--- Log opened Wed Aug 17 00:00:00 2005
00:15 < CIA-9> amery * r11073 /branches/2.1/package/www/nvu/nvu.desc: * merged 9963 from trunk: updated nvu (0.90 -> 1.0)
00:18 < valentin> rxr: still awake ?
00:21 < CIA-9> amery * r11074 /trunk/package/gnome2/gnumeric/gnumeric.desc: * updated gnumeric (1.5.2 -> 1.5.3)
00:27 < CIA-9> amery * r11075 /trunk/package/security/rssh/rssh.desc: * updated rssh (2.2.2 -> 2.2.3)
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01:10 < sparc-kly|U5> hi all
01:18 -!- keinek [n=keinek@201.254.13.72] has joined #t2
01:18 < keinek> hi
01:22 < sparc-kly|U5> hi
01:53 < CIA-9> amery * r11076 /branches/2.1/package/mail/thunderbird/thunderbird.desc: * merged 10487 from trunk: updated thunderbird (1.0.2 -> 1.0.6)
01:56 < CIA-9> amery * r11077 /branches/2.1/package/www/mozilla/mozilla.desc: * merged 10548,10887 from trunk: updated mozilla (1.7.8 -> 1.7.11)
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04:29 < CIA-9> amery * r11078 /branches/2.1/package/editors/emacs/emacs.desc: * merged 11046 from trunk: updated emacs (21.4 -> 21.4a)
04:38 < CIA-9> amery * r11079 /branches/2.1/package/perl/perl-libxml/perl-libxml.conf: * merged 10816 from trunk: added -L/lib64 and -L/usr/lib64 to perl-libxml MakeMaker LIBS for x86_64
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04:56 < CIA-9> amery * r11080 /trunk/package/gnome2/gst-plugins/gst-plugins.desc: * updated gst-plugins (0.8.9 -> 0.8.10)
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05:25 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | 2.1.0-rc2 RELEASED | The next generation of System Development Environments (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | BT http://torrent.t2-project.org/
05:25 -!- Topic set by vilkacis [] [Tue Aug 9 23:45:30 2005]
05:25 [Users #t2]
05:25 [@vilkacis ] [ CIA-9] [ keinek] [ nzg ] [ SerWou ] [ sparc-kly|U5]
05:25 [ _Lewellyn] [ dsoul] [ mnemoc] [ rxr ] [ Shingo-- ] [ valentin ]
05:25 [ _Ragnar_ ] [ jsaw_] [ mtr ] [ rxr_] [ sparc-kly]
05:25 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
05:25 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
05:25 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 11 secs
05:33 < CIA-9> amery * r11081 /branches/2.1/package/gnome2/libgnomeui/libgnomeui.desc: * merged 10518 from trunk: updated libgnomeui (2.10.0 -> 2.10.1)
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05:58 < minto> morning
06:00 < mnemoc> moin minto
06:00 < minto> hi mnemoc
06:00 < minto> I 'll be leaving fro work soon. just checking mail
06:01 < minto> :( It is not even 6 o'clock
06:01 < mnemoc> are you going to move your family closer to your new work?
06:02 < minto> hopefully :)
06:03 < minto> I found something only 13 Km from my work :)
06:03 < mnemoc> and?
06:04 < minto> It is a summer house and I consider buying it. But first I need to find out if I can get a mortgage on it.
06:04 < minto> I gotta go now, cu later
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06:19 < CIA-9> amery * r11082 /trunk/target/mnemosyne/mnemosyne.pl: * improved mnemosyne's mnemosyne.pl to render rules file for ASK,ALL and half CHOIICE (WIP)
06:23 < mnemoc> valentin: hi, can you build a 2.1-rc2 ISO for ppc? minimal is enough :) ... or desktop if it's posible. the last ppc iso available is beta3 which is pre-pkgprefix
06:25 < mnemoc> valentin: please :)
06:29 < CIA-9> amery * r11083 /branches/2.1/package/gnome2/balsa/balsa.desc: * merged 10056 from trunk: updated balsa (2.2.6 -> 2.3.4) - 2.2.6 didn't build with gcc34
06:32 < CIA-9> amery * r11084 /branches/2.1/package/gnome2/ (gst-plugins/gst-plugins.desc gstreamer/gstreamer.desc):
06:32 < CIA-9> * merged 9362 from trunk: updated gstreamer (0.8.9 -> 0.8.10)
06:32 < CIA-9> * merged 9362,11080 from trunk: updated gst-plugins (0.8.8 -> 0.8.10)
06:35 < CIA-9> amery * r11085 /branches/2.1/package/network/openvpn/openvpn.desc: * merged 11064,11069 from trunk: updated openvpn (2.0 -> 2.0.1)
06:46 < CIA-9> amery * r11086 /trunk/package/network/bittorrent/bittorrent.desc: * updated bittorrent (4.1.3 -> 4.1.4)
06:48 < CIA-9> amery * r11087 /branches/2.1/package/network/bittorrent/bittorrent.desc: * updated bittorrent (4.0.2 -> 4.0.3) - (close #44)
06:59 < Shingo--> mnemoc: may I help you?
