T2 IRC Log: 2005-01-28
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Fri Jan 28 00:00:46 2005
02:05 -!- sparcky [~mubex@65-23-206-237.prtc.net] has joined #t2
02:07 -!- sparc-kly [~mubex@65-23-206-237.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:28 -!- ideal [~idealm@211.100.227.107] has joined #t2
02:30 -!- sparc-kly [~mubex@65-23-206-237.prtc.net] has joined #t2
02:30 -!- sparcky [~mubex@65-23-206-237.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:48 < Postal> Hey all
02:49 < _Ragnar_> hi
04:37 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.27.25] has joined #t2
04:38 < _Ragnar_> mnemoc!:)
04:43 < Postal> Hey mnemoc
04:43 < _Ragnar_> bbl, heading off
04:43 < Postal> cr _Ragnar_
04:44 < Postal> cu*
04:49 -!- mnemoc_ [~amery@200.75.27.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:03 -!- Postal is now known as Postal|Away
05:03 < Postal|Away> NICK Postal|Away
08:22 -!- madtux [~mike@196.40.44.28] has joined #t2
08:22 < madtux> re
08:22 < rxr> moin
08:22 < madtux> hi rxr...
08:22 < madtux> good mourning to you
08:22 < rxr> moin madtux !
08:25 < rxr> jsaw: you have an intanium box over there=
08:25 < madtux> intanium... yum
08:36 < rxr> !> /bin/sh: line 1: 29805 Segmentation fault (core dumped) ./conf ..
08:36 < rxr> arrrrgh
08:36 < madtux> du'h
08:36 < rxr> huh?
08:36 < rxr> core: ELF 64-bit MSB core file, SPARC V9, version 1 (SYSV), SVR4-style, SVR4-style, from '-gnu --host=spa'
08:37 < rxr> -gnu --host=spa ?
08:37 < madtux> mmh!?
08:37 < rxr> nice program ...
08:37 < rxr> madtux: how comes you are still awake?
08:38 < madtux> rxr: the fact that you nearly never see me online doesn't mean that i go to bed early.. i normaly stay up till 3 or 4 am
08:38 < rxr> ic
08:38 < rxr> nice to see you around here ;-)
08:38 < madtux> right now i'm just trying to finish work to have time again for t2
08:38 < madtux> its nice to be here
08:43 < rxr> package/./contrib/rtai/parse-config-9: line 23: [: =: unary operator expected
08:56 -!- madtux [~mike@196.40.44.28] has quit ["leaving"]
09:08 < rxr> cu
09:17 -!- rxr_ [~rene@213.54.206.111] has joined #t2
09:17 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | 2.1.0-beta2 RELEASED | The next generation of System Development Enviroments (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | CIA, don't ever leave us again!
09:17 -!- Topic set by mnemoc [] [Wed Jan 12 03:04:43 2005]
09:17 [Users #t2]
09:17 [ _Ragnar_] [ ideal ] [ nzg ] [ rxr ] [ valentin]
09:17 [ CIA-10 ] [ jsaw ] [ Postal|Away] [ rxr_ ]
09:17 [ daja77 ] [ mnemoc] [ praenti ] [ sparc-kly]
09:17 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
09:17 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
09:17 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
09:17 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 10 secs
09:33 -!- rxr [~rene@213.54.212.233] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:49 < rxr_> re
09:49 -!- You're now known as rxr
11:22 < rxr> so - me off to get to exam about "brain dumped" 8051 µC details ...
11:22 < rxr> like which bit in why special function register ...
11:22 < rxr> stuff a computer scientist _must_ know off hand ...
11:32 < CIA-10> martin * r5828 /trunk/package/network/centericq/centericq.desc: * updated centericq (4.14.0)
12:34 < rxr> ,-)
12:34 < rxr> hi
15:05 -!- ideal [~idealm@211.100.227.107] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:31 -!- mipe [~mipe@dsl10040.japo.fi] has joined #t2
15:33 < rxr> re
15:42 < jsaw> rxr: have you looked at the homepage (mail from Oana asking for commercial distro)?
15:51 < rxr> which homepage ?
15:55 < rxr> http://www.baum.ro/ ?
15:57 -!- ooo [~o@dsl-olugw3p33.dial.inet.fi] has joined #t2
15:57 < ooo> rxr: any success on hacking the iMac power supply (ac+/ac-)
15:57 < ooo> ?
15:58 < rxr> ?
15:58 < rxr> why do you ask ?
15:58 < ooo> because i have the same problem.
15:58 < rxr> .oO
15:59 < rxr> well - in fact that iMac is still at my parents ...
15:59 < ooo> google turned up the irc-log of this channel from 2004-12-30
15:59 < jsaw> rxr: respective baum.de
15:59 < rxr> my farther continued to analyze it and got the main board working on a ATX power supply ...
15:59 < ooo> and i haven't googled up any better soluton
16:00 < rxr> so the analog video board is defenitly defective ...
16:00 < ooo> i have a working analog board too, but i have no means to analyze the supply.
16:00 < rxr> since I was only interested in the powerpc board anyway and not in the iMac CRT I told him to prepare the board to be built into a old CD Player (19" hifi) case
16:01 < ooo> i gathered a few imacs with defective analog boards and i tested the logic boards (those work ok).
16:01 < rxr> unfortunatly he told me yesterday that he destroyed it with wile departing and meassuring ... :-(((
16:01 < ooo> ok, i think i have to do the atx way then.
