--- Log opened Fri Dec 03 00:00:17 2004 00:24 < CIA-9> rene * r4925 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): 00:24 < CIA-9> * added new cad category 00:24 < CIA-9> * added pcb - a printed circuit board editor 00:24 < CIA-9> * adapted qcad CATEGORY tag 00:49 < mnemoc> moin! 00:51 < rxr> rehi mnemoc ;-) 00:51 < rxr> how was your day? 00:54 < mnemoc> very studied 00:54 < mnemoc> tomorrow i have a very important exam :\ 00:55 < rxr> oh - than happy learning 00:56 < mnemoc> thanks :) 00:56 < mnemoc> how has this been? 01:00 < rxr> how has it been over here? 01:00 < rxr> scanner dictating ... 01:01 < rxr> I rework my SANE/Avision backend (http://www.exactcode.de/oss/avision) like crazzy ... 01:02 -!- sparc-kly [~sparc-kly@64.237.130.173] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:04 < mnemoc> rxr: what about the fight about sane with the blog guy? 01:05 < rxr> no fight - it is not my backend - and I do not remote debug other's people backend especially with USB I/O errors intermixed ... 01:06 < rxr> I have enough to do ... 01:06 < rxr> I just can not stand people writing colorful pages that suck and get on the nerve of peopple in IRC instead writing a mail the the driver author in the first place ... 01:06 < rxr> s/that suck/about what sucks/ 01:07 < rxr> s/the the/to the/ ... 01:07 < rxr> avision.c | 157 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++----------------- 01:07 < rxr> avision.h | 12 ++-- 01:07 < rxr> ... 01:07 -!- sparc-kly [~mubex@64.237.130.173] has joined #t2 01:08 < rxr> too bad C is so untyped ... :-( 01:08 < mnemoc> oh 01:09 < rxr> will make my life hard when I split a enum into two ... since the compiler will just compile old assignments that are not of the same enum type anymore .... 01:14 < rxr> I now have thunderbird 1.0rc open on my iBook 01:14 < rxr> the icons changed ... 01:15 < mnemoc> does it build with firefox's gecko? :) 01:15 < rxr> no idea .. 01:15 < rxr> hm - and the progress wheel is tinies - but not yet at the same place as in firefox (not in the menu but in the toolbar) 01:16 < mnemoc> sounds nicer 01:16 < rxr> tinier even ... 01:17 < rxr> have you filled a bug report in the mozilla bugzilla that you now have 3 geckos insatlled on your system? 01:17 < mnemoc> no :\ 01:18 < mnemoc> i guess that would be a big dupe, isn't it? 01:18 < rxr> no idea ... 01:18 < rxr> hm - we might consider not isntalling the headers for thunderbird and firefox ... 01:18 < rxr> 96M /opt/firefox/ 01:18 < rxr> 176M /opt/thunderbird/ 01:18 < rxr> but much stuff might be duplicates due to several version built already ... 01:19 < mnemoc> i have sunbird too :) 01:19 < rxr> this is also on my todo for t2: optionally clean up obsolete files (e.g. not overwriten during update) 01:19 < rxr> rock based systems tend to grow too much for the in-system updates 01:20 < rxr> hope daja is asleep - so the rockers do not get that info to fast to reimplement it ... (or just cut'n paste our code ... - as they seem to have started to do ...) 01:22 < mnemoc> yes? 01:22 < rxr> jsaw's fl_wrapper appeared nearly byte indentically in submaster ... 01:23 < rxr> and I have the feeling that they lurk on our updates ... 01:28 < rxr> but I do not care right now - we can complain when they copy some bigger code technology fragmeent without proper copyright and authro notice 01:31 < mnemoc> rxr: jsaw mailed it 01:31 < rxr> mailed what wher? 01:31 < rxr> +e 01:31 < mnemoc> his patch 01:33 < mnemoc> Hi all. 01:33 < mnemoc> Have a look at this solution (see attachment): 01:33 < mnemoc> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.t2.devel/185 01:33 < mnemoc> George 01:34 < rxr> yeah - but not to rock AFAICS ... 01:34 < rxr> but does not matter that much ... 01:36 < mnemoc> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:14:00 +0100 01:36 < mnemoc> From: Juergen "George" Sawinski 01:36 < mnemoc> To: ROCK Development Mailing List 01:36 < mnemoc> Subject: Re: [rock-devel] Re: flist wrapper patch 01:36 < mnemoc> Message-Id: <20041129061400.350ad5f4.j4y54w@sawinski.de> 01:36 < mnemoc> i want to take some ideas from fake's fix for byteorder to use 2.6.9 headers 01:37 < rxr> .oO 01:38 < rxr> please let use wait the days until .10 and the fix those - maybe they have less regressions ... 