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07:02 < Shingo--> mnemoc: did you see my message? may help you with build.
07:02 < Shingo--> may I help you. :)
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08:17 < rxr_> re
08:18 -!- You're now known as rxr
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08:29 < Shingo--> rxr: what really means re?
08:34 -!- sparc-kl1 [n=mubex@64.237.252.122] has joined #t2
08:35 < rxr> s.th. like "returned" or simillar ,-)
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08:38 < Shingo--> :) thks
08:38 < Shingo--> rxr: are you gnome user?
08:39 < rxr> Shingo--: well - not really - but my girlfriend is.
08:39 < rxr> Shingo--: do you have some question ?
08:41 < Shingo--> well, I have a lot the programs with crash, like gnome-background-properties.
08:41 < Shingo--> I think was, my old profile but a have created new profile a same problems.
08:41 < Shingo--> I want a clue to discover the problem.
08:42 < rxr> ouhm
08:42 < rxr> what do you use - T2? 2.1 or trunk ?
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08:43 < rxr> hi _Lewellyn
08:43 [Users #t2]
08:43 [@vilkacis ] [ CIA-9] [ keinek_] [ nzg ] [ Shingo-- ] [ sparc-kly|U5]
08:43 [ _Lewellyn] [ dsoul] [ menomc ] [ rxr ] [ sparc-kl1] [ valentin ]
08:43 [ _Ragnar_ ] [ jsaw_] [ mtr ] [ SerWou] [ sparc-kly]
08:43 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 17 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 16 normal]
08:43 < Shingo--> well, I have installed 2.1 minimal. from ISO CD. the now is mixed. but the problem always happens
08:45 < rxr> well - susan is using xfce right now on her iBook - because the gnome got a bit unusable from the in-system update from 2.6 over 2.8 to 2.10
08:45 < Shingo--> I think it's a genric problem.
08:45 < Shingo--> the program vazaar work in gentoo. I have merged with my tree and the program crash in use. when I'll see any information.
08:45 < rxr> currentl the iBook is building 2.1 and should finish soon - so she can tell more ...
08:45 < rxr> (if there is s.th. left to fix)
08:46 < Shingo--> ok, if she have any clue. tell me please.
08:54 < Shingo--> there's pratical way to see description of package uninstalled?
08:55 < rxr> you mean the .desc file ?
08:55 < Shingo--> rxr: what time is in berlin? you work in "normal" hour?
08:55 < Shingo--> yeah .desc
08:55 < rxr> it is 08:55 here
08:56 < Shingo--> 3:55 here. I'm "re" 00:00.
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08:58 < rxr> ,-)
08:58 < Shingo--> it's appers a dummy question, but a what got in mind when defined the file? a grep, it's a anwser?
08:59 < rxr> designing the .desc files layout ?
09:02 < Shingo--> it's about question before, what is the [better|pratical|quick] way to see a description of package?
09:02 < rxr> well - I usually look into the file manually - cat, vi, ...
09:02 < rxr> when working with them ...
09:02 < rxr> vim has a syntax highligher for those ...
09:06 < Shingo--> ok, I don't know why but a have problem with vi. I had used vi sometime before. in T2 the key what I known it, don't works. like simple [insert]. I change my var EDITOR to mcedit, but mcedit has problems with keys running in X terminal but not in pure terminal.
09:06 < rxr> Shingo--: our vim has no big config file - thus maybe you experience problems with the cursor keys?
09:06 < rxr> simle i and typign text should work ...
09:07 < Shingo--> let's me see.
09:12 < Shingo--> when I enter in edit mode the cursor keys get crazy characters in document. :(
09:12 < Shingo--> when I [view|visual] 09:19 < Shingo--> rxr: sorry if this is write in other place. but may I send my merge in one email to ML?
09:19 < Shingo--> it's ok?
09:19 < rxr> what kind of merge ?
09:19 < Shingo--> there's 4 new packages.
09:20 < Shingo--> is wrong to say merge in this case?