16:01 < rxr> he has not found the defective part of the power supply ...
16:02 < ooo> i'll get 4 more imacs next month, 2 rev a/b/c/d and 2 rev e
16:03 < rxr> ;-)
16:03 < rxr> for free or cheap or so ?
16:03 < ooo> for free.
16:03 < rxr> cool - lucky you ..
16:03 < ooo> i have now 1 working rev e, 1 1Ghz G4, 1 faulty rev e and 1 faulty rev b.
16:04 < rxr> and for all the logic board does work ?
16:04 < ooo> the g4 is the only one i have paid for (as new, march 2003 when it was announced)
16:04 < ooo> all logic boards work.
16:05 < rxr> ;-)
16:06 < rxr> are you an electrican or so ?
16:06 < ooo> and i have no desire for the crt, but atx-powersupplies are big,ugly and noisy.
16:06 < ooo> nope, i'm just a coder with some basic understanding of electronics.
16:06 < ooo> very basic :)
16:07 < ooo> i have been thinking that maybe some tv-repairman could fix the high-voltage board.
16:08 < ooo> because i have no clue how to repair/analyze high voltage components.
16:11 < ooo> i'll recycle ano of the imac cases a cat toilet :)
16:12 < ooo> s/ano/one
16:16 < rxr> hehe
16:16 < rxr> yeah
16:16 < rxr> no need for ugly atx supplies ..
16:17 < rxr> go for some industrical low-noise ones ... that just deliver the voltages you need ...
16:17 < ooo> yeah, but i'd be cool to figure out what the ac+/ac- -current should be.
16:18 < ooo> as the down-converter is already a nice transformer but its input voltage is unknown.. :(
16:20 < rxr> ah - ok that is what you meant ... ,-)
16:20 < rxr> you do not have a lot of equipment there, hm?
16:21 < ooo> nope, just a multimeter.
16:21 < rxr> you could inject the AC current from some regulator and increase it until the correct voltage are on the output pins ...
16:21 < ooo> and it's acting erratically when trying to measure the ac-pins.
16:21 < rxr> yes - as jsaw pointed out due to the switched (hacked) voltage ...
16:21 < rxr> I guess it is about 20V
16:22 < rxr> maybe try to inject 12V or 14V first and measure the voltage on the output pins ...
16:22 < ooo> but it's just 4 pins going thru the logic board, do you think it could be as low as 20V?
16:23 < rxr> yes, I think so ...
16:23 < ooo> as the downconverter is supplying the hd, cdcom, mobo and usb/firewire too.
16:24 < ooo> at 20V it would be 4A or so then?
16:24 < rxr> they would not route s.th. higher over the whole logic board ... and they would not need some main power supply if they route the high voltate over the board
16:24 < rxr> I think you can not destroy s.th. with a too low voltage - just try it and see what the outcome is ...
16:25 < rxr> without the logic board connected ...
16:25 < ooo> ak, AC or DC -power?
16:25 < rxr> AC power ...
16:26 < rxr> it is connected to the transformer (coil) and regernating it to AC would be much more efford ...
16:26 < rxr> it definetly needs ac on that -/+ AC pins ...
16:26 < ooo> ok.
16:29 < ooo> any idea what the frequency could be?
16:31 < ooo> 50-60Hz?
16:32 < rxr> no idea ...
16:33 < rxr> I do not think the frequency with be that reformed ...
16:34 < ooo> what equipment would i need to measure the ac-pins from the working analog board?
16:34 < ooo> oscilloscope or something?
16:34 < rxr> but I guess normally it get's some heavily hacked/switched voltage
16:34 < rxr> yes oscilloscope
16:35 < rxr> or a very good - what wasd it named - a true rms multimeter
16:35 < ooo> ok, quite expensive equipment at my budget :( i'm recently unemployed.
16:36 < rxr> ouhm :-8
16:36 < rxr> I would just take on dc-dc converter and try it ...
16:37 < rxr> inject some low ac voltage and meassure the output ...
16:37 < mipe> args,****** gentoo,update failed no glibc atm. huoh
16:37 < rxr> what ?
16:37 < rxr> glibc what - vanished ?
16:38 < mipe> nvm,was updating gentoo install and it unmerged glibc and failed installing new one
16:38 < mipe> rxr:any news about the grub on x86_64?
16:39 < rxr> nope ...
16:39 < rxr> "A Londoner made a tsunami-relief donation using Lynx on Sun's Solaris operating system. The site operator decided that this 'unusual' event in the system log indicated a hack attempt, and the police broke down the donor's door and arrested him."
16:39 < jsaw> *g*
16:40 < ooo> i wonder if they arrest search engine spider -admins too :)
16:41 < valentin> rxr: url?
16:41 < daja77> /.
16:41 < rxr> yeah- I have those msnbots in my log ...
16:42 < rxr> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/01/28/031248.shtml?tid=172&tid=158&tid=17
17:00 < rxr> hm - my sparc at tfh is failign randomly ...
17:00 < rxr> damn
17:00 < rxr> guess kernel bug this time ..
17:00 < rxr> so /me off - cu
17:01 < jsaw> cu rxr
17:01 < jsaw> actually I have to go also, cu all
17:01 < jsaw> (gonna be back on monday)
17:06 -!- mipe [~mipe@dsl10040.japo.fi] has quit ["leaving"]
18:08 -!- mtr [~michael@Hbb42.h.pppool.de] has joined #t2
18:08 < mtr> moin
18:08 < rxr> moin
18:09 < rxr> jsaw: monday? :-(
18:09 < rxr> hi mtr
18:09 < mtr> hi rxr
18:34 < _Ragnar_> moin
18:41 < rxr> hi
18:41 < rxr> ouhm - just rendered my iBook unbootable while converting it to udev ;-)
18:42 < _Ragnar_> oops
18:42 < _Ragnar_> udev?