01:38 < rxr> s/use/us/ 01:38 < rxr> damn - seems my body likes to sleep again ... 01:40 < jsaw> re 01:41 < rxr> hi jsaw 01:41 < mnemoc> rxr: sometime i think sleepeing might be a needing and not a bad habit 01:42 < rxr> I already slept far too long this morning ... 01:43 < jsaw> I mailed the info that I have a solution to the fl_wrapper thing to rock. I was a bit shocked, that no reponse came. Instead this guy (sorry, forgot the name) just copied it without any reference. IMO that's not the best style. I try to always make a note if I copied a fix from somewhere else. 01:43 < rxr> yep - sure ;-) 01:43 < jsaw> hi rxr, mnemoc 01:43 < rxr> I also marked the gcc34.patches I pulled outa rock as such ... 01:44 < mnemoc> hi jsaw 01:45 < mnemoc> jsaw: did you added the comment on submaster? 01:46 < rxr> avision.c | 216 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++---------------- 01:46 < rxr> avision.h | 20 ++++- 01:46 < jsaw> mnemoc: which comment? 01:47 < mnemoc> you. will you add a 'note' at http://www.rocklinux.net/submaster/smadm.cgi?i=2004113000334707584 ? 01:47 < mnemoc> may i? 01:48 < jsaw> no. 01:48 < rxr> we decided not to start a flame-war about it ... 01:48 < jsaw> I don't want to. I know it, you know it. That's it. It's GPL. 01:48 < mnemoc> ok 01:49 < rxr> nah - it's not GPL if the author is cutted away - but ... 01:49 < jsaw> (rxr gave a better explanation in one line... ;) 01:50 < jsaw> ehm, as far as i understand the GPL, the copyright of the package also applies to a patch. So, as I didn't add myself to the copyright of fl_wrapper.c, it's ok concerning the GPL. A mere ethical question remains. 01:52 < rxr> ah, well - sure 01:54 < jsaw> in germany I might argue with the UrhG :) 01:54 < jsaw> hehe 01:55 < jsaw> rxr: should we remove lisa? 01:56 < rxr> lisa ? 01:57 < jsaw> [I] A LAN Information Server 01:57 < rxr> yeah - just found it ... 01:57 < rxr> why do you want to remove it ? 01:57 < rxr> is it the thing kde depends on ? 01:57 < jsaw> it doesn't build, its 3 years old... 01:59 < rxr> hm 01:59 < rxr> let's review first if kde depends on it ... 01:59 < jsaw> checking if the homepage changed... 01:59 < rxr> there was s.th. lisa alike that I read between some lines of kde ... 01:59 < rxr> hm - too bad my iBo 01:59 < jsaw> oh, it's in kdenetwork 02:00 < rxr> ok has no USB 2.0 - scanning 300dpi 8bit*3channels color documents in duplex mode takes quite some time ... 02:01 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4926 /trunk/package/network/lisa/: * lisa is integrated into kdenetwork package 02:02 < jsaw> ups, should have added, that it got deleted... *meep* 02:02 < mnemoc> i hate kde just because of that 02:02 < rxr> mnemoc: ? 02:02 < rxr> btw. kde is really great ... 02:03 < mnemoc> kde is great 02:03 < mnemoc> but the package everything together 02:03 < jsaw> xfce are doing a great job in this respect. 02:03 < rxr> well - I mostly like it ... take a look at "all the many" gnome packages 02:03 < jsaw> many packages, but all with the same version number... in contrast to the gnome hell... 02:04 < mnemoc> kde -> gnome -> xfce 02:04 < rxr> I agree some stuff could be a bit factored out in the kde packages ... 02:04 < rxr> mnemoc: ? 02:04 < jsaw> his prefs i guess 02:04 < mnemoc> preferences 02:04 < jsaw> :) 02:04 < mnemoc> :) 02:05 < rxr> mnemoc: does this read kde is best or worst ? *g* 02:05 < mnemoc> rxr: worse just because that issue 02:05 < rxr> ok - and aside packaging - what are you pref. there? 02:06 < mnemoc> rxr: kde pacakges are amazing 02:06 < mnemoc> but i don't like to have different libs to do the same on my systems 02:07 < mnemoc> gtk --> xfce 02:07 < jsaw> rxr: did you already try e DR17 ? 02:07 < rxr> nope ;-) 02:09 < rxr> do you wanna try the update of all e* packages ? 