http://www.t2-project.org/packages/minit.html
14:48 < haarvik> impressive...I like the respawn feature
14:49 < haarvik> so on average, how long does it take to build a minimal X?
14:50 < rxr> depends 100% on the building hardware - my 4 core builds a minimal X in hours, my 360MHz UltraSPARC needs a week ...
14:51 < haarvik> well I have a 2.8Ghz AMD and 1 GB ram
14:51 < haarvik> I'm guessing aobut 12 hours?
14:51 < rxr> maybe - about
14:52 < haarvik> I noticed it's building development tools...gcc, automake, etc. Is there a way to not include them in the buidl, or are they required?
14:52 < rxr> for the start of the build they are required, but you can leave / filter them out for the final images
14:53 < haarvik> gotcha
14:53 < rxr> (filter, because you need some startup stubs and libraries of gcc even in the run-time system, such as lib_s.so or libstdc++.so etc.)
14:54 < haarvik> that's what I thought...I just don't want a system that can compile programs...not needed
14:55 < haarvik> sorry for all the ?'s. Ive tried many so called embedded tools and had nothing but issues.
14:59 < rxr> you can filter out non-runtime stuff in the final image processing
14:59 < rxr> the rescue target does so IIRC (as an example)
14:59 < haarvik> very nice
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15:18 < haarvik> thanks for all the help and info everyone. I'll be back on later.
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15:18 < rxr> hi Cyda
15:57 < koan> rxr: what are you doing in puredarwin? :-)
16:00 < rxr> lurking
16:00 < rxr> oh - you're there too?
16:00 < koan> yes
16:00 < rxr> what're you doing there :-)?
16:00 < koan> I have been lurking there for some time :-)
16:00 < rxr> :-)
16:01 < koan> it looks interesting, only a pity that they have a pretty arcane build system
16:01 < rxr> is there some talk in the chan, or rather silence ?
16:01 < koan> not many talks, but occasionally some interesting updates on the project
16:02 < koan> as a once-mac os x user I keep interested in the darwin family
16:02 < rxr> :-)
16:05 < koan> are you considering a port of the darwin kernel to T2? ;-)
16:05 < rxr> not in the next days - just want to peek into what they talk and how the progress
16:06 < Cyda> hi rxr
16:06 < rxr> Cyda: I wish you and your family a happy new year!
16:07 < Cyda> same to you :)
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16:54 < CIA-23> rene * r31776 /trunk/package/emulators/kvm/99-ehci.patch.disabled:
16:54 < CIA-23> * imported qemu/kvm ehci emulation patch rediffed to current kvm version
16:54 < CIA-23> (does not yet work)
17:15 < CIA-23> rene * r31777 /trunk/package/emulators/kvm/99-ehci.patch.disabled: * ported 99-ehci.patch.disabled to new base-less mmio methods of current qemu/kvm
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17:32 < haarvik> got a ?
17:32 < haarvik> Does T2 not support SATA drives?
17:33 < koan> it does, I had it running on a SATA drive
17:33 < haarvik> I'm trying to install on a SATA drive, and the installer says no HD found
17:33 < rxr> of course t2 supports anyting linux does, and so SATA
17:34 < rxr> maybe the t2 build kernel does not come with the sata driver yet?
17:34 < haarvik> this is the small iso, not a target system
17:35 < haarvik> do I need to pass some sort of command at boot?
17:37 < haarvik> I checked the BIOS and it sees it...just not sure why T2 installer doesn't see it.
17:41 < haarvik> let me clarify...trying to install T2 SDE
17:46 < rxr> which t2 version?
17:50 < haarvik> 7.0
17:54 < rxr> mazbe the board is super new and the 7.0 kernel does not yet come with the specifical SATA driver ?
17:55 < haarvik> could be...it is a new board
17:55 < haarvik> intel G45M
17:56 < CIA-23> rene * r31778 /trunk/package/emulators/kvm/postlinux.conf: * fixed kvm postlinux build
17:57 < CIA-23> rene * r31779 /trunk/package/emulators/kvm/03-qemu-lpc.patch: * changed kvm/03-qemu-lpc.patch pci header type for linux guests
17:59 < CIA-23> rene * r31780 /trunk/package/emulators/kvm/99-ehci.patch.disabled:
17:59 < CIA-23> * fixed 99-ehci.patch.disabled debug #ifdef white-spacing
17:59 < CIA-23> and uncommented the ehci info monitor command
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21:12 < tri> moin
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21:57 < haarvik> I'm back with another questiom :)
21:58 < haarvik> How do you use distcc with T2?
22:03 < rxr> you need nodes with the exactly matching / compatible gcc as built by t2
22:03 < rxr> other people also already asked - I should indeed write a zine article about that in detail ...
22:03 < rxr> http://t2-project.org/zine/
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22:36 < haarvik> yup I know...but how to invoke it.
22:38 < haarvik> can I find it in the mail archives?
22:41 < haarvik> nope, not in there :(
22:43 < haarvik> I need to speed up this build process...this is killing me
23:00 < tri> rxr: you have mail :-)
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 14 00:00:02 2009