18:44 < rxr> the devfs replacement ...
18:44 < _Ragnar_> oh okay
18:44 < _Ragnar_> what's so much better about udev?
18:46 < rxr> it does not require pre device hardcoding ...
18:46 < _Ragnar_> oh okay
18:46 < rxr> it uses the 2.6 kernel's kobject to extract the device information from userspace out of /sys
18:47 < rxr> it is in userspace - can abretary complex things does support persistent naming ...
18:47 < _Ragnar_> eeeeks
18:48 < _Ragnar_> .oO(context switch for _every_ opening of a device?)
18:49 < rxr> nah
18:50 < rxr> ordenary devices nodes are craeted in /dev
18:50 < rxr> either on a normal filesystem - or with /dev as a tmpfs
18:50 < _Ragnar_> so you'd still need 100s of device inodes in /dev
18:51 < rxr> no
18:51 < rxr> the perfect way to use udev is to have /dev on a tmpfs
18:51 < rxr> mount none /dev -t tmpfs
18:51 < rxr> and then you populate them
18:51 < rxr> udevstart
18:51 < _Ragnar_> so every program will complain about not having /dev/zero or /dev/null
18:51 < rxr> depending on your settings in /etc/udev you get whatever device names you want
18:52 < rxr> _Ragnar_: what makes you think that?
18:52 < rxr> udevstart will put them into /dev on bootup ...
18:52 < _Ragnar_> tmpfs being initially empty?
18:52 < rxr> new devies that are plugged in will be added thru hotplug -> udev
18:53 < _Ragnar_> what about hds?
18:53 < rxr> udevstart or later udev via hotplug
18:53 < _Ragnar_> do we get hda1 hda2 hda3 ... usw even if there's only hda1 ?
18:53 < rxr> no
18:53 < rxr> momement
18:54 < rxr> phoning answer then ...
18:54 < _Ragnar_> okay;)
19:13 < _Ragnar_> rxr: I populated packages/x11/xorg/xorg.conf with a few 'eval pre/post.conf/make/patch' calls ... that okay?
19:26 < rxr> re
19:27 < rxr> yep
19:28 < rxr> _Ragnar_: udevstat iterates over the device "nodes" in /sys and thus only creates devices nodes for devices present
19:28 < _Ragnar_> ah okay
19:28 < rxr> e.g. not 10.000 possible /dev/hdaX /dev/sdY ones ...
19:28 < _Ragnar_> ;)
19:28 < rxr> thus you have as less devices as you have with devfs ...
19:28 < rxr> but in addition you have 100% user controlled names - not like the hardcoded ones of devfsd ...
19:28 < rxr> but if you fell so can just add rules to e.g. create
19:29 < rxr> /dev/ide/h0b0u0pX
19:29 < rxr> or so - just an exable ..
19:30 < rxr> + the other pros: user-space, no per device devfs cruft, no additional virtual in-kernel filesystem and so on ..
19:30 < rxr> + the biggest pro: blessed by kernel hackers - agreed "the /dev future"
19:32 < _Ragnar_> *lol*
19:33 < _Ragnar_> still uses major/minor?
19:33 < rxr> yes - and that is another pro: uses the major/minor out of /sys - so it will continue to jsut work when the kernel switched to randomly alocated major / minor in 2.7 or so ...
19:38 < rxr> I think I crawl into bed early today ...
19:42 < _Ragnar_> goodnight rxr
19:42 * _Ragnar_ would much more prefer to get rid of the major/minor concept altogether
19:45 < rxr> * Fri Jan 21 2005 Bill Nottingham 0.40.3-22
19:45 < rxr> - fix some random oddness (#114374)
19:45 < rxr> _Ragnar_: you need some indentifier ...
19:45 < rxr> the only real think you can do about it is to linearly (sequencielly) hand them out
19:45 < rxr> that is what will happen in 2.7 or so (at least Linus said so)
19:46 < _Ragnar_> you need some identifier for that, tho
19:46 < _Ragnar_> too*
19:48 < rxr> for the linearly alloced ontes ?
19:49 < rxr> nash - script interpretor to interpret linuxrc images
19:49 < rxr> ^- this fedora core initrd stuff is ugly ...
19:49 < rxr> I should stop looking at it ...
19:49 < rxr> I think I end up writing a totally new mkinitd thing - the rock inherited ones sucks majorly (although I already fixed it basically weeks ago)
19:50 < rxr> the redhat one is indiscutable brain dead and ugly ...
19:51 < _Ragnar_> *rofl*
19:51 * _Ragnar_ adds sinf and cosf to uclibc
19:52 < rxr> _Ragnar_: like sinf (float x) {return sin ((double)x);};
19:52 < rxr> ?
19:52 < rxr> on the 2nd look nash is not such a bad idea ...
19:52 < _Ragnar_> yes
19:53 < _Ragnar_> what's the advantage of nash?
19:54 < rxr> well - nash has many built ins ... like readlink, pivot_root and so on ...
19:54 < rxr> but I think although this is handy - I'll not use it - to RedHatig ...
