--- Log opened Sun Sep 21 00:00:56 2008
--- Day changed Sun Sep 21 2008
00:00 < Morglet> I'm against sacrifice, unless they're politicians or lawyers.
00:05 < mpp> shoot the lawyers first ( citate boston legal)
00:06 < Morglet> Yep. If you don't shoot the lawyers first, they'll just breed more politicians.
00:06 < mpp> LOLOLO !!!!
00:06 < mpp> this univers is a fun and refreshing place
00:07 < mpp> mpp likes it
00:07 < Morglet> We may deserve that asteroid that's coming our way in 2039
00:08 < mpp> just to be clear - timespace continuum has to be constant for that to happen
00:08 < mpp> which we all know - it's not
00:09 < mpp> so what the hack .
00:09 < Morglet> Oh don't worry, if there's a problem with the timespace continuum, the politicians will save us by passing an appropriate law.
00:09 < mpp> Morglet amuses mpp a lot LOL
00:09 < mpp> so there is something to british humor.
00:10 < mpp> i am amused -
00:10 < Morglet> I wouldn't know. I stopped watching the telly years ago, too much crap.
00:10 < mpp> who said anything about telle
00:10 < mpp> i was talking about the fridge mate !
00:10 < mpp> LOL
00:10 < Morglet> Fair enough :-)
00:12 < mpp> are in office Morglet ?
00:13 < mpp> are you ....
00:13 < mpp> today my brain is really fucked .
00:13 < mpp> whatever
00:13 < Morglet> Home atm. Freelance anyway, so mostly home.
00:13 < mpp> right ...
00:13 < mpp> so you 've got the electronic pizza pox @ home ?
00:14 < Morglet> So what's your excuse for working on a Saturday? :P
00:14 < mpp> im mean the hp dl ... something
00:14 < mpp> actually im on holiday for several weeks
00:14 < Morglet> Yep, it's here. It'll go in a colo once it's set up.
00:14 < mpp> i see
00:15 < mpp> you could also mirror some of the t2 iso images
00:15 < mpp> i volunteered to help out .
00:15 < mpp> ?
00:15 < mpp> maybe
00:15 < mpp> i setup thttpd with bw limiting
00:15 < mpp> thttpd is really nice
00:16 < mpp> hold on a sec
00:16 < mpp> mpp has a fun video for Morglet - checking my bookmarks
00:17 < mpp> http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1sJqROHxjDA&ei=UXbVSM6HIaHCnAOdy-D8DQ&usg=AFQjCNGa6AWlNRp2MfnjYQVqaPg2opuIhQ&sig2=qCYC3SzkeFrON6vwef-i0Q
00:17 < mpp> crap
00:17 < Morglet> Yep, I could do that, although haven't picked a colo yet. I've noticed you guys need some help on downloads, you seem to be overloaded.
00:17 < mpp> www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJqROHxjDA
00:17 < Morglet> Looking
00:17 < mpp> yes i have 2 mirrors up know dl2 and dl3
00:17 < mpp> atm they are syncig with rxr 's machine
00:18 < mpp> hope the will be done sometime next week
00:18 < mpp> dl2.t2-project.org has allready some stuff available
00:18 < mpp> one can see that rsync is still in the loop
00:18 < mpp> this vide is awesome
00:19 < mpp> i found that one after watching "the magicians"
00:19 < Morglet> Erk, I didn't really need to see Bush and Blair
00:19 < mpp> it's a fun movie
00:19 < Morglet> I'm past the point of laughing at politicians. They're destroying what could be a great world.
00:20 < mpp> keep in mind
00:20 < mpp> we made / let them do what they are doing
00:21 < mpp> so it's always our decision - whatever that may be
00:21 < Morglet> It's not that simple. "We" don't actually vote them in ... they've put together a system where there is no option but for them to rotate in.
00:21 < mpp> ah - the victim theory
00:22 < Morglet> I know that in the States, they can vote "None of the above" ... well we can't in the UK
00:22 < mpp> right...
