T2 IRC Log: 2007-09-07

This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.

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--- Log opened Fri Sep 07 00:00:38 2007
00:23 -!- Brian|lfs [n=Brian@208-59-127-152.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #t2
00:25 < Brian|lfs> hello
00:25 < Brian|lfs> I just want to know why someone would take a good idea like T2 and make it so the default is to compile every package known to man?
00:25 < Brian|lfs> How would want that much stuff in their distro its dumb?
00:26 < Ragnar|away> who would make the selection?
00:26 < Brian|lfs> Also there is no documentation on how to block packages from compiling and why would controlling what packages are compiled be under expert hideing.
00:27 < sepp_> gets philosophical now :p
00:27 < Brian|lfs> Who would think the default templete is going to compile everythihng?
00:27 < sepp_> there are templates to select from
00:27 < sepp_> like minimal-xorg ...
00:27 < Brian|lfs> ya but how do you know what are in them
00:27 < sepp_> minimal and xorg
00:28 < Brian|lfs> Is there jsut one with xorg and gnome oir xorg and kde?
00:28 < sepp_> minimal does not mean gnome or kde
00:28 < Brian|lfs> my firend and I where making a distro togeahter and he came in ealirer and when my firend asked the same questions eveyrone acted like I don't know
00:29 < sepp_> i just answered his questions
00:30 < Brian|lfs> so is that a yes or no
00:30 < Brian|lfs> I would think xorg is just the base and xorg
00:30 < sepp_> there is minimal, minimal-xorg and minimal-desktop
00:31 < sepp_> + a desktop target with kde and gimp and such things
00:31 < Brian|lfs> what does minual desktop do
00:31 < sepp_> it has neither gnome nor full kde, but gtk and qt
00:31 < sepp_> to build things like gnome or some qt things
00:31 < Ragnar|away> if you want to fine-tune what gets included, you're welcome to make your own target
00:32 < Ragnar|away> (taking the minimal-* as template)
00:32 < Brian|lfs> how would I go about that
00:32 < sepp_> Brian|lfs: looks there -> http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/target/generic/pkgsel/50-minimal-desktop.in
00:32 < Brian|lfs> would I just edit the templete and add the deps for gnome and xorg and stuff
00:33 < sepp_> the lines starting with 'X' is what you get, should at least give an idea
00:33 < Ragnar|away> a good way to start would be to install minimal-xorg and then Emerge-Pkg kdelibs kdebase (for kde) and let emerge slurp in all the dependencies, then add those to your package list for your own target
00:35 < Brian|lfs> would I have to put all dpes or jsut the pacages for gnome and stuff and then the script would know what deps to get?
00:35 < sepp_> you can 'include' existing templates
00:36 < sepp_> use them and add things
00:36 < Brian|lfs> ya I understand that
00:36 < sepp_> or remove
00:36 < Ragnar|away> Emerge-Pkg knows about dependencies, but when you make your target you have to put all the deps in by hand.
00:36 < Brian|lfs> oh
00:36 < Ragnar|away> (emerge may include stuff you don't really need)
00:37 < Brian|lfs> so if I make a target I can just isntall whatever I want to isntall
00:37 < Ragnar|away> yes
00:37 < Brian|lfs> with emerge
00:38 < Ragnar|away> well emerge builds into the running system ... if you want to make a distribution, you'll need to Build-Target
00:38 < Ragnar|away> but emerge can help you figure out the dependencies you need
00:38 < Brian|lfs> can't I jsut look that up on your site the deps
00:38 < Brian|lfs> for most shit
00:39 < Ragnar|away> good luck :)
00:39 < sepp_> emerge also has a -dry-run option
00:39 < Ragnar|away> with the dependencies also having dependencies that may take a while
00:39 < sepp_> lists what it would install ...
00:40 < Brian|lfs> so whats the best way?