19:55 < rxr> I think I take some other small normal shell we can also use for the install cd bootup / uboot ...
19:55 * _Ragnar_ nods
19:55 < rxr> a initrd only interpreter is just some additional maintenance burden
19:56 < _Ragnar_> could just hack the necessary builtins into kiss or sash
19:56 < rxr> yep
19:58 < rxr> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/55676
20:03 < _Ragnar_> jo schwachfug ... tut mir leid, aber da geht der gesetzgebung in .de einfach jeglicher gesunde menschenverstand ab
20:06 < valentin> damn, we should remove the dd package
20:06 < valentin> may be used to copy raw data
20:08 < _Ragnar_> yeah ;p
20:08 < _Ragnar_> and have a 10meg addon to the cp command to verify drm ...
20:11 < valentin> let us sue companies that sell true rng's - they will eventually output copyrighted data if run for a long enough time
20:14 < _Ragnar_> *g*
20:15 -!- Postal|Away [~root@ool-43562131.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:18 < rxr> so - linux booting again
20:19 < rxr> and /dev is udev now ...
20:22 < _Ragnar_> ;)
20:23 < _Ragnar_> how do I svn switch the repository?
20:26 < rxr> re
20:26 < rxr> svn switch http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk
20:26 < rxr> that may take some time
20:27 < rxr> since it does quite a lot work (e.g. all the real tag / branch switching checks / work)
20:27 < rxr> if you just want to switch the URL (due to access scheme change or server migration) you can use
20:27 < rxr> svn switch --relocate old-url new-url
20:28 < rxr> it is like running a brain dead sed -i ofer the .svn files ,-)
20:28 < rxr> and does no diffinf / merging ....
20:28 < _Ragnar_> *lol*
20:28 < rxr> none 321172 0 321172 0% /dev
20:29 < rxr> none /dev tmpfs rw 0 0
20:29 < rxr> none /dev/shm ramfs rw 0 0
20:29 < rxr> none /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
20:29 < rxr> none /tmp tmpfs rw 0 0
20:43 < _Ragnar_> svn switch http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk
20:43 < _Ragnar_> svn: 'http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk' is not the same repository as 'svn://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/t2'
20:44 * _Ragnar_ tries the 2nd approach
20:47 < rxr> ah - yes - forgot about this
20:47 < rxr> --relocate will work ...
20:47 < _Ragnar_> it did, but now 'svn up' says: Cannot replace a directory from within
20:48 < _Ragnar_> I did: svn switch --relocate svn://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/t2 http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk
20:48 < rxr> .oO
20:48 < rxr> you forgot the /trunk in the first ...
20:48 < rxr> try:
20:49 < rxr> svn switch --relocate http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/trunk http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk
20:49 < rxr> --relocate == --do-as-I-say-and-run-sed-i ;-)
20:50 < _Ragnar_> that looks better ;)
21:04 < rxr> wow - svn co scrolling thru quite fast ;-)
21:04 * rxr seldom does a svn co these days ...
21:05 < rxr> hm - co does not sature the server connection:
21:05 < rxr> Avg: 210.36 kBit/s
21:05 < rxr> it is 512 ...
21:06 < rxr> guess my poor client latency is limitting
21:13 < rxr> btw - knowldege base contribution:
21:13 < rxr> # ./scripts/Emerge-Pkg -noupdate -dry-run -debug gcc
21:13 < rxr> checking gcc ...
21:13 < rxr> gcc: New source checksum (2fa9c79935c28c43b8e0df880dfd0c7a). Added.
21:13 < rxr> Packages scheduled to build: gcc
21:14 < _Ragnar_> oooh
21:14 < _Ragnar_> ;)
21:23 < rxr> so - powerpc 2.1.0-beta3 build started ..
21:24 < _Ragnar_> okay installed a few of the uclibc packages on the destination system
21:24 < _Ragnar_> so far no glitches
21:24 < rxr> ;-)
21:26 < rxr> what the h*ll
21:26 < rxr> the debian [gcc-3.4_3.4.3-7.diff.gz] is 5.1MB in size ?
21:27 < _Ragnar_> ouch?
21:27 < rxr> I'll have fun reviewing whether they have any reasonable sparc64 fixes in it ... :-(((
21:28 < _Ragnar_> ;)
21:28 < _Ragnar_> yeah
21:29 < rxr> deflated it is 15MB in size ...
21:30 < rxr> ok - tons of debian/* junk
21:30 < rxr> why do they need to do this :-(((
21:30 < _Ragnar_> *hrhr*
21:31 < _Ragnar_> dunno
21:31 < _Ragnar_> maybe because they don't really understand the build system?
21:32 < rxr> kate does not really like scrolling in that 15MB file .. :-(
21:33 < rxr> .oO
21:33 < rxr> they patch a lot ..
21:33 < rxr> I just came across log of PowerPC junk and thre are sparc changes ...
21:34 < rxr> most probably most stuff are private hacks - otherwise it would be upstream ...
21:35 < rxr> oh - no - they already pulled gcc CVS bits in ...