00:22 < Morglet> And unless you tick an approved politician, it's a "spoled vote" and isn't counted.
00:23 < Morglet> spoiled*
00:23 < mpp> like they are'nt already partying like hundreds of years back
00:23 < mpp> who cares
00:23 < mpp> okay ill cut the topic here
00:24 < mpp> whover is interested in whatever - his choice
00:24 < Morglet> Yeah, best. Politics is pointless to watch or discuss.
00:24 < mpp> last but no least a good advice from laotse
00:24 < mpp> he who speaks does not know - he who nows does not speak
00:24 < mpp> :-)
00:25 < mpp> so ... what are you hacking on t2 atm
00:25 < mpp> ?
00:25 < Morglet> Ah, but it's not a "his choice" issue, because that person's choice doesn't affect only him, it affects me as well. So, no. :-(
00:25 < mpp> yes thats a fine topic - personal and collectiv reallity
00:25 < mpp> the big meshed world
00:25 < Morglet> The only thing being hacked atm is what I started yesterday, the Download script. Might continue later tonight
00:26 < mpp> like what pipe is you internet on ?
00:26 < mpp> low bandwidth
00:26 < mpp> i heard the uk has good dsl
00:26 < Morglet> Cable is better here, if it passed in front of your house. 20M cable and 8M ADSL
00:27 < mpp> im x-compiling 32-64bit atm
00:27 < Morglet> The ADSL speed is a max though, depends on distance to exchange. I get only 5Mbps.
00:27 < mpp> i could use a 8-way xeon with loads of ram
00:28 < mpp> or 16-way or 64-way or the like
00:28 < Morglet> So could I. :-) Really should configure it.
00:28 < mpp> and likke 1tb memory
00:29 < mpp> or even bet 2^(2^256) Terrabyte RAM
00:29 < mpp> :-)
00:30 < Morglet> Well it's certainly nice to see 8 penguins in a row on boot.
00:31 < mpp> yea im getting in touch with some nifty hardware temporary
00:31 < mpp> next time i'll have a pxe installer for t2-build up and running to beat the shit out of the t2-build process
00:32 < Morglet> That's one of the reasons I want this T2 box set up, to serve boot files.
00:33 < mpp> k
00:33 < Morglet> In fact I could check I have LVM installed now
00:33 < mpp> the rescue target can be built as initramfs for pxe booting
00:33 < mpp> which mpp uses alot
00:36 < mpp> these x packets are a pain in the *****
00:36 < mpp> all over borken deps or broken source code
00:36 < mpp> what is this stuff
00:37 < Morglet> What's giving you pain?
00:38 < mpp> the x packages are a real mess
00:38 < mpp> who wonders that gui apps crash ...
00:38 < mpp> it's more fun tha pain ... just words
00:40 < Morglet> There's a duff download file for binutils on the server, got a checksum error. I zapped the .chksum-err file and redownloaded, and same again
00:40 < mpp> what package ?
00:40 < Morglet> ERROR: Found download/mirror/b/binutils-2.17.50.0.12.tar.bz2.cksum-err.
00:40 < mpp> binutils ?
00:40 < mpp> hm...
00:41 < Morglet> Aye
00:41 < mpp> do you fetch packages over a http proxy ?
00:41 < Morglet> Not knowingly. The system is as it installed.
00:41 < Morglet> Where should I look?
00:42 < mpp> hold on a sec
00:42 < mpp> do you have a fresh svn checkout for building ?
00:42 < mpp> doesn't look like it
00:43 < Morglet> I grabbed t2-trunk by svn, if that's what you mean
00:43 < mpp> hm....
00:43 < mpp> binutils are updated thats for sure
00:43 < Morglet> The current T2-distribution-target is: t2-trunk
00:43 < mpp> maybe you should svn up again
00:44 < mpp> maybe you have some garbeled other files
00:44 < Morglet> Wee script that switches between various
00:44 < mpp> which could explain some of your obscure problems
00:44 < Morglet> I'll grab a fresh one
00:44 < mpp> you should
00:45 < mpp> you svn is definetly behind like a month or even more
00:46 < Morglet> New one coming down. What was the magic incantation again after svn's finished? Something before Config I think.