09:20 < rxr> ah - yes - send them to the list ,-)
09:20 < Shingo--> in one email?
09:20 < rxr> merge usually refers to others work beeing integrated
09:20 -!- bfg [n=blacky@chello080109010143.16.14.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #t2
09:20 < rxr> either e.g. merging stuff from trunk to a stable version like 2.1 or merging getoo rock, ... code in ...
09:21 < rxr> Shingo--: we are not pedantic about the patch format
09:21 < rxr> one mail / multiple mails ... - we do not care as long as one can extract them out of the mali in some way ...
09:22 < Shingo--> rxr cool. I like you. :)
09:23 < Shingo--> but I'm not gay. for register this chat ok. :)
09:28 < _Ragnar_> *rofl*
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09:30 < morfoh> moin
09:32 < rxr> moin morfoh !
09:34 < morfoh> moin rxr ... how are you ?
09:34 < rxr> good - finally back in berlin ...
09:35 < morfoh> rxr: me too! I arrived yesterday evening, but unfortunately with a heavy cold :(
09:36 < rxr> outsch
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09:37 < morfoh> yep ... ouch is the tight desc
09:37 < morfoh> right
09:39 < morfoh> rxr: did I missed sth. important ?
09:40 < rxr> I think no
09:40 < rxr> except mnemoc has got some lang ting runnig with plone
09:41 < rxr> http://www3.conosurseguros.cl/t2
09:41 < morfoh> rxr: oh :)
09:41 < rxr> I think it was
09:41 < morfoh> rxr: thanks ... that sounds good anyway :)
09:44 < rxr> what are your plans with this MIPS router board ?
09:44 < rxr> order it some time soon ?
10:01 < morfoh> rxr: yep! I think I will order one soon, because there is a project on the horizon (november) where I would need a bigger amount of them and I want to evaluate it as soon as possible
10:04 < rxr> ic - /me interested as well
10:05 < morfoh> rxr: does it means that you want to order one too ?
10:07 * morfoh is taking shower now ... bbl
10:07 < rxr> you said we only need one for now ... ,-)
10:07 < rxr> I just meant I would like to take a look on it with you as well ... ,-)
10:08 < rxr> btw. I consider selling my iBook (as long as hit has a good margin on ebay) and buy a amd64 laptop ...
10:08 < morfoh> rxr: ah! ok! I just thought you changed your mind ;)
10:08 < rxr> MSI msi megabook s270
10:08 < morfoh> rxr: and of course you can take a look on the small beast ;)
10:09 < morfoh> rxr: oh! do you have a link for the the AMD64 notebook ?
10:09 < rxr> http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=S270
10:09 < rxr> only 3.5h on bateries though ...
10:09 < morfoh> rxr: that
10:10 < rxr> but 1.9 kg and such ...
10:10 < morfoh> 's ok for an AMD64
10:10 < rxr> maybe one can extend it under linux with massive under-clocking ,-)
10:10 < morfoh> rxr: hehe :)
10:12 < morfoh> 12,1" display with 16:10 sounds nice :)
10:14 < morfoh> rxr: but unfortunately just a touchpad. I like the trackpoint on my IBM
10:15 < morfoh> rxr: but anyway it's not that showstopper
10:15 < morfoh> rxr: did you found an distributor in germany yet ?
10:18 < rxr> mix computer was cheapest I think
10:18 < rxr> 1029 EUR or so
10:55 < morfoh> rxr: oh! this sounds quite nice
11:10 < valentin> moin
11:11 < rxr> hi valentin
11:11 < rxr> i just started callin you
11:13 < morfoh> moin moin valentin ... hope papa and his "girlies" are quite well :)
11:44 < CIA-9> martin * r11088 /trunk/package/kde/amarok/amarok.desc: * updated amarok (1.2.x -> 1.3)
13:16 < Shingo--> bed cu
13:17 < morfoh> cu Shingo-- sleep well
13:21 < rxr> cu Shingo--
13:21 < rxr> hm - CIA-9 ?
13:28 < rxr> 1779
13:28 < rxr> ^- packages in tree
13:29 < rxr> 1785 even !
13:31 < morfoh> :)
13:50 < rxr> yep
13:52 < rxr> BusyBox 1.01
13:55 < rxr> This light hearted review is a look at how a girl who uses Windows (and is non-technical) deals with using Fedora Linux instead. In fact, she likes it so much, she uses it all the time now. If she can use Fedora Linux, anyone can.
13:55 < rxr> http://linux-noob.com/review/fedora/fcr3/
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16:02 < rxr> imagemagick crap is slow like hell ...