21:35 < _Ragnar_> oh;)
22:05 < rxr> n8 all
22:05 < _Ragnar_> gn8 rxr
22:20 * _Ragnar_ grrrs at -beta4
22:20 < _Ragnar_> I didn't wanna do a complete rebuild just yet;)
23:31 -!- mtr [~michael@Hbb42.h.pppool.de] has quit ["Verlassend"]
--- Log closed Sat Jan 29 00:00:46 2005
02:05 -!- sparcky [~mubex@65-23-206-237.prtc.net] has joined #t2
02:07 -!- sparc-kly [~mubex@65-23-206-237.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:28 -!- ideal [~idealm@211.100.227.107] has joined #t2
02:30 -!- sparc-kly [~mubex@65-23-206-237.prtc.net] has joined #t2
02:30 -!- sparcky [~mubex@65-23-206-237.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:48 < Postal> Hey all
02:49 < _Ragnar_> hi
04:37 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.27.25] has joined #t2
04:38 < _Ragnar_> mnemoc!:)
04:43 < Postal> Hey mnemoc
04:43 < _Ragnar_> bbl, heading off
04:43 < Postal> cr _Ragnar_
04:44 < Postal> cu*
04:49 -!- mnemoc_ [~amery@200.75.27.32] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:03 -!- Postal is now known as Postal|Away
05:03 < Postal|Away> NICK Postal|Away
08:22 -!- madtux [~mike@196.40.44.28] has joined #t2
08:22 < madtux> re
08:22 < rxr> moin
08:22 < madtux> hi rxr...
08:22 < madtux> good mourning to you
08:22 < rxr> moin madtux !
08:25 < rxr> jsaw: you have an intanium box over there=
08:25 < madtux> intanium... yum
08:36 < rxr> !> /bin/sh: line 1: 29805 Segmentation fault (core dumped) ./conf ..
08:36 < rxr> arrrrgh
08:36 < madtux> du'h
08:36 < rxr> huh?
08:36 < rxr> core: ELF 64-bit MSB core file, SPARC V9, version 1 (SYSV), SVR4-style, SVR4-style, from '-gnu --host=spa'
08:37 < rxr> -gnu --host=spa ?
08:37 < madtux> mmh!?
08:37 < rxr> nice program ...
08:37 < rxr> madtux: how comes you are still awake?
08:38 < madtux> rxr: the fact that you nearly never see me online doesn't mean that i go to bed early.. i normaly stay up till 3 or 4 am
08:38 < rxr> ic
08:38 < rxr> nice to see you around here ;-)
08:38 < madtux> right now i'm just trying to finish work to have time again for t2
08:38 < madtux> its nice to be here
08:43 < rxr> package/./contrib/rtai/parse-config-9: line 23: [: =: unary operator expected
08:56 -!- madtux [~mike@196.40.44.28] has quit ["leaving"]
09:08 < rxr> cu
09:17 -!- rxr_ [~rene@213.54.206.111] has joined #t2
09:17 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | 2.1.0-beta2 RELEASED | The next generation of System Development Enviroments (SDE) | http://www.t2-project.org/ | CIA, don't ever leave us again!
09:17 -!- Topic set by mnemoc [] [Wed Jan 12 03:04:43 2005]
09:17 [Users #t2]
09:17 [ _Ragnar_] [ ideal ] [ nzg ] [ rxr ] [ valentin]
09:17 [ CIA-10 ] [ jsaw ] [ Postal|Away] [ rxr_ ]
09:17 [ daja77 ] [ mnemoc] [ praenti ] [ sparc-kly]
09:17 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 13 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 13 normal]
09:17 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
09:17 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
09:17 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 10 secs
09:33 -!- rxr [~rene@213.54.212.233] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
09:49 < rxr_> re
09:49 -!- You're now known as rxr
11:22 < rxr> so - me off to get to exam about "brain dumped" 8051 µC details ...
11:22 < rxr> like which bit in why special function register ...
11:22 < rxr> stuff a computer scientist _must_ know off hand ...
11:32 < CIA-10> martin * r5828 /trunk/package/network/centericq/centericq.desc: * updated centericq (4.14.0)
12:34 < rxr> ,-)
12:34 < rxr> hi
15:05 -!- ideal [~idealm@211.100.227.107] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:31 -!- mipe [~mipe@dsl10040.japo.fi] has joined #t2
15:33 < rxr> re
15:42 < jsaw> rxr: have you looked at the homepage (mail from Oana asking for commercial distro)?
15:51 < rxr> which homepage ?
15:55 < rxr> http://www.baum.ro/ ?
15:57 -!- ooo [~o@dsl-olugw3p33.dial.inet.fi] has joined #t2
15:57 < ooo> rxr: any success on hacking the iMac power supply (ac+/ac-)
15:57 < ooo> ?
15:58 < rxr> ?
15:58 < rxr> why do you ask ?
15:58 < ooo> because i have the same problem.
15:58 < rxr> .oO
15:59 < rxr> well - in fact that iMac is still at my parents ...
15:59 < ooo> google turned up the irc-log of this channel from 2004-12-30
15:59 < jsaw> rxr: respective baum.de
15:59 < rxr> my farther continued to analyze it and got the main board working on a ATX power supply ...
15:59 < ooo> and i haven't googled up any better soluton
16:00 < rxr> so the analog video board is defenitly defective ...
16:00 < ooo> i have a working analog board too, but i have no means to analyze the supply.
16:00 < rxr> since I was only interested in the powerpc board anyway and not in the iMac CRT I told him to prepare the board to be built into a old CD Player (19" hifi) case
16:01 < ooo> i gathered a few imacs with defective analog boards and i tested the logic boards (those work ok).
16:01 < rxr> unfortunatly he told me yesterday that he destroyed it with wile departing and meassuring ... :-(((
16:01 < ooo> ok, i think i have to do the atx way then.
16:01 < rxr> he has not found the defective part of the power supply ...