00:46 < mpp> no more like a year
00:46 < mpp> i checked the svn log
00:46 < mpp> the binutils you have are from 28-sep-2007
00:47 < mpp> are you a timetraveler or even a time lord ? :-) LOL
00:47 < Morglet> Shhh, incognito
00:47 < mpp> could you barrow me sonic screwdriver perhaps
00:47 < mpp> im kinda stuck here ...
00:48 < mpp> what . what !!! it's just doctor
00:48 < mpp> oh.
00:48 < mpp> LOL :-)
00:48 < Morglet> Vogons are passing this way next week, try stick a thumb out
00:48 < mpp> we are darleks - we are supreme - exterminate exterminate !!!
00:48 < mpp> LOL
00:49 < Morglet> Hey Mr Dalek, I recommend you eat politicians first. Blood will rust your insides, but politicians are slimy bastards with nice oil in their veins.
00:50 < mpp> LOLOLOL
00:50 < Morglet> OK, got svn
00:50 < Morglet> Back to manual ....
00:50 < mpp> listen Morglet - i had good laugh here thanx man
00:50 < Morglet> Easy on the "man", we're all dogs on the Internet
00:51 < mpp> lol - ---- lol
00:51 < mpp> dog - reverse - god
00:51 < mpp> ill take that for granted
00:51 < Morglet> Hahaha --- nice :-)
00:51 < mpp> live is evil
00:51 < mpp> yadayadayada
00:52 < Morglet> Ah, so that's why Microsoft called their 360 service Live.
00:52 < mpp> well thats another fun topic
00:52 < mpp> conspiracy transpiracy --- whatever you like
00:52 < Morglet> OK, running Config on new svn
00:53 < mpp> yea like the smurfs with the chief redhat and the followers with white capes
00:53 < mpp> you catch my drift - !
00:53 < Morglet> Ummm ....
00:54 < mpp> know the smurfs
00:54 < mpp> ?
00:54 < Morglet> Well it's certainly true that, for a community supposedly rejecting the Cathedral in favour of the Bazaar, there's a hell of a lot of high priests around.
00:57 < Morglet> OK, new trunk configured. What should I do first as a test?
00:58 < mpp> run a bootstrap target - minimal after and so forth
00:58 < mpp> download -required helps
00:58 < Morglet> Ummm
00:59 * Morglet checks manual for bootstrap targets
00:59 < mpp> its generic -> bootstrap
00:59 < Morglet> Tnx, found it
00:59 < Morglet>
01:02 < Morglet> I still don't know what I'm doing. I understand (in theory) that T2 is a system generator, rather than a distro per se, yet I'm installing packages into my running system, AFAICS, not into a separate target.
01:02 < Morglet> So I still have some big gaps to fill.
01:02 < mpp> nope
01:02 < mpp> there a 2 things to know
01:02 * Morglet listens
01:03 < mpp> 1. stuff that resides inside the chrooted build/mytarget/.....
01:03 < mpp> 2. Emerge-Pkg
01:03 < mpp> the later one install on the host
01:03 < mpp> the 1. builds inside chrooted environment
01:04 < mpp> so if do scripts/Build-Target -cfg myconfig
01:04 < mpp> youre building in a chrooted tree in the build dir
01:04 < mpp> thats basically all to disticnt in between
01:05 < mpp> are you with me on that ?
01:05 < Morglet> Aha! So all the scripts ending in -Pkg affect the host, and Build-Target (and presumably others) operate on target
01:06 < mpp> ahmm...
01:06 < mpp> i think so the handbook should be read by all of us
01:06 < mpp> it clearly points out the process.
01:07 < mpp> you should consider that you allready messed up your host system
01:07 < mpp> happened to me in the beginning
01:07 < mpp> well you know the word:
01:07 < mpp> rtfm
01:07 < mpp> :-)
01:07 < Morglet> No point restarting now, since I'd just mess it up again. I'll get a bit further first, then redo it.