00:40 < Brian|lfs> or the easiest way and most reliable
00:40 < Ragnar|away> as I said ... build minimal-xorg
00:40 < Ragnar|away> install that (or chroot into the build dir)
00:40 < Brian|lfs> that will have most of the depos
00:41 < sepp_> if you want a custom desktop distro, best would be minimal-xorg or minimal-desktop and then you add/remove packages
00:41 -!- kic_ [i=kic_@adsl-074-238-088-212.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:41 < Ragnar|away> then run emerge in that environment, and note down what packages it would build
00:41 < Ragnar|away> add those to your target
00:41 < Ragnar|away> and build-target again
00:42 < Brian|lfs> oh ok
00:42 < Brian|lfs> so should I let emerge install the packages or jsut have it do a pretend and then I notate what I want to install
00:43 < Ragnar|away> just pretend
00:44 < Brian|lfs> thats what I figured
00:45 < Brian|lfs> why couldn't you guys have jsut used a pakcage manager that does deps better
00:46 < Brian|lfs> ?
00:46 < Ragnar|away> it's Hard To Do(tm) :)
00:46 < Brian|lfs> huh
00:46 < Brian|lfs> like this isn't hard this way
00:47 < Ragnar|away> it's quite easy when you know what you want
00:47 < Brian|lfs> ya but who would use a distro if there is no dep support
00:47 < sepp_> i do
00:47 < Brian|lfs> people if they need to upgrade packages are going to want to have to install a millon deps seperately
00:48 < Ragnar|away> that's what emerge is for (at least for me)
00:48 < Brian|lfs> it grabs the deps for you
00:48 < Ragnar|away> check for example the dependencies for subversion
00:49 < Brian|lfs> so are you saying emerge will upgrade stuff fine whats ints installed
00:49 < Ragnar|away> yes
00:49 < Brian|lfs> the problem is having installed first?
00:49 < Ragnar|away> with the appropriate options
00:49 < Ragnar|away> yes
00:50 < sepp_> the problem is that for the 1st time you have to figure out what packages you want
00:50 < Brian|lfs> but what happens when new packages are added
00:50 < Ragnar|away> check for example the dependencies for subversion ... cyrus-sasl2, openldap, wxpython ...
00:50 < sepp_> but same is true for any distro, you get a dvd and then it asks you what to isntall
00:50 < Ragnar|away> you don't really want all of those dependencies
00:50 < Brian|lfs> or new deps I mean
00:51 < Ragnar|away> (at least not usually)
00:51 < Ragnar|away> so you have to manually prune the dependencies down anyway
00:51 < Brian|lfs> say I have a distro all built and isntalled then I want to install a completley new app
00:52 < Brian|lfs> so then do I manually have to install it until I make a new distro
00:52 < sepp_> no
00:53 < Ragnar|away> then you'd either, according to your deployment strategy: emerge it on the systems you need it ... or you'd modify your target, run build-target and copy and install the resulting package to the destination machines
00:53 < Ragnar|away> you can do either way ... T2 doesn't limit you
00:54 < Ragnar|away> you can also write a script that checks the master server for new packages each day and install those ...
00:54 < Ragnar|away> up to you
00:55 < Brian|lfs> did you have to write any templetes
00:55 < Brian|lfs> for yourself or are the defualt ones fine for you
00:57 < Ragnar|away> I use the default target since I also do development
00:57 < Brian|lfs> oh so you have every package
00:58 < Brian|lfs> is there any place I can find modified tempeltes that might meet my needs
00:59 < Brian|lfs> does T2 have a instalelr even once you things are on a iso
01:00 < Brian|lfs> instalelr
01:00 < Brian|lfs> installer I can't type tonight
01:00 * Ragnar|away looks at sepp_ ... I usually install by mine -i -R /mnt * after mounting the package dir :)
01:00 < Ragnar|away> haven't checked the install cd for a while :)
01:01 < Brian|lfs> wouldn't you have to tar -jxvg every package seperately
01:02 < Ragnar|away> mine does that
01:03 < Brian|lfs> in terms of branding would it be hard to change everything to a name I want
01:03 < Ragnar|away> quite simple
01:03 < Brian|lfs> is there a script to do that in T2 or would I have to do it manual
01:04 < Ragnar|away> manual of course
01:04 < Brian|lfs> How would i re packge the stuff afterwards?
01:04 < Ragnar|away> hm?
01:04 < Ragnar|away> why would you?