16:02 < ooo> i'll get 4 more imacs next month, 2 rev a/b/c/d and 2 rev e
16:03 < rxr> ;-)
16:03 < rxr> for free or cheap or so ?
16:03 < ooo> for free.
16:03 < rxr> cool - lucky you ..
16:03 < ooo> i have now 1 working rev e, 1 1Ghz G4, 1 faulty rev e and 1 faulty rev b.
16:04 < rxr> and for all the logic board does work ?
16:04 < ooo> the g4 is the only one i have paid for (as new, march 2003 when it was announced)
16:04 < ooo> all logic boards work.
16:05 < rxr> ;-)
16:06 < rxr> are you an electrican or so ?
16:06 < ooo> and i have no desire for the crt, but atx-powersupplies are big,ugly and noisy.
16:06 < ooo> nope, i'm just a coder with some basic understanding of electronics.
16:06 < ooo> very basic :)
16:07 < ooo> i have been thinking that maybe some tv-repairman could fix the high-voltage board.
16:08 < ooo> because i have no clue how to repair/analyze high voltage components.
16:11 < ooo> i'll recycle ano of the imac cases a cat toilet :)
16:12 < ooo> s/ano/one
16:16 < rxr> hehe
16:16 < rxr> yeah
16:16 < rxr> no need for ugly atx supplies ..
16:17 < rxr> go for some industrical low-noise ones ... that just deliver the voltages you need ...
16:17 < ooo> yeah, but i'd be cool to figure out what the ac+/ac- -current should be.
16:18 < ooo> as the down-converter is already a nice transformer but its input voltage is unknown.. :(
16:20 < rxr> ah - ok that is what you meant ... ,-)
16:20 < rxr> you do not have a lot of equipment there, hm?
16:21 < ooo> nope, just a multimeter.
16:21 < rxr> you could inject the AC current from some regulator and increase it until the correct voltage are on the output pins ...
16:21 < ooo> and it's acting erratically when trying to measure the ac-pins.
16:21 < rxr> yes - as jsaw pointed out due to the switched (hacked) voltage ...
16:21 < rxr> I guess it is about 20V
16:22 < rxr> maybe try to inject 12V or 14V first and measure the voltage on the output pins ...
16:22 < ooo> but it's just 4 pins going thru the logic board, do you think it could be as low as 20V?
16:23 < rxr> yes, I think so ...
16:23 < ooo> as the downconverter is supplying the hd, cdcom, mobo and usb/firewire too.
16:24 < ooo> at 20V it would be 4A or so then?
16:24 < rxr> they would not route s.th. higher over the whole logic board ... and they would not need some main power supply if they route the high voltate over the board
16:24 < rxr> I think you can not destroy s.th. with a too low voltage - just try it and see what the outcome is ...
16:25 < rxr> without the logic board connected ...
16:25 < ooo> ak, AC or DC -power?
16:25 < rxr> AC power ...
16:26 < rxr> it is connected to the transformer (coil) and regernating it to AC would be much more efford ...
16:26 < rxr> it definetly needs ac on that -/+ AC pins ...
16:26 < ooo> ok.
16:29 < ooo> any idea what the frequency could be?
16:31 < ooo> 50-60Hz?
16:32 < rxr> no idea ...
16:33 < rxr> I do not think the frequency with be that reformed ...
16:34 < ooo> what equipment would i need to measure the ac-pins from the working analog board?
16:34 < ooo> oscilloscope or something?
16:34 < rxr> but I guess normally it get's some heavily hacked/switched voltage
16:34 < rxr> yes oscilloscope
16:35 < rxr> or a very good - what wasd it named - a true rms multimeter
16:35 < ooo> ok, quite expensive equipment at my budget :( i'm recently unemployed.
16:36 < rxr> ouhm :-8
16:36 < rxr> I would just take on dc-dc converter and try it ...
16:37 < rxr> inject some low ac voltage and meassure the output ...
16:37 < mipe> args,****** gentoo,update failed no glibc atm. huoh
16:37 < rxr> what ?
16:37 < rxr> glibc what - vanished ?
16:38 < mipe> nvm,was updating gentoo install and it unmerged glibc and failed installing new one
16:38 < mipe> rxr:any news about the grub on x86_64?
16:39 < rxr> nope ...
16:39 < rxr> "A Londoner made a tsunami-relief donation using Lynx on Sun's Solaris operating system. The site operator decided that this 'unusual' event in the system log indicated a hack attempt, and the police broke down the donor's door and arrested him."
16:39 < jsaw> *g*
16:40 < ooo> i wonder if they arrest search engine spider -admins too :)
16:41 < valentin> rxr: url?
16:41 < daja77> /.
16:41 < rxr> yeah- I have those msnbots in my log ...
16:42 < rxr> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/01/28/031248.shtml?tid=172&tid=158&tid=17
17:00 < rxr> hm - my sparc at tfh is failign randomly ...
17:00 < rxr> damn
17:00 < rxr> guess kernel bug this time ..
17:00 < rxr> so /me off - cu
17:01 < jsaw> cu rxr
17:01 < jsaw> actually I have to go also, cu all
17:01 < jsaw> (gonna be back on monday)
17:06 -!- mipe [~mipe@dsl10040.japo.fi] has quit ["leaving"]
18:08 -!- mtr [~michael@Hbb42.h.pppool.de] has joined #t2
18:08 < mtr> moin
18:08 < rxr> moin
18:09 < rxr> jsaw: monday? :-(
18:09 < rxr> hi mtr
18:09 < mtr> hi rxr
18:34 < _Ragnar_> moin
18:41 < rxr> hi
18:41 < rxr> ouhm - just rendered my iBook unbootable while converting it to udev ;-)
18:42 < _Ragnar_> oops
18:42 < _Ragnar_> udev?