02:10 < jsaw> would love to, but the deadline for my thesis is pressing hard... 02:10 < mnemoc> jsaw: do you you that fat-but-cool env? 02:10 < mnemoc> use* 02:10 < rxr> yeah - I understand - ... 02:11 < jsaw> actually I use gnome on my workstation and e16 on my laptop currently. 02:11 < mnemoc> jsaw: what will do you after you finish your thesis? :) 02:12 < jsaw> I somehow got used to gnome ... and I couldn't change my habit so far :) 02:12 < jsaw> mnemoc: continue. my boss wants to take me another 2 years to make a big impact publishing out of it (and me too of course) 02:13 < rxr> cool ;-) 02:13 < rxr> ok - just commited revision 160 of my Avision backend 02:13 < rxr> I get some tiny night snack - and then I decidce 02:14 < mnemoc> jsaw: great :) 02:14 < rxr> whether to crawl into bed or continue a bit ... 02:14 < jsaw> cool, yes, you name it. And that by pure coincidence. 02:14 < jsaw> I need to write up the story how I ended up here in this lab. 02:15 < jsaw> short form: a guy from america was looking for flat (i offered mine), but in the end didn't move out. he had to go back for a couple of weeks and couldn't find a flat here. I offered him to stay in my flat until he finds one. We became friends... 02:16 < jsaw> and finally he pushed me into neuroscience... 02:16 < mnemoc> oh 02:16 < mnemoc> i didnit knew that was an accident 02:19 < jsaw> oh yeah, and about of three years every night party... before I entered this lab. :)))) 02:20 < jsaw> probably I'd be doing particle physics without :) 02:21 < mnemoc> neuroscience sounds much cooler than particules :) 02:21 < jsaw> yes it does. But don't tell anybody that I'm a neuroscientist, the *real* slim neurscientist will get *real* pissed *g* 02:22 < mnemoc> =) 02:22 < jsaw> hehe 02:31 < rxr> Linux: Red Hat, Novell To Package Xen 02:32 < jsaw> Xen? 02:32 < mnemoc> x86 emu 02:32 < mnemoc> like qemu 02:32 < jsaw> ah, right. 02:46 < rxr> does anyone have -lGLU handy? 02:46 < rxr> does this one look cool: 02:46 < rxr> http://legolas.homelinux.org/~kent/electropaint/ 02:46 < rxr> ? 02:47 < mnemoc> *click* 02:48 < rxr> there is no screenshot ... 02:50 < mnemoc> nope :\ 03:03 < rxr> shit - my backend has a huge memory leak ... 03:03 < rxr> again a perfect example how many people peer review those code ... 03:09 -!- nullslack [~nullslack@203.131.109.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:15 -!- nullslack [~nullslack@203.131.109.114] has joined #t2 03:25 < rxr> ok - enough SANE/Avision for today ... 03:25 * rxr in bed ... 03:25 < rxr> late enough anyway ... 03:25 < rxr> have fun all - cu hopefully in the morning (when I manage to awake in time) 03:25 < mnemoc> cu rene 03:26 < rxr> n8 mnemoc - and much luck for your examination 03:27 < mnemoc> i need it 03:31 < jsaw> sleep well rxr 03:35 -!- mtr_ [~michael@Ha36f.h.pppool.de] has joined #t2 03:35 < jsaw> hi mtr_ 03:41 -!- mtr [~michael@H8442.h.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:07 < jsaw> <- leaving. Good luck mnemoc. cu! 04:08 < mnemoc> thanks jsaw 04:19 < nullslack> == 11:27:27 =[3]=> Building base/autoconf [2.59 2.1.0-beta]. 04:20 < nullslack> !> configure: error: perl is not found 04:20 < nullslack> == 12/03/04 11:27:51 =[3]=> Aborted building package autoconf. 04:20 < nullslack> ;( 04:21 < mnemoc> sorry, autoconf needs perl 04:21 < mnemoc> even linux kernel needs perl :( 04:22 < nullslack> !> checking for gm4... no 04:22 < nullslack> !> checking for gnum4... no 04:22 < nullslack> !> checking for m4... /usr/bin/m4 05:17 -!- rxr_ [~rene@p213.54.245.65.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2 05:17 -!- Topic for #t2: T2 | the system development environment | http://www.exactcode.de/t2 | C++ people around, too 05:17 -!- Topic set by rxr [] [Mon Nov 29 02:10:27 2004] 05:17 [Users #t2] 05:17 [ _martin_] [ daja77] [ mtr_ ] [ praenti_] [ sparc-kly] 05:17 [ _Ragnar_] [ jsaw ] [ nullslack] [ rxr ] [ valentin ] 05:17 [ CIA-9 ] [ mnemoc] [ nzg ] [ rxr_ ] 05:17 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 14 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 14 normal] 05:17 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004 05:17 -!