01:05 < Brian|lfs> to distribute if I want to make my own distro
01:08 < sepp_> i usually burn a dvd
01:08 < Brian|lfs> of the files installed already
01:09 < Brian|lfs> oh do you re tar then up
01:09 < sepp_> t2 builds in a sandbox
01:09 < sepp_> if you run build-target
01:10 < Brian|lfs> so if I build a system and install I can run t2 and it will take the install and rebuild a target?
01:11 < sepp_> sorry, what is the question?
01:12 < Brian|lfs> I know what packages Z want and nio they build so how would I add graphics and other branding and convert them back into packages o the stuff could be put on a dic
01:13 < Brian|lfs> or would i be better off making a package with that stuff?
01:13 < sepp_> you would need to know bash to change some of the packages
01:13 < Brian|lfs> oh
01:14 < sepp_> i guess you want some desktop with your background and theme and such?
01:15 < Brian|lfs> ya and maybe say the nane iof the distro on boot and on the top of the consoles
01:16 < sepp_> well, i don't know how you do that with gnome or kde
01:17 < Brian|lfs> I don't eihte rlol
01:17 < Brian|lfs> I'm sure there is some hidden fiels that control that stuff
01:17 < Ragnar|away> check out how gentoo does that :)
01:18 < Brian|lfs> and probably you can do somehting like %username%
01:18 < Brian|lfs> you have a point why reinvent the wheel
01:20 < sepp_> you can add your own theme/desktop/icon package, but i don't know how you tell gnome/kde/foo howto use that as default
01:22 < Brian|lfs> does T2 have a tool of making your own packages
01:23 < sepp_> there is no tool, if your package uses make or one of there things all you need to provide is a description and an url
01:24 < sepp_> just fill in some meta-info
01:24 < sepp_> author homepage version license ...
01:26 < sepp_> if there is a configure, makefile or something it will run it and install it and it will make a file list for you
01:26 < Brian|lfs> my friend and I are having disagreements
01:26 < Brian|lfs> he thinks T2 is a wate of time beucase of hte lack of a package manager
01:26 < Brian|lfs> but I feel that if you have everythign you want in the target then why is htat a problem.
01:27 < Brian|lfs> my other point is why would you use another distros packages
01:27 < sepp_> i think the same, i only build what i want (not more) and then i install it
01:27 < Ragnar|away> preferably you wouldn't
01:28 < Brian|lfs> on the other hand it sounds like alot of work to get what I want
01:32 -!- Netsplit kornbluth.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: sepp_, pdinoto_, kic-, Ragnar|away, Brian|lfs, Fatal, mqueiros_, @ChanServ, cyda, emte__, (+5 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
01:33 -!- Netsplit over, joins: dsoul, kic-, Brian|lfs, pdinoto_, sepp_, mqueiros_, emte__, mtr, cyda, Fatal (+1 more)
01:34 < sepp_> if you select minimal-desktop you get a base with gtk/qt/firefox/gimp ...
01:34 < sepp_> not much to think about
01:34 -!- Netsplit over, joins: @ChanServ, TobiX, happycube, Dallur
01:34 < sepp_> it will not take 5 days to figure the rest out (i think)
01:35 < Brian|lfs> does T2 have compiz fusion yet
01:36 < sepp_> there is Compiz 0.5
01:36 < sepp_> if that is the same thing
01:36 < sepp_> no clue :/
01:36 < Brian|lfs> I'm not even sure
01:36 < Brian|lfs> I know the latest fusion is 0.52 but not sure about 0.5
01:38 < sepp_> compiz.org :)
01:38 < Brian|lfs> How about beryl even though it forked back to compiz now?