01:08 < mpp> right ...
01:08 < mpp> enable ccache do save you some time on the build process
01:08 < Morglet> But when a person with my background messes this up, I think it's a sign of a problem, lol
01:08 < mpp> hale to the king !
01:08 < Morglet> Hehe
01:09 < mpp> oh sorry -
01:09 < mpp> wrong place i gues it should be rather good bless the queen
01:09 < mpp> seriously
01:09 < mpp> where did i leave my manners today ...
01:09 < Morglet> It's OK, I know you meant Elvis, I'll pass your regards on to him when we next touch base.
01:10 < mpp> i guess there kinda brainfucked
01:10 < Morglet> (I actually hate Elvis, but it makes for easy jokes :P)
01:12 < mpp> ping
01:12 < Morglet> Your microwave finished.
01:13 < mpp> hmm... nice :-)
01:13 < mpp> reinstalling universe.....rebooting .... ping
01:13 < Morglet> I think I need to delete all those downloads the previous system made ... only got 1 gig left now.
01:14 < mpp> Morglet is probably right
01:14 < mpp> if it's obvious than it is
01:15 < Morglet> Eeeeek! The download and package directories are inside the svn trunk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
01:15 < Morglet> LOL
01:16 < Morglet> OK, I *really* don't get the model you guy/gals are working to.
01:16 < mpp> of course they are
01:16 < mpp> you can symlink it if you want to
01:17 < mpp> well it's simple
01:17 < mpp> its all beneath one directory
01:17 < mpp> no big deal
01:17 < Morglet> Sure, I can get around it. But I need to know WHY you're doing it this way, since it implies total loss of downloads and packages each time the system scripts are reloaded.
01:18 < mpp> it doesn't
01:18 < mpp> the svn co only modifies certeain directorys
01:19 < mpp> so nothing gets deleted if it's not marked in the svn manifest
01:19 < Morglet> It does if you're redoing it from scratch to get a clean set. Of course if you just do it over the top of the old one then it doesn;t.
01:19 < mpp> thats why a symlink to theses dirs make sence
01:19 < mpp> config/ build/ download/
01:20 < Morglet> Right, I'll do that immediately. Might be an idea to set it up that way by default :-)
01:20 < mpp> keep in mind that t2 is more targeted to skilled people who know what they are doing
01:20 < mpp> i had my lessons for beeing lazy with that stuff
01:21 < mpp> but it's always like that when you are in a hurry to get things done
01:21 < mpp> t2 is what it is
01:21 < mpp> it does a very good job -
01:21 < mpp> hase some caveats - but it's here for us to use it
01:22 < Morglet> Nah, T2 is what people will make of it, not what it was/is. You have to look to the future always :-)
01:22 < mpp> i do
01:22 < mpp> the future is inside
01:22 < mpp> ourselfs
01:22 < Morglet> Oooh, mystic ;-)
01:22 < mpp> so complaining on things means discarding the good parts
01:23 < mpp> t2 does work in many ways and it is very good at bootstrapping a tailor made system
01:23 < mpp> for the mystic part
01:23 < Morglet> Nope. Complaining about good parts means discarding good parts. But complaining about bad parts means discarding bad parts ;-)
01:24 < mpp> everything you need is already here
01:24 < Morglet> And nobody will ever need more than 640k
01:24 < mpp> right...
01:24 < mpp> thats bills opinion
01:24 < mpp> as people in asia say : opinions are temporary ... they change like the wind
01:24 < mpp> and the do !
01:25 < Morglet> Everyone with that opinion is wrong, not just dead Bill. :-) You;re wrong too, when you say T2 is adequate. *Nothing* is ever adequate or satisfactory, except for those who look backwards :-)
01:25 < Morglet> s/dead/dear/
01:25 < mpp> thats an opinion
01:26 < Morglet> Look forward and improve, it's the only way we come down from the trees.
01:26 < mpp> living in the present is the true art
01:27 < Morglet> Yeah, it's an art alright, the art of the Luddite :-) I prefer to look forward always, hehe
01:27 < mpp> i accept your way
01:27 < mpp> i am what i do and i do what i am.