18:44 < rxr> the devfs replacement ...
18:44 < _Ragnar_> oh okay
18:44 < _Ragnar_> what's so much better about udev?
18:46 < rxr> it does not require pre device hardcoding ...
18:46 < _Ragnar_> oh okay
18:46 < rxr> it uses the 2.6 kernel's kobject to extract the device information from userspace out of /sys
18:47 < rxr> it is in userspace - can abretary complex things does support persistent naming ...
18:47 < _Ragnar_> eeeeks
18:48 < _Ragnar_> .oO(context switch for _every_ opening of a device?)
18:49 < rxr> nah
18:50 < rxr> ordenary devices nodes are craeted in /dev
18:50 < rxr> either on a normal filesystem - or with /dev as a tmpfs
18:50 < _Ragnar_> so you'd still need 100s of device inodes in /dev
18:51 < rxr> no
18:51 < rxr> the perfect way to use udev is to have /dev on a tmpfs
18:51 < rxr> mount none /dev -t tmpfs
18:51 < rxr> and then you populate them
18:51 < rxr> udevstart
18:51 < _Ragnar_> so every program will complain about not having /dev/zero or /dev/null
18:51 < rxr> depending on your settings in /etc/udev you get whatever device names you want
18:52 < rxr> _Ragnar_: what makes you think that?
18:52 < rxr> udevstart will put them into /dev on bootup ...
18:52 < _Ragnar_> tmpfs being initially empty?
18:52 < rxr> new devies that are plugged in will be added thru hotplug -> udev
18:53 < _Ragnar_> what about hds?
18:53 < rxr> udevstart or later udev via hotplug
18:53 < _Ragnar_> do we get hda1 hda2 hda3 ... usw even if there's only hda1 ?
18:53 < rxr> no
18:53 < rxr> momement
18:54 < rxr> phoning answer then ...
18:54 < _Ragnar_> okay;)
19:13 < _Ragnar_> rxr: I populated packages/x11/xorg/xorg.conf with a few 'eval pre/post.conf/make/patch' calls ... that okay?
19:26 < rxr> re
19:27 < rxr> yep
19:28 < rxr> _Ragnar_: udevstat iterates over the device "nodes" in /sys and thus only creates devices nodes for devices present
19:28 < _Ragnar_> ah okay
19:28 < rxr> e.g. not 10.000 possible /dev/hdaX /dev/sdY ones ...
19:28 < _Ragnar_> ;)
19:28 < rxr> thus you have as less devices as you have with devfs ...
19:28 < rxr> but in addition you have 100% user controlled names - not like the hardcoded ones of devfsd ...
19:28 < rxr> but if you fell so can just add rules to e.g. create
19:29 < rxr> /dev/ide/h0b0u0pX
19:29 < rxr> or so - just an exable ..
19:30 < rxr> + the other pros: user-space, no per device devfs cruft, no additional virtual in-kernel filesystem and so on ..
19:30 < rxr> + the biggest pro: blessed by kernel hackers - agreed "the /dev future"
19:32 < _Ragnar_> *lol*
19:33 < _Ragnar_> still uses major/minor?
19:33 < rxr> yes - and that is another pro: uses the major/minor out of /sys - so it will continue to jsut work when the kernel switched to randomly alocated major / minor in 2.7 or so ...
19:38 < rxr> I think I crawl into bed early today ...
19:42 < _Ragnar_> goodnight rxr
19:42 * _Ragnar_ would much more prefer to get rid of the major/minor concept altogether
19:45 < rxr> * Fri Jan 21 2005 Bill Nottingham
19:45 < rxr> - fix some random oddness (#114374)
19:45 < rxr> _Ragnar_: you need some indentifier ...
19:45 < rxr> the only real think you can do about it is to linearly (sequencielly) hand them out
19:45 < rxr> that is what will happen in 2.7 or so (at least Linus said so)
19:46 < _Ragnar_> you need some identifier for that, tho
19:46 < _Ragnar_> too*
19:48 < rxr> for the linearly alloced ontes ?
19:49 < rxr> nash - script interpretor to interpret linuxrc images
19:49 < rxr> ^- this fedora core initrd stuff is ugly ...
19:49 < rxr> I should stop looking at it ...
19:49 < rxr> I think I end up writing a totally new mkinitd thing - the rock inherited ones sucks majorly (although I already fixed it basically weeks ago)
19:50 < rxr> the redhat one is indiscutable brain dead and ugly ...
19:51 < _Ragnar_> *rofl*
19:51 * _Ragnar_ adds sinf and cosf to uclibc
19:52 < rxr> _Ragnar_: like sinf (float x) {return sin ((double)x);};
19:52 < rxr> ?
19:52 < rxr> on the 2nd look nash is not such a bad idea ...
19:52 < _Ragnar_> yes
19:53 < _Ragnar_> what's the advantage of nash?
19:54 < rxr> well - nash has many built ins ... like readlink, pivot_root and so on ...
19:54 < rxr> but I think although this is handy - I'll not use it - to RedHatig ...
19:55 < rxr> I think I take some other small normal shell we can also use for the install cd bootup / uboot ...