01:39 < sepp_> yup
01:39 < sepp_> there are packages
01:39 < Brian|lfs> my friend is like compiz is compiz
01:39 < Brian|lfs> its jsut the plugins that make it fusion
01:39 < Brian|lfs> so its jsut an issue of if the plugins have to be the same version or onot
01:40 < sepp_> http://www.t2-project.org/packages/beryl-manager.html
01:40 < sepp_> i do not know that, i use e17 :)
01:40 < Brian|lfs> so you don't think it would tkae me 5 days to figure out the deps and everything compile smotth
01:41 < sepp_> no, if you have an additional question, just ask
01:41 < sepp_> unless you start with an empty package list it wont take 5 days
01:42 < Brian|lfs> I wouldn't do that
01:42 < Brian|lfs> would emerge give me the packages in the right order
01:42 < sepp_> if you include minimal-desktop you already have gtk+ and all things it needs
01:42 < Brian|lfs> or am I going to have to guess to figure the order out
01:43 < sepp_> if you add some other gtk+ app, most probably you are done
01:43 < Brian|lfs> what does minual-desktop have again
01:44 < sepp_> http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/target/generic/pkgsel/50-minimal-desktop.in <- :)
01:44 < Brian|lfs> its in front of me lol
01:44 < Brian|lfs> duh I'm ok
01:45 < sepp_> no full desktop but mplayer and firefox etc
01:46 < Brian|lfs> why isn't xorg in that file
01:46 < Brian|lfs> I'm confused?
01:46 < sepp_> # reuse the minimal-xorg
01:46 < sepp_> include target/generic/pkgsel/10-minimal-xorg.in
01:46 < sepp_> ^- that is why
01:47 < sepp_> it includes the other smaller template
01:47 < Brian|lfs> oh so some targets include other targets
01:47 < sepp_> yup
01:47 < sepp_> you can do the same
01:47 < sepp_> minimal-xorg in fact includes minimal
01:47 < Brian|lfs> it would have to for the base
01:48 < Brian|lfs> so the majority of the gnome deps in this minual-desktop
01:49 < Brian|lfs> I htought here is a shit laod of them I only see a couple deps for gnome
01:49 < Brian|lfs> unless alot of them are part of xorg?
01:49 < Brian|lfs> oh Ya I could jsut look in lefs duh I'm ok
01:49 < sepp_> gtk+ and all its deps are
01:50 < Brian|lfs> thats actually not a bad idea
01:50 < sepp_> there are >200 packages in the gnome2 dir ...
01:51 < Brian|lfs> any reason why they left the mplayer codecs out of mplayer in the minual-desktop
01:51 < Brian|lfs> win32 codecs I mean
01:51 < sepp_> maybe because it works only on x86?
01:51 < sepp_> i don't know
01:51 < Brian|lfs> I'm pretty sure there are 64 bit codecs for msot things
01:51 < sepp_> maybe you are not allowed to redistribute win32 dlls
01:52 < sepp_> only for realvideo
01:52 < Brian|lfs> the default templte has them
01:52 < Brian|lfs> I saw them downlaod last ngiht
01:52 < sepp_> the default has nearly everything
01:56 < Brian|lfs> wonder if I look in the main one if it has all the groups I want if I can jsut copy the grops of packages I want and createmy own template
01:56 < Brian|lfs> or would that be to many packages to deal with/
01:57 < sepp_> you could use that info
01:58 < Brian|lfs> after I have a template how does the ./scripts/Config see it so I can pick it?
01:59 < sepp_> it will if you throw it in the dir where minimal-* is
02:00 < Brian|lfs> I can be smart when I want to be I guess
02:00 < Brian|lfs> lol
02:00 < Brian|lfs> but you where beign smart with doing what you susgested also
02:01 < sepp_> :)
02:02 < Brian|lfs> I've never corss compiled before but if I want to optimize for a core2 and I'm compiling on a operton that would be cross compiling rihgt?
02:02 < sepp_> i am not sure
02:02 < Brian|lfs> so your not sure like me
02:03 < Brian|lfs> I never udnerstood how that works
02:03 < Brian|lfs> beucase if your on one archutecture trying to compile for antoher I would inamge it wouldn't compile to good
02:04 < sepp_> it works unless you have to run the generated binaries to work on some input
02:05 < Brian|lfs> thats all I wanted to know lol
02:05 < sepp_> like a python interpreter compiling files to bytecode
02:05 < Brian|lfs> so its jsut forceing the compiler to compile for somethign different
02:05 < sepp_> yup
04:06 < Brian|lfs> wow
04:06 < Brian|lfs> I've been gone alkl the tiem and no one has talked
04:14 < sepp_> meep
04:14 < sepp_> :)
04:20 < Brian|lfs> am I looking in the wrong temp I don't see the groups for the rest of the packages?