01:27 < mpp> thats how things work for me
01:27 < Morglet> Well my way is the way of science and engineering. You'd better accept that way too, else chuck away you computer, cellphone, lightbulb etc :-)
01:28 < Morglet> Always look forward :-)
01:28 < mpp> always look inside
01:28 < Morglet> Always look inside to see what's wrong and can be improved, sure :-)
01:29 < mpp> when the key cannot be found on the brighter places than one should look at places left out
01:29 < mpp> thats mostly inside
01:29 < mpp> okay back to topic.
01:30 < Morglet> That's true enough, in the sense that most of our problems relate to people, not things. But don't want to talk about politicians again ^_^
01:30 < mpp> looks like you already do
01:30 < mpp> :-))))
01:30 < Morglet> Indeed. And on topic, I think I'll be fixing some of your scripts, hehe.
01:30 < mpp> they are rxr's scripts
01:31 < mpp> i use t2 - thats all
01:31 < Morglet> The plural "your", English ambiguity :-)
01:31 < mpp> sorry -
01:31 < Morglet> OK, trying first Download -required in this new setup
01:32 < mpp> however we do have an understanding
01:32 < mpp> despite the fact that english is not my native tounge
01:32 < Morglet> You speak fantastically if Eng is not your 1st
01:32 < mpp> my 1st is german
01:33 < Morglet> Well your Eng is perfect
01:33 < mpp> i do educate myself by consuming unsynced shows and movies
01:33 < mpp> thank you !
01:33 < mpp> you should listen to german synced shows
01:33 < Morglet> What are "unsynced" shows?
01:33 < mpp> you would puke - i promise !!!
01:34 < mpp> well in germany everything is dubbed with german voices
01:34 < Morglet> Oh I'd puke at all shows, hate TV, hehe. Don't like being fed entertainment, except for occasional films.
01:34 < Morglet> Oh I see
01:35 < mpp> yes you are right . but look at the practical side of accepting this crap.
01:35 < Morglet> But there's loads of German media product, no?
01:35 < mpp> my english improved so we can have a good talk
01:35 < Morglet> Hehehe
01:35 < mpp> so thanx to the crap once again
01:35 < Morglet> Well you're certainly right there :-)
01:35 < Morglet> But the opposite would be true here.
01:35 < mpp> agreed on that one
01:36 < mpp> though the flicks are mostly trivial and camera driven
01:36 < Morglet> The English spoken on media here (especially American stuff) is much worse quality than mine. I was actually taught grammar and spelling --- a rarity nowadays!
01:36 < mpp> there is a spark deeper sense in every shit
01:36 < mpp> same in good old germany
01:36 < mpp> whats grammar grandma ...
01:36 < Morglet> Hehe
01:37 < Morglet> I think it's worldwide.
01:37 < mpp> yes the american stuff is what it is . entertainment industry at it's best
01:37 < mpp> fyi i have no tele
01:37 < Morglet> A result of global culture. Kids network well globally, and learning is not "cool".
01:38 < mpp> but i watch movies and tele shows occasionaly
01:38 < mpp> i do like some of the british shows .
01:39 < mpp> and there are some good movies with a deeper spiritualy / emotional backround
01:39 < mpp> so as it turns out:
01:39 < mpp> the world is what you make of it.
01:39 < mpp> im good with all this stuff
01:39 < mpp> think about it
01:39 < mpp> all this junk leads to this nice irc
01:39 < Morglet> I used to watch European media on a free satellite, including huge amounts of French and German stuff, but they moved it away to Scandinavia, so lost feed. Then lost interest in TV altogether.
01:39 < mpp> so we both have a nice chat
01:40 < mpp> never mind
01:40 < mpp> who needs entertainment
01:40 < Morglet> Hehe, mystic again, but true.