- [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 05:17 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 16 secs 05:25 -!- rxr [~rene@p213.54.230.140.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:35 -!- _martin_ [~martin@brln-d9ba08bc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:06 -!- nullslack [~nullslack@203.131.109.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:32 -!- _martin_ [~martin@brln-d9ba1afb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #t2 06:46 -!- mtr_ is now known as mtr 09:31 -!- CorLis [~wehrlin@p508C222B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2 09:31 < CorLis> moin 10:06 < rxr_> moin 10:06 -!- You're now known as rxr 10:06 < rxr> hi CorLis 10:43 < CIA-9> rene * r4927 /trunk/package/gnome2/ (glib/glib.desc gtk+/gtk+.desc): * updated glib (2.4.7 -> 2.4.8) and gtk+ (2.4.13 -> 2.4.14) 10:45 < CorLis> hrmpf 10:45 < rxr> yes? 10:46 < CorLis> always when i compile, there are these updates :P 10:48 < rxr> there are always updates - just continue your build untouched 10:49 < rxr> total size of t2 sources on the mirror is 2899230192 10:50 * rxr showering and breakfast 11:18 < daja77> .oO (if you want to exclude from information, it is a bad idea to hilight me ...) 11:18 < jsaw> re 11:18 < jsaw> hi daja77 11:18 < jsaw> ? 11:20 < daja77> exclude me 11:20 < daja77> dunno rene thinks that I moght "steal" code 11:21 < jsaw> when was that? 11:22 < daja77> about 1:30 11:24 < jsaw> you don't take this comment that too serious, do you? 11:24 < jsaw> s/that// 11:24 < daja77> no 11:26 < daja77> it is gpl so what :) 11:28 < jsaw> ... 11:32 < daja77> ;) 11:35 < jsaw> Microsoft Sues Spammers 11:35 < jsaw> I hate this kind of news. 11:36 < jsaw> But hey, money makes the world go round, or did I misunderstand something in my physics class 11:45 < rxr> re 11:45 < jsaw> hi rxr! 11:45 < jsaw> dietlibc failed in stage 1... :( 11:45 < rxr> hi jsaw 11:45 < rxr> hm:-( 11:46 < rxr> a install target fully built here .. 11:46 * rxr @ uni - cu 11:46 < rxr> oh - hi daja77 11:46 * rxr away 11:46 < daja77> hi rxr 11:46 < daja77> cu :) 11:46 < jsaw> rxr, oh no, stage 3: 11:46 < jsaw> i386/PIC.h: Assembler messages: 11:46 < jsaw> i386/PIC.h:8: Error: junk at end of line, first unrecognized character is `1' 11:47 < jsaw> [snip] 11:47 < jsaw> ...checking later... 11:47 < jsaw> just if you have an immediate idea ;) 12:19 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4928 /trunk/package/office/ooo/ (distro.patch ooo.conf ooo.desc use-gcc-not-gcc33.patch): 12:19 < CIA-9> NOTE: still not building :( 12:19 < CIA-9> * update build system from ximian (1.3.6 -> 1.3.7) 12:19 < CIA-9> * remove a few variables from env, so that build won't break with 12:19 < CIA-9> "xargs: environment is too large for exec" 12:19 < CIA-9> * use patches from Gentoo for gcc34 (this breaks due to a 12:19 < CIA-9> malformed patch, but I can't see why it should be malformed...) 12:20 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4929 /trunk/package/religion/sword/ (sword.conf sword.desc): * move config options into its own conf file 12:21 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4930 /trunk/package/religion/biblestudy/ ( biblestudy.desc): * add package biblestudy 1.0 12:23 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4931 /trunk/source/: * ignore a few files in the source/ directory 12:24 < daja77> jsaw: you got ooo working with gcc-3.4.2? 12:24 < jsaw> no, not yet :( 12:24 < daja77> oh i c 12:24 < daja77> thought of an oo package too 12:25 < jsaw> I commit stuff whenever I get one step further, hoping somebody else might have a look... 12:25 < daja77> if you agree we might share that effort 12:25 < jsaw> np 12:28 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4932 /trunk/package/office/ooo/ (ooo.conf ooo.desc): * ooo: move the definition of oootag from .conf to .desc 12:38 -!- CorLis_ [~wehrlin@p508C2891.