04:21 < Brian|lfs> http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/target/generic/pkgsel/00-minimal.in
04:21 < Brian|lfs> I thought if you do that template everything builds
04:22 < sepp_> pkgsel's support bash wildcards like 'O *' build nothing or 'X *' everything
04:23 < sepp_> that is why there is a 'O *' in 00-min at the beginning
04:24 < Brian|lfs> so how does it know to build every package known to man in that temp
04:24 < Brian|lfs> or am I missing somehting
04:25 < Brian|lfs> I don't gnome or kde or anything in that template
04:25 < sepp_> 00-minimal is not the dafault
04:26 < Brian|lfs> oh whats the default template
04:28 < sepp_> default is everything that is not disabled (marked with an O in the package .desc-ription)
04:29 < sepp_> but it is not a static file
04:29 < Brian|lfs> is that viewable on the ftp
04:30 < Brian|lfs> oh
04:30 < Brian|lfs> is there a way to view it?
04:31 < sepp_> you can checkout the source tree
04:31 < Brian|lfs> oh I was trying to see if its grouped by deps or not
04:31 < sepp_> grep "\[P\] X" package/*/*/*.desc|cut -d'/' -f 3
04:32 < Brian|lfs> becuase if its group by deps it would make my life easier
04:32 < sepp_> ^- that will display the long list ...
04:34 < Brian|lfs> how can that many packages compile with no problems?
04:35 < Ragnar|away> not all do
04:36 < CIA-8> sebastian * r25934 /trunk/package/multimedia/openlibraries/compile.patch: * fixed openlibraries
04:40 < sepp_> would be nice if someone would have regular stats
04:40 < sepp_> :)
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04:57 -!- Ragnar|away is now known as Ragnarin
05:03 < sepp__> no longer away? :p
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08:40 < rxr> re
08:58 [Users #t2]
08:58 [@ChanServ ] [ Dallur] [ happycube] [ netson99] [ sepp ]
08:58 [ Brian|lfs] [ dsoul ] [ kic- ] [ pdinoto_] [ TobiX ]
08:58 [ CIA-8 ] [ emte__] [ mqueiros_] [ Ragnarin] [ valentin]
08:58 [ cyda ] [ Fatal ] [ mtr ] [ rxr ]
08:58 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 19 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal]
09:19 -!- Ragnarin is now known as Ragnar|away
09:45 < CIA-8> susan * r25935 /trunk/package/gnome2/tomboy/tomboy.desc: * updated tomboy (0.7.5 -> 0.7.6)
09:45 < CIA-8> susan * r25936 /trunk/package/editors/tea/tea.desc: * updated tea (17.2.0 -> 17.2.2)
09:53 -!- write_erase [n=olivier@81.80.156.36] has joined #t2
11:02 < CIA-8> susan * r25937 /trunk/package/editors/texmacs/texmacs.desc: * updated texmacs (1.0.6.9 -> 1.0.6.11)
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13:45 < sepp> moin :)
14:17 -!- netson99 [n=netson99@202.153.241.206] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:23 < itsu> moint
14:23 < itsu> ;-)
14:31 < rxr> re
15:03 < CIA-8> susan * r25938 /trunk/package/x11/fvwm/fvwm.desc: * updated fvwm (2.5.21 -> 2.5.23)
15:18 -!- itsu [n=user@i577B973C.versanet.de] has left #t2 []
15:21 < CIA-8> rene * r25939 /trunk/package/network/bacula/bacula.desc: * updated bacula (2.0.3 -> 2.2.2)
15:33 < CIA-8> rene * r25940 /trunk/package/develop/libtasn1/libtasn1.desc: * updated libtasn1 (1.0 -> 1.1)
15:35 < CIA-8> rene * r25941 /trunk/package/python/itools/itools.desc: * updated itools (0.16.7 -> 0.16.8)
15:35 < CIA-8> rene * r25942 /trunk/package/games/freedroid_rpg/freedroid_rpg.desc: * updated freedroid_rpg (0.10.2 -> 0.10.3)
15:58 < cyda> moin
16:03 < sepp> moin cyda
16:56 < rxr> moin moin
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20:19 -!- LMJ_p [n=LMJ@laf31-2-82-224-107-105.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #t2
20:20 < LMJ_p> hi
20:21 -!- yokoy [n=yokoy@e178072148.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #t2
20:22 < LMJ_p> I just pluged a new Nvidia 8600 card which is not supported by old nvidia drivers like 97xx, I have to update to 100.x How I can do cleanly that with t2 ?*
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20:29 < LMJ_p> If I need to install nvidia drivers, I need the source of the kernel I'm running, I wonder how to get them
20:47 -!- DeeKey [n=denis@84-50-23-207-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has joined #t2
20:48 < rxr> we have a nvidia package you want to use it .-)
20:48 -!- itsu [n=user@i577BAD03.versanet.de] has joined #t2
20:48 < DeeKey> Hello!