01:40 < mpp> it's just that what i say - i'm living up upon it
01:41 < mpp> do what you say and say what you do
01:41 < mpp> simple - and very effective
01:41 < mpp> up to it
01:41 < mpp> sorry
01:42 < Morglet> Well, that sort of works in people areas ... doesn't work in tech though. To say "this is good enough" is to say "this is now obsolete".
01:42 < mpp> well - people made that tec stuff . so whats the tec without people anyway
01:43 < Morglet> Borg++
01:43 < Morglet> :-)
01:43 < mpp> locutus ?
01:43 < mpp> ahhh....
01:43 < mpp> thank god it's 7 of 9
01:43 < mpp> hmmmm.... :-)
01:43 < Morglet> Hehe
01:44 < Morglet> The sooner we're not human the better. Will take a while, alas
01:44 < mpp> denying yourself denies you to the future
01:45 < mpp> because you form the future
01:45 < mpp> so whats the point of self denial
01:45 < mpp> none
01:45 < Morglet> We're already denied the future, since we're perishable protein. We need better engineering materials
01:46 < Morglet> And I'm en engineer anyway, so "Death is an engineering problem" is my mantra.
01:46 < mpp> some while ago i heard a young man say:
01:46 < mpp> " you want to control the world..."
01:47 < mpp> " but how can you - when you're not even capable of self control"
01:47 < mpp> true that is !
01:47 < mpp> if death is your mantra - than that's it.
01:48 < Morglet> Yep, it's very true, and it's a very good reason for getting rid of the messy squishy protein that's at the root of the problem. :-)
01:48 < mpp> knwo yourself and you'll know the universe - old wisdom - how true it is
01:48 < mpp> :-)
01:49 < Morglet> We can't control ourselves because (i) we're a squishy illogical mess, and (ii) we can't create something better because our mental ability is extremely low.
01:49 < Morglet> So the only answer is replacement of the squishy illogical mess :-)
01:50 < Morglet> We will never know ourselves, btw. by Godel.
01:50 < mpp> speaking low of yourself takes away your power
01:50 < mpp> and saying that you are incapable in any ways - makes you incapabel
01:50 < mpp> that's how things work
01:51 < mpp> man creates man harvests
01:51 < Morglet> It goes with the territory as an engineer to say that bad machinery is bad, simply an objective statement. And that has to apply even to oneself, if the engineer is honest. :-)
01:51 < mpp> you are capable -
01:51 < Morglet> Saying we're great is willful delusion :-)
01:52 < Morglet> We're as good as we are. :-)
01:52 < mpp> i think you're worth more than that to yourself
01:52 < mpp> when mind and soul calms - you can see right through
01:53 < mpp> yourself
01:53 < Morglet> But our IQ in very low 3 figures (if that) will be ludicrous against IQs of millions and billions by machinery. So yeah, we have to accept ourselves as pretty lousy ... but the best we have currently.
01:53 < mpp> ...
01:53 < mpp> found a mistake in the universe ...
01:54 < mpp> get back to the owner and tell him
01:54 < mpp> :-)
01:54 < mpp> what he will tell you
01:54 < Morglet> I'm seeing the Flying Spaghetti Monster on Wednesday, I'll let him know.
01:54 < mpp> k
01:55 < mpp> compilin x stuff is messy
01:55 < mpp> i give up on gui stuff
01:55 < mpp> anyways i need t2 more for server's
01:55 < mpp> i'll leave the fancy graphics to the distro folks
01:56 < mpp> so Morglet - i've had enough of meaningfull chatting
01:57 < Morglet> Me too. :-) I think I need to kill a few mobs in some game.
01:57 < mpp> let's turn over to some more trivial stuff
01:57 < mpp> stick with nike: just do it !
01:57 < Morglet> Righto. I know some minor gods that need killing, off to do it ;-)
01:58 < mpp> enjoy
01:58 < Morglet> Hehe, cya later
01:58 < mpp> i'll see you around
02:02 < mpp> good night - good fight !
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02:32 < mpp> back again
02:46 < hikenboot> if a package isnt on your list of packages can it be included?