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #t2 12:41 -!- Netsplit saberhagen.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: _martin_ 12:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: _martin_ 12:54 < jsaw> <- lecture. cu later. 12:54 -!- CorLis [~wehrlin@p508C222B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:08 -!- mtr [~michael@Ha36f.h.pppool.de] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.11"] 13:17 < CorLis_> is it safe to stop build-scripts to restart it later? 13:24 < CorLis_> ohoh 13:24 < CorLis_> does t2 disable the /proc mount? 13:25 < CorLis_> df: `proc': No such file or directory 14:31 < jsaw> CorLis_: shouldn't be a problem to stop the build-script. Only point where I had problems once in a while if I stop it during the "Re-running configuration" phase. 15:05 -!- mtr [~michael@Ha36f.h.pppool.de] has joined #t2 15:05 < mtr> moin 15:42 -!- madtux [~mike@200.91.101.97] has joined #t2 15:42 < madtux> hello. 16:41 -!- nullslack [~nullslack@203.131.109.114] has joined #t2 16:43 -!- nullslack [~nullslack@203.131.109.114] has quit [Client Quit] 16:52 < rxr> moin 16:52 < madtux> hello. 16:52 < madtux> :) 16:52 < rxr> hi madtux 16:52 < rxr> CorLis_: t2 should not do s.th. to /proc 16:53 < rxr> jsaw: yes - the Config is problematic - since it does destructive editing of the config files - when interrupted the file might be incomplete or empty at all 17:12 < madtux> rxr: btw i built bootdisk target flawless last night on 4 different boxes 17:12 < madtux> rxr: _WITH_ my syslinux update in :) 17:13 < CorLis_> rxr: hrm. but it only happens on boxes where i run t2 scripts... 17:13 < CorLis_> heya madtux 17:13 < madtux> so maybe you would like to consider applying those pending syslinux updates ? :) 17:13 < madtux> good day CorLis_ 17:13 -!- CorLis_ is now known as CorLis 17:15 < rxr> madtux: yep 17:15 < rxr> thanks for the report 17:15 < madtux> np. 17:16 < madtux> rxr: oh and i just sent the router patch i forgot to attach sory about that.. well iguess its better than a 9mb attachment :) 17:16 < madtux> rxr: question do preffer patches inline or attached? 17:18 < rxr> I do not care -- I'm not a patch monkey like linus or clifford ... 17:18 < madtux> *g* 17:18 < madtux> .oO( It's great to work with rxr ) 17:24 < rxr> well - as long as it is a patch and applies and does the right thing (tm) - why should I care if it is -p0 or -p1 or inlined or not ... 17:25 < madtux> thats an excellent point 17:33 < CIA-9> rene * r4933 /trunk/target/router/ (build.sh router.txt): 17:33 < CIA-9> Miguel Bolanos : 17:33 < CIA-9> * fixed a typo on the syslinux_ver definition on build.sh 17:33 < CIA-9> * renamed the Router target to T2 Ruter Target 17:34 < madtux> urrgs 17:34 < madtux> Ruter 17:34 < rxr> ;-) 17:34 < madtux> *g* 17:34 < madtux> ah well its ok the the tree where it really matters :) 17:34 < madtux> trunk even 17:35 < madtux> rxr: i'll stabilize it between today and tomorrow i guess 17:35 < madtux> its not really that much work 17:36 < CIA-9> rene * r4934 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): * updated several syslinux downloads (2.11) 17:37 < madtux> hey! :) 17:37 < madtux> great.. now i got no pending patches i guess 17:37 < rxr> ouhps - forgot to paste your address over this one - sorry 17:38 < madtux> rxr: i'm not interested in fame.. just in making a good work 17:38 < madtux> :) 17:39 < rxr> I like good work and fame ;-) 17:39 < madtux> haha 17:39 < madtux> fame comes after the good work 17:40 < rxr> I take a look if I can locate my old automated patch apply script from rock-1.7 times ... - I had it on my old laptop which's HD is in my U5 these days - and I think I had it on my iBook too (since I rsynced my whole fat home - 17:41 < rxr> but I destroyed all my data on the iBook due to the shit damn fscking Mac OSX 10.3 formated my Linux partitions with UFS during re-install ... 17:41 < rxr> damn crappy commercial OSs ... 