17:10 < rxr> http://www.greyc.ensicaen.fr/~dtschump/greycstoration/
17:10 < rxr> http://cimg.sourceforge.net/
17:45 < menomc> moin
17:50 < morfoh> moin menomc <-- hehe
17:50 < menomc> :p
17:50 < morfoh> mnemoc: perhaps you should change you nick to mnemonkey :)
17:51 < menomc> morfoh: http://www3.conosurseguros.cl/t2/Members/amery
17:51 < menomc> morfoh: how was the 'holiday'?
17:56 < morfoh> menomc: yep ... rxr told me about you success regarding plone's multilang support :)
17:56 < menomc> morfoh: it was easy with linguaplone 0.8 released yesterday :)
17:56 < morfoh> menomc: btw, holiday isn't the right word I think
17:56 < morfoh> menomc: it was more stress than everything else
17:56 < menomc> it was quoted :p
17:57 < menomc> tell me more
17:57 < morfoh> menomc: and I came back with a bad cold
17:57 < menomc> :(
17:57 < morfoh> menomc: I was driving about 3000km in a quite short time, and had not much sleep
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18:16 < rxr> re
18:16 < menomc> re rxr
18:17 < menomc> rxr: 2.0.1 was released due to DoS problems
18:17 < menomc> rxr: err... +openvpn
18:23 < rxr> including the lzo adaption ?
18:23 * rxr shortly off again to grab fresh food
18:23 < rxr> btw. I get a iMac G5 for nearly 14 days ...
18:23 < rxr> (due to OS X driver fixing=
18:23 < rxr> ) even
18:23 < menomc> rxr: lzo{1,2} is also included on 2.0.1
18:23 < rxr> maybe I have some seconds to build a 64bit PPC T2 build ... ,-)
18:24 < menomc> rxr: 2.1? :D
18:24 < rxr> menomc: great
18:24 < rxr> menomc: can you untypo your nick ? ,_)
18:24 -!- menomc is now known as mnemoc
18:24 < rxr> thanks ,-)
18:24 < mnemoc> :)
18:24 < rxr> so - /me -> fresh food ,-)
18:24 < mnemoc> cu
18:24 < rxr> http://svn.exactcode.de/big.png
18:24 < rxr> .-)
18:26 < rxr> haha: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/62914
18:26 < rxr> ^- Apples recent security update disables 64-bit applications
18:26 < mnemoc> o_O
18:28 < rxr> mnemoc: and I also have to fight this damn USB stack of 10.4 to not random f*ck up with our scanner driver ...
18:28 < rxr> OS X is just a big OS wanna-be ...
18:28 < rxr> ... nothing you can base your business on - though slightly better than Windows ....
18:28 < rxr> so - but now food ,-)
18:29 < mnemoc> :)
18:44 -!- bfg [n=bfg@chello080109010143.16.14.univie.teleweb.at] has joined #t2
18:44 < bfg> Hi
18:45 < mnemoc> hi bfg
18:53 < rxr> re
18:57 < bfg> rxr: as you know, i'm currently testing a build with --as-needed enabled. it seems, that during compile time are very little problems. (only with bdb and -lpthread with some other packages and some gnome14 packages which have problems during configure).
18:58 < bfg> do you know any problems during run time with --as-needed enabled?
19:00 < mnemoc> iirc this is not the first time someone tries --as-needed massively
19:00 < bfg> and another question: is this flag still experimental? i realized some strange behavior (especially with gnome14 packages)
19:02 < bfg> a very small conftest.c package linked against libgmodule.so and also uses a function from this library, but there was no reference in the compiled binary to libgmodule
19:03 < _Ragnar_> what does --as-needed actually do?
19:05 < bfg> afaik it lists only those libraries as dependencies which are really needed in the binary (visible with ldd) and not all libraries which are listed with -l options on the command line
19:05 < _Ragnar_> that sounds like a nice option to have
19:05 < bfg> it should speed up startup time of programs
19:05 < _Ragnar_> what about binaries that later dlopen their own modules tho?
19:09 < bfg> mmhh.. i'm not sure, but i think if you dlopen a module it s not necessary to list it as dependency, because the binary should be able to handle manual dependencies itself
19:11 < rxr> re
19:11 < rxr> bfg: yes - you will get some of this problems - like missing indirect libraries - I have no time to work on it - but I encourage you to fix them if you like to
19:11 < rxr> however I'm not sure if --as-needed speeds the build or runtime up
19:12 < rxr> since at runtime all the libraries will be loaded anyway - due to the real dependencies in some low-level libraries
19:12 < rxr> maybe someone has done some sophisticated benchmark showing speedups - but tiny tests on my side have not shown a speedup ...