02:46 < hikenboot> if so how
03:04 < mpp> yes you can add cutom rules via stone or add manually to the pkgsel file
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12:14 < CIA-8> rene * r30513 /trunk/package/gnome2/orbit2/orbit2.desc: * updated orbit2 (2.14.14 -> 2.14.16)
12:15 < rxr> hm - damn
12:15 < CIA-8> rene * r30514 /trunk/package/scientific/gmp/gmp.desc: * updated gmp (4.2.3 -> 4.2)
12:35 < CIA-8> rene * r30515 /trunk/package/scientific/gmp/gmp.desc: * updated gmp (4.2 -> 4.2.4), as it should have been in r30514
13:05 < CIA-8> rene * r30516 /trunk/package/textproc/msort/msort.desc: * updated msort (8.47 -> 8.48)
13:05 < CIA-8> rene * r30517 /trunk/package/network/stunnel/stunnel.desc: * updated stunnel (4.25 -> 4.26)
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15:19 < mpp> what's up ?
15:24 < bfg> hi. nothing special... and over there? :)
15:26 < bfg> mpp: I have seen you had trouble building xorg-radeon (the /dev/null thing) .... have you solved it?
15:26 < bfg> I have tracked it down a week or two ago...
15:26 < mpp> nope
15:27 < bfg> it is the configure script which does some strange output redirection to /dev/null... and so the flwrapper believes that /dev/null is created during build
15:27 < bfg> that's all.... :)
15:27 < mpp> oh....
15:27 < bfg> so fixing flwrapper or patching configure should solve it
15:27 < mpp> good idea.
15:27 < mpp> several drivers have these issues
15:28 < mpp> i'm just to lazy to have them patched
15:28 < bfg> seems to be an xorg configure creation issue :)
15:28 < bfg> maybe recreating configure script with the corrected macros will do it either
15:28 < mpp> besides i can live with a vesa driver since i build t2 for server purposes
15:28 < mpp> or none at all
15:29 < bfg> but yes.. flwrapper should not recognize this as file creation, just because the system call sys it so :)
15:29 < bfg> sys => says :)
15:29 < mpp> wth as a > /dev/null to do inside configure
15:30 < bfg> hiding output
15:30 < mpp> looks like crappy source code
15:30 < bfg> it is
15:30 < bfg> indeed
15:30 < mpp> so it deserves to stay righ there where it is
15:30 < mpp> :-)
15:30 < bfg> and it also does not remove all temporary files during testing (IIRC)
15:31 < mpp> puhh
15:31 < mpp> what a mess
15:31 < bfg> jep
15:31 < mpp> reminds one of other O.S.'es
15:31 < mpp> ;-)
15:32 < bfg> must have done someone who is not used to auto-tools and m4 scripting :)
15:32 < mpp> or more likely s/he does have no clue of *nx
15:32 < mpp> *n*x
15:32 < mpp> that is
15:33 < bfg> I would say auto-tools and m4 is quite cryptic... so... it's little excuse :)
15:33 < mpp> right - so why did the others get along with it ?
15:33 < mpp> hm.... let me seee
15:33 < mpp> no clue no build
15:33 < mpp> :-)
15:34 < bfg> the others have not written their m4 macros by themselves? :)
15:34 < mpp> ooohhhh
15:34 < mpp> like - take binaries or die ...
15:34 < bfg> jep
15:35 < mpp> so what is bfg using t2 for ?
15:35 < bfg> mmm... I had just troubles with prebuilt distributions :)
15:35 < mpp> welcome to the club !
15:35 < bfg> started out with rock-linux
15:36 < bfg> and followed the fork of T2 :)
15:36 < mpp> yeah in a similar way i had a switch to slackware many years ago
15:36 < bfg> slackware was one of the first ditributions I abandoned
15:36 < mpp> mpp remembers exactly doing ./configure make make install on suse
15:36 < mpp> so did I
15:36 < bfg> and after that reinstall?