17:41 < rxr> I did not asked for tha t... 17:41 < madtux> :) 17:41 < madtux> let it all out come on 17:41 < madtux> :) 17:41 < rxr> yeah - it is still on my Athlon - cool ;-) 17:42 < rxr> yeah - especially the installer of osx sucks majorly ... 17:42 < rxr> and it is dog slow - especially running from CD ... or DVD ... 17:43 < madtux> even on g5 ? 17:43 < rxr> oh - there is still rock-linux including rock-linux.sm in that home *lol* 17:43 < madtux> or its not really dependent on the box 17:43 < madtux> rl.sm ? 17:43 < rxr> no idea - but it is slow due to continously accessing the CD ... 17:43 < rxr> submaster junk 17:43 < madtux> oh :P 17:43 < rxr> be happy if you never had to use it ... 17:43 < madtux> your beloved sm 17:44 < madtux> *g* 17:44 < rxr> yeah - do you love it? 17:44 < madtux> 1 lifetime wouldn't be enough to express the strong feelings i have for sm :) 17:45 < madtux> _PLEASE_ never make use something like that on t2 :) 17:46 < madtux> i still can't understand how they managed to get SMP to like it 17:46 < rxr> hehe 17:47 < rxr> no - I do not plan to setup up a work preventing barrier for t2 ... 17:51 < madtux> good 17:51 < madtux> :) 18:01 < madtux> rxr: how often do u run reference builds? 18:02 < rxr> I did not yet run a ref build - just desktop ones ... 18:02 < madtux> oh.. 18:02 < madtux> it might good to run one just update caches and so 18:03 < madtux> just to* 18:04 < rxr> no 18:04 < rxr> we ant to get rid of the cache files 18:04 < rxr> they change too often 18:05 < rxr> we want to split most stuff into a .dep files and with one line per dep 18:05 < madtux> i like that :) 18:06 < rxr> this way they to not alter that often and are more stable .. 18:06 < rxr> adn the .cache will only old the BUILD-TIME and maybe size or so .. 18:06 < rxr> but also in some relative value like the BSU or what it was used in LFS ... 18:07 < rxr> so that builds on other hardware produce nearly indentically values and it is possible to estimate the package build time for end-user emerges ... 18:08 < rxr> and then we'll additionally round it to some exponential value so that slightly build time changes do not render the .cache file out of date ... 18:08 < rxr> aside from new user features this will also result in more stable .cache files and a regression tester can run the wohle time without resulting in commit floods ... 18:09 < madtux> :) 18:10 < rxr> and until that time we should only update .cache files when the deps are not correct anymore .. 18:10 < rxr> the .cache files should be quite up-to-date regarding dependencies 18:10 -!- af [~af@ip-148-227.sn1.eutelia.it] has joined #t2 18:11 < madtux> this sounds very good 18:11 < madtux> ciao af 18:11 < madtux> :) 18:11 < af> hi :) 18:11 < rxr> and for example bulid error logs shoudl never be injected into the .cache files 18:11 < rxr> welcome af ;-) 18:11 < af> thanks rxr 18:15 < af> I am trying to build a system with the t2 stuff 18:15 < af> it sounds a nice idea 18:16 < madtux> af: is your build already started? :) 18:17 < af> just now 18:18 < af> I am trying with a minimal i86 router, first 18:18 < af> in which language is written t2? 18:18 < af> I mean the build env 18:18 < af> I am seeing this: build system rewrite (many parts in C++) 18:18 < rxr> bash - with sed and awk injections - as usual in shell scripts ... 18:19 < af> I see, why C++ then? 18:22 < rxr> to improve and speed up the build system and so on ... 18:22 < af> mhhh 18:23 < madtux> af: u are trying the Router target?! 18:23 < af> yeah. 18:23 < af> it is going 18:24 < madtux> af: errr.. man i would suggest to try a desktop target with a pkgselection.. ur router build will brake on stage 3 18:24 < madtux> af: i'm currently fixing it. 18:24 < af> oh. 18:25 < af> what about a live cd? 18:25 < madtux> rxr: whats the status on livecd? 