19:55 * _Ragnar_ nods
19:55 < rxr> a initrd only interpreter is just some additional maintenance burden
19:56 < _Ragnar_> could just hack the necessary builtins into kiss or sash
19:56 < rxr> yep
19:58 < rxr> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/55676
20:03 < _Ragnar_> jo schwachfug ... tut mir leid, aber da geht der gesetzgebung in .de einfach jeglicher gesunde menschenverstand ab
20:06 < valentin> damn, we should remove the dd package
20:06 < valentin> may be used to copy raw data
20:08 < _Ragnar_> yeah ;p
20:08 < _Ragnar_> and have a 10meg addon to the cp command to verify drm ...
20:11 < valentin> let us sue companies that sell true rng's - they will eventually output copyrighted data if run for a long enough time
20:14 < _Ragnar_> *g*
20:15 -!- Postal|Away [~root@ool-43562131.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:18 < rxr> so - linux booting again
20:19 < rxr> and /dev is udev now ...
20:22 < _Ragnar_> ;)
20:23 < _Ragnar_> how do I svn switch the repository?
20:26 < rxr> re
20:26 < rxr> svn switch http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk
20:26 < rxr> that may take some time
20:27 < rxr> since it does quite a lot work (e.g. all the real tag / branch switching checks / work)
20:27 < rxr> if you just want to switch the URL (due to access scheme change or server migration) you can use
20:27 < rxr> svn switch --relocate old-url new-url
20:28 < rxr> it is like running a brain dead sed -i ofer the .svn files ,-)
20:28 < rxr> and does no diffinf / merging ....
20:28 < _Ragnar_> *lol*
20:28 < rxr> none 321172 0 321172 0% /dev
20:29 < rxr> none /dev tmpfs rw 0 0
20:29 < rxr> none /dev/shm ramfs rw 0 0
20:29 < rxr> none /dev/pts devpts rw 0 0
20:29 < rxr> none /tmp tmpfs rw 0 0
20:43 < _Ragnar_> svn switch http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk
20:43 < _Ragnar_> svn: 'http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk' is not the same repository as 'svn://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/t2'
20:44 * _Ragnar_ tries the 2nd approach
20:47 < rxr> ah - yes - forgot about this
20:47 < rxr> --relocate will work ...
20:47 < _Ragnar_> it did, but now 'svn up' says: Cannot replace a directory from within
20:48 < _Ragnar_> I did: svn switch --relocate svn://svn.rocklinux-consulting.de/t2 http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk
20:48 < rxr> .oO
20:48 < rxr> you forgot the /trunk in the first ...
20:48 < rxr> try:
20:49 < rxr> svn switch --relocate http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk/trunk http://svn.exactcode.de/t2/trunk
20:49 < rxr> --relocate == --do-as-I-say-and-run-sed-i ;-)
20:50 < _Ragnar_> that looks better ;)
21:04 < rxr> wow - svn co scrolling thru quite fast ;-)
21:04 * rxr seldom does a svn co these days ...
21:05 < rxr> hm - co does not sature the server connection:
21:05 < rxr> Avg: 210.36 kBit/s
21:05 < rxr> it is 512 ...
21:06 < rxr> guess my poor client latency is limitting
21:13 < rxr> btw - knowldege base contribution:
21:13 < rxr> # ./scripts/Emerge-Pkg -noupdate -dry-run -debug gcc
21:13 < rxr> checking gcc ...
21:13 < rxr> gcc: New source checksum (2fa9c79935c28c43b8e0df880dfd0c7a). Added.
21:13 < rxr> Packages scheduled to build: gcc
21:14 < _Ragnar_> oooh
21:14 < _Ragnar_> ;)
21:23 < rxr> so - powerpc 2.1.0-beta3 build started ..
21:24 < _Ragnar_> okay installed a few of the uclibc packages on the destination system
21:24 < _Ragnar_> so far no glitches
21:24 < rxr> ;-)
21:26 < rxr> what the h*ll
21:26 < rxr> the debian [gcc-3.4_3.4.3-7.diff.gz] is 5.1MB in size ?
21:27 < _Ragnar_> ouch?
21:27 < rxr> I'll have fun reviewing whether they have any reasonable sparc64 fixes in it ... :-(((
21:28 < _Ragnar_> ;)
21:28 < _Ragnar_> yeah
21:29 < rxr> deflated it is 15MB in size ...
21:30 < rxr> ok - tons of debian/* junk
21:30 < rxr> why do they need to do this :-(((
21:30 < _Ragnar_> *hrhr*
21:31 < _Ragnar_> dunno
21:31 < _Ragnar_> maybe because they don't really understand the build system?
21:32 < rxr> kate does not really like scrolling in that 15MB file .. :-(
21:33 < rxr> .oO
21:33 < rxr> they patch a lot ..
21:33 < rxr> I just came across log of PowerPC junk and thre are sparc changes ...
21:34 < rxr> most probably most stuff are private hacks - otherwise it would be upstream ...
21:35 < rxr> oh - no - they already pulled gcc CVS bits in ...
21:35 < _Ragnar_> oh;)
22:05 < rxr> n8 all
22:05 < _Ragnar_> gn8 rxr
22:20 * _Ragnar_ grrrs at -beta4
22:20 < _Ragnar_> I didn't wanna do a complete rebuild just yet;)
23:31 -!- mtr [~michael@Hbb42.h.pppool.de] has quit ["Verlassend"]
--- Log closed Sat Jan 29 00:00:46 2005