20:48 < LMJ_p> hi
20:48 < rxr> if you want the sources (really you rather do not want to) you can enable leaving the lingering sources around in /usr/src/linux-* in the config menu
20:48 < rxr> but for most joy just enable the nvidia package and build your kernelk
20:48 < rxr> this way you get the matching nvidia module alway
20:49 < LMJ_p> emerged the fresh kernel 2.6.22.5
20:49 < LMJ_p> I used stone to update menu.lst
20:49 < LMJ_p> i'm trying to boot : BIOS info, then i can see grub menu during 1sec and then, online the blinking cursor at the top
20:49 < LMJ_p> arg, wtf
20:50 < LMJ_p> only*
20:50 < LMJ_p> I have the package nvidia available already, but the T2 nvidia package is not up to date
20:53 < LMJ_p> fuck, what the hell
20:55 < sepp> ./scripts/Update-Pkg nvidia 100.14.11
20:55 < sepp> ./scripts/Emerge-Pkg -cfg ... linux26
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21:01 < rxr> LMJ_p: if your boot cripples your VGA output, then remove the nvidia / riva *.ko modules in /lib/modules*
21:01 < rxr> the nvidiafb.ko (or what it was named) also messes up our new Mac Pro on boot
21:01 < rxr> LMJ_p: I also removed it locally, but probably it's a good idea to list those two modules as "disable_broken" on x86/x86-64
21:02 < rxr> I know some PowerBooks require it for functional graphic at all and it hopefully still works with those older chips
21:02 < rxr> so - I really^3 have to get lunch, now
21:02 < rxr> oh and btw, we'll be out of office next week for work abroad, ...
21:02 < rxr> presense here will be rare and time-shifted
21:02 < rxr> cu then
21:04 < DeeKey> cu rxr
21:06 < LMJ_p> cu rxr
21:06 < LMJ_p> hello sepp
21:10 < LMJ_p> great, my pc boot : BIOS, grub menu during 1 sec, then a blinking cursor and that's all
21:10 < LMJ_p> My default grub timeout is 8sec
21:10 < LMJ_p> what's happeningggggggg
21:11 < CIA-8> rene * r25943 /trunk/package/base/libelf/libelf.desc: * updated libelf (0.8.9 -> 0.8.10)
21:15 < CIA-8> rene * r25944 /trunk/package/network/apache/apache.desc: * updated apache (2.2.4 -> 2.2.6)
21:15 < CIA-8> rene * r25945 /trunk/package/gnome2/termit/termit.desc: * updated termit (1.0.1 -> 1.0.2)
21:15 < CIA-8> rene * r25946 /trunk/package/base/pcre/pcre.desc: * updated pcre (7.2 -> 7.3)
21:18 < LMJ_p> great, now, it goes through the BIOS, come to the grub menu during half a second and then, blinking cursors and reboot
21:18 < LMJ_p> what the *************
21:19 < LMJ_p> echap or arrows do nothing
21:24 < sepp> ?
21:32 < LMJ_p> ¿
21:32 < LMJ_p> ok, my main PC is down :-/
21:35 < LMJ_p> gtg
21:36 < LMJ_p> CU tomorrow
21:48 < sepp> c u
22:04 -!- itsu [n=user@i577BAD03.versanet.de] has left #t2 []
22:53 < yokoy> hi,
22:54 < yokoy> I just saw that autoconf-2.61 is the corrent version since nearly one year
22:54 < yokoy> is there a reason that t2 still use 2.59?
22:57 -!- sepp [n=sepp@Z51cf.z.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
--- Log closed Sat Sep 08 00:00:10 2007