18:25 < rxr> no idea 18:25 < madtux> ouch. 18:26 < madtux> af: you can let your current build move on but when it brakes u might need to stand by for my fixes 18:26 < madtux> af: i intend to have it stable and functional in 1 no longer than 2 days 18:27 < af> ok. 18:27 < madtux> would this be a problem for you? 18:27 < af> I can wait,, then no hurry at all 18:27 < af> just looking at the stuff 18:27 < madtux> good :) 18:27 < madtux> just let the build go on for now :) 18:28 < madtux> .oO( this is getting addictive .. again ) 18:28 < af> I would prefer python or ruby over C++ 18:29 < af> but, you know, I don't like C++ 18:29 < madtux> u are gentoo user aren't u ? 18:29 < af> nope, I was a debian user, now looking for something better 18:29 < af> debian since 1997 18:29 < madtux> you gave me the gentoo idea from the python comment 18:29 < af> so, I have used it for many years 18:29 < madtux> nice. 18:30 < af> no, ususally I write in C 18:30 < madtux> af: my first distro was slack back in 96 - 97 18:30 < af> but I have done something in python, I like it 18:30 < af> oh sure in that years slack was mastering 18:30 < af> I was slack too :) 18:30 < af> 1995 18:31 < madtux> when slack was fun? :) 18:31 < af> my very first linux distro 18:31 < af> well, I had to get a kernel patch for my poos scsi adaptec :) 18:31 < af> poor, even 18:32 < af> ok, time for a shower 18:32 < af> see ya later, guys 18:32 < madtux> cya af enjoy the shower 18:58 < mnemoc> moin! 19:07 < madtux> wb mnemoc. 19:09 < CorLis> okeys, nice weekend 19:10 -!- CorLis [~wehrlin@p508C2891.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["emerge drivehome"] 19:12 < mnemoc> hi madtux! 19:12 < madtux> yeah hi. 19:16 < rxr> hi mnemoc 19:20 < mnemoc> hi rxr 19:22 -!- nullslack [~nullslack@203.131.109.114] has joined #t2 19:23 < madtux> hello nullslack 19:24 < nullslack> hello madtux 19:24 < nullslack> any updates with the autoconf error? 19:25 < madtux> my autoconf error on the router target? 19:27 < nullslack> my autoconf error on the generic target...it says that it needed perl to build autoconf 19:28 < rxr> hm - interesting ... 19:28 < rxr> was perl not built? 19:29 < mnemoc> autocrap needs perl 19:30 < madtux> DO'H! 19:30 < madtux> nullslack: you are using _minimal_ pkg selection aren't you? 19:30 < madtux> not minimal+xorg but just minimal 19:31 < madtux> rxr: i know the error thats what made me check on the pkg sel for minimal.. 19:31 < madtux> i didn't look at it previously someone called mnemoc told me it was fixed. 19:32 < madtux> anyways i'm fixing it. 19:32 < nullslack> rxr, perl is not built 19:32 < madtux> brb i need some food. 19:32 < nullslack> madtux, yep, i'm using minimal template only 19:32 < madtux> nullslack: i suggest minimal+xorg minimal is broken atm 19:32 < mnemoc> madtux: i use my own minimal, rene told me he has updated pkgsel of it :) 19:33 < mnemoc> nullslack: ./scripts/Create-ErrList -cfg foo 19:34 < nullslack> [3] base/autoconf 19:34 < nullslack> 381 builds total, 63 completed fine, 1 with errors. 19:34 < mnemoc> uhm 19:34 < mnemoc> grep -e '^X .* perl' config/foo/packages 19:35 < nullslack> oh...not enabled 19:37 < mnemoc> enable pkgsel in your config and X perl please 19:37 < rxr> nullslack: what are you building? vanilla unmodified generic target? 19:38 < nullslack> rxr, generic target with minimal template excluding linux24 package only 19:38 < nullslack> mnemoc, then Build-Target again or Clean -full 19:38 < mnemoc> Config -cfg foo -oldconfig 19:38 < mnemoc> Download 19:39 < mnemoc> Build-Target 19:40 < nullslack> what does Config -cfg foo -oldconfig actually do? 19:41 < mnemoc> config without the UI 19:41 < mnemoc> no questions just updates 19:43 < rxr> madtux: do you right now work on a minimal update? Or should I copy the minimal+xorg and fix it up ? 19:43 < nullslack> ok 19:45 < madtux> rxr: i'm currently fighting with linux24 on my ultra5 .. if you have a chance then please go ahead 19:46 < rxr> ok - I do it 19:46 < rxr> do you build t2 on the U5? 19:47 < madtux> i'm atm :) 19:47 < mnemoc> rxr: what do you think about updatingh 2.6 to .10-rc? 19:47 < madtux> rxr: i still would like to get that sparc iso u promissed :) 19:48 < mnemoc> :D 19:48 < nullslack> can i request the minimal to be really "minimal" just the needed packages for it to boot and be the base for building anything you want ;) 19:48 < mnemoc> it's harder to release an iso with a damn broken kernel :) 19:48 < mnemoc> nullslack: sure you can request :) 19:49 < madtux> no nullslack thats actually the idea 19:49 < madtux> i certainly like the idea using _finals_ rather than pre's 19:49 < nullslack> no other utils like hddtemp, lm_sensors...it should be optional for the builder ;) 19:51 < mnemoc> nullslack: don't you wantot learn to do a targeT? :) you can take package selection from mnemosyne's plugins to have your minimal 19:51 < nullslack> just something quick to build and be able to boot from it then continue the development from there ;) 19:51 < rxr> nullslack: I guess no bind then? 19:51 < nullslack> mnemoc, i want to! but i really don't know where to start 19:52 < rxr> for some strange reason the current minimal includes bind ... :-( 19:52 < nullslack> rxr, yes...optional for the builder also 19:53 < rxr> mnemoc: do you think I should run a "grep CORE"++ over a rock tree and save the package selection into crystal.in? 19:53 < nullslack> because some people prefer djbdns over bind. that's also the same with MTAs 19:54 < madtux> a minimal system doesn not need either bind or djdns 19:54 < madtux> neither mta 19:54 < rxr> yeah - sure - I also do not think it should be in a minimal .. 19:54 < rxr> yep 19:54 < madtux> and rock's crystal sucks. 19:55 < madtux> it too limited for a "general porpuse" target 19:55 < rxr> sure it sucks ... - this is why I'm joking about it as package preselection .. 19:55 < rxr> I have no idea how the manage to polute their build kit more and more with such stuff ... 19:55 < rxr> yet another FLAG just to define a minimal desktop ... 19:55 < madtux> ack 19:56 < madtux> we should think more of specialized targets 19:56 < rxr> I mean - it is a slightly lightweighted desktop - but not more - and I really do not get the sense of flagging qt kdelibs kdebase and k3b as "CORE" !?!?! 19:56 < madtux> meaning.. a whole desktop, a mailserver with antispam and antivirus, a fileserver 19:56 < madtux> that kind of stuff could be of much more use and interest for users 19:57 < rxr> and so much to cliffords (at al) our repository grouping rulez - when base not enought to define a CORE anyway ... 19:57 < madtux> rxr: full ack with your statement .. its senceless 19:57 < rxr> but I still think a package preselection rule for crystal would be a cool joke ... ,-) 19:58 < mnemoc> rxr: th did that and created a bootstrap and a crystal-emu target 19:58 < mnemoc> without pkgfork 19:59 < mnemoc> madtux: i want to include target/$target/pkgsel support 20:00 < rxr> I saw it in 2.0 ... 20:00 < mnemoc> s/^madtux: // 20:01 < madtux> mnemoc: i don't know if its the best way to do it 20:01 < mnemoc> to clean config.in 20:02 < nullslack> minimal should be the base for all the other targets, whether desktop, server, etc... 20:02 < madtux> clean config.in ?! 20:02 < daja77> it is limited to fit on one cd, but yes the concept is not thought to an end 20:03 < mnemoc> hi daja77 20:03 < madtux> good day "Mr. Daniel" 20:03 < madtux> :) 20:03 < daja77> lol 20:03 < rxr> hi daja77 20:04 < daja77> damn haven't answered that guy, still not sure what the heck he is actually doin 20:04 < daja77> hi rxr 20:04 < nullslack> == 03:15:34 =[3]=> Building perl/perl [5.8.3 2.1.0-beta]. 20:04 < madtux> nullslack: not necesarily, even on minimal we should be able to enable special features.. meaning build it using uclib or ditlibc.. or enable selinux / grsecurity 20:04 < daja77> .oO (i should do more ranmting on crystal on ml) 20:04 < nullslack> hmm..perl is only built in stage 3? 20:04 < mnemoc> nullslack: outch 20:05 < madtux> daja77: maybe u can ask him... a simple "WTF are u talking about" should be enough :) 20:05 < nullslack> madtux, yes...but it should be disabled by default 20:05 < madtux> nullslack: yeah.. but what about router? i really like the way router target works. 20:06 < nullslack> mnemoc, should i abort it? 20:06 < mnemoc> nullslack: nope 20:06 < madtux> nullslack: let the build go on :) 20