15:36 < bfg> :)
15:37 < mpp> but i learned some stuff about linux source code
15:37 < mpp> to be precise of oss packages
15:37 < mpp> so id did an educational job on me
15:37 < mpp> nowadays i stick with a popular debian fork on my productive machines
15:37 < bfg> suse made always big troubles if you did something by hand and not with their provided tools (but I have to say since 9.0 oder 10.0 it is much better in theses use cases)
15:38 < mpp> testing all updates etc. is time consuming
15:38 < mpp> suse is out
15:38 < bfg> sure it is
15:38 < mpp> so is fedora and the rest
15:38 < mpp> they patch to death
15:38 < mpp> which they obviously deserve in some fashion
15:38 < bfg> I just wanted to say it is not that crappy as it was (but still is)
15:38 < mpp> agreed upon that
15:39 < mpp> one of my colo servers runs lts 8.0.4
15:39 < mpp> the others t2
15:40 < bfg> fedora / centos.... ok I can live with that.... but only if I don't care about the machines and some customers think, they must have a big company name behind their system software :)
15:41 < bfg> debian woudl be ok too but makes often troubles with modern hardware
15:43 < mpp> i use ubuntu lts 8.0.4 becaus of support reasons
15:44 < mpp> i'm okay with that
15:44 < bfg> :).... I don't like it, but it's true... it is really easy to use :)
15:44 < mpp> besides reinstallin upgrading servers after 18months max is boring and troulbesome
15:44 < bfg> and quite modern
15:44 < mpp> yea but as i use these servers my self alone
15:45 < mpp> i can have it that way
15:45 < bfg> I would say one of the best desktop distributions currently available (I have no experience with ubuntu server)
15:45 < mpp> i got other things to do besides patching my servers by hand .
15:45 < bfg> for servers I go normally with centos if support is requied
15:46 < mpp> yea centos is okay so are some other fellas
15:47 < mpp> where is Morglet ?
15:47 < bfg> xen works quite well with centos :)
15:47 < bfg> no idea
15:47 < mpp> yes the thing about xen is .... it's fading already
15:48 < mpp> speaking of which
15:48 < mpp> i had trouble getting kvm built on t2
15:50 < bfg> never tried...
15:50 < bfg> it is by default deactivated... so it is very likely that it is broken
15:50 < mpp> well since it works with kqemu it's worth a look
15:50 < mpp> so it is
15:50 < mpp> i figured allready
15:50 < mpp> maybe rxr can provide a fix
15:51 < bfg> I am pretty sure he deactivated it :)
15:51 < mpp> mpp could have looked closer at the svn log
15:52 < bfg> mmm.. the last log says... builds fine, but has shared file problems....
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15:52 < bfg> so only build qemu or kvm but not both :)
15:52 < bfg> should work then
15:52 < mpp_> right
15:53 < mpp_> but that is kinda sloooooow
15:53 < mpp_> you know i'm sayin'
15:53 < mpp_> sloooooooooow
15:53 < mpp_> :-)
15:53 < bfg> it is
15:54 < mpp_> does xen build on t2 ?
15:55 < mpp_> gotta give it a try
15:55 < bfg> i have no idea... I think you will have to tweak a couple of things to make it work (or maybe a couple of things more :) )
15:56 < mpp_> hm...
15:56 < mpp_> the vmware-server also has build issues - like we all know - anyanyanyany -patch
15:56 < mpp_> puhhhh
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16:01 < bfg> I tried XEN quite a while ago with T2 (before Xen 3)... the hardest thing was to get the kernel right (patching, configuring, compiling aso...)... but then it was quite ok..
16:01 < bfg> vmware-server ... yeah .. builds mostly fine, but now I have a libxcb issue with the vmware-konsole
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16:11 < mpp_afk> .
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19:39 < mpp> .
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20:41 < mpp> re
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22:04 < mpp> hey koan
22:05 < koan> hi mpp
22:05 < mpp> how are you doing man.
22:06 < koan> good, although somewhat busy times
22:06 < mpp> k
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23:57 * mpp installs kde via scripts/Emerge -deps=indirect kdebase
23:58 * mpp is suprised despite the bloat only a few broken deps
--- Log closed Mon Sep 22 00:00:05 2008