19:12 < _Ragnar_> bfg: would be nice to write a small script that compares the .log files from a build with --as-needed with a build without
19:13 < bfg> rxr: for build time i'm doing it currently, but i'm curious, wheter all works at runtime
19:14 < bfg> --as-needed should really speed up loading at runtime. (and maybe also reducing build-time), because you can give more than needed -l options on the cmd line (which i'm sure many automated build skripts do)
19:15 < bfg> _Ragnar_: which differences do you expect?
19:15 < _Ragnar_> error messages ;)
19:15 < bfg> :)
19:16 < _Ragnar_> and maybe also compare how much --as-needed actually strips from the dependencies ... if it's just a common lib like libz or sth it probably won't add that much
19:16 < _Ragnar_> s/add/subtract (from load time)/
19:18 < rxr> _Ragnar_: I tested - it strips a lot
19:18 < rxr> all the indirect base libraries are missing then
19:18 < rxr> e.g. aspell - when kde apps use kdespell s.th. ...
19:18 < rxr> but at runtime all of them get loaded anyway - thru the indirect deps of libkspell.so... then ...
19:19 < _Ragnar_> ah ok
19:19 < _Ragnar_> yea that's what I meant
19:19 < rxr> so I wonder if it will speed up runtime at all - my test did not showed a measuarable difference ...
19:20 < rxr> http://www.toughbook-europe.com/DEU/notebook_cf-t2.aspx
19:20 < rxr> ^- t2 laptop anyone ?
19:21 < mnemoc> o.o
19:22 < _Ragnar_> probably sucks at Build-Target :)
19:23 < mnemoc> but you can hit it at will when something crashes :)
19:24 < mnemoc> good for XP i guess
19:25 < _Ragnar_> *lol* yea
19:32 < bfg> to speedup as-needed: at runtime the speedup should be achieved by ld because it has less dependant libraries to check (and maybe load). but i'm sure it is not too much
19:35 < rxr> mnemoc: do you process the list mails today ?
19:35 < rxr> mnemoc: but if you lack time I can as well ... - though I do too ,-)
19:37 < mnemoc> if you can, i prefer you do it. i'm having lot of fun doing merges
19:37 < mnemoc> i want to finishing syncing gnome and kde today
19:37 < mnemoc> finish*
19:38 < rxr> Latest OS X Update Breaks 64-bit Support
19:39 < rxr> http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1236.
19:39 < _Ragnar_> O_O
19:40 < rxr> just to post the englihs version after I posted the german one an hour ago ...
19:41 < mnemoc> i thought that was an intended security mesure
19:45 < mnemoc> rxr: can you set 2.1-stable as a valid version on mirror.cgi?
19:45 < mnemoc> brb
19:48 < bfg> bye, good evening
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20:15 < rxr> mnemoc: done
20:39 < Shingo--> re. :)
20:49 -!- minto [n=chatzill@82-217-66-7.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #t2
20:49 < minto> moin
21:02 < rxr> moin moint
21:02 < rxr> minto even ,-)
21:02 < minto> hi rxr :)
21:04 -!- madtux [n=mike@65.182.14.29] has joined #t2
21:05 < rxr> hey madtux !!!
21:05 < madtux> hi rxr
21:05 < minto> hi madtux :)
21:08 < madtux> Lord Minto
21:09 < minto> where is morfoh? I told him we would kick ass :D
21:09 < madtux> hehe
21:09 < minto> Netherlands vs Germany 1:0 within 3 minutes :D
21:19 < minto> He guys no need to be shy, I just wanted to tease morfoh. I am not even watching the game.
21:24 < rxr> cu in the morning - n8 all
21:31 < minto> sleep well rxr
21:40 < sparc-kly> rxr you planned release ppc isos ? in 2.1.0-r2?
21:58 < minto> I am off to bed too, sleep well guys
21:58 -!- minto [n=chatzill@82-217-66-7.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.6/20050717]"]
22:44 -!- madtux [n=mike@65.182.14.29] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:01 -!- keinek [n=keinek@201.254.12.227] has joined #t2
23:01 < keinek> hi
23:12 < mnemoc> re
23:24 -!- sparc-kly|U5 [n=mubex@66-50-123-218.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:59 < mnemoc> jsaw_: i just sent a pre-proposal for foo-%, i hope you like it
--- Log closed Thu Aug 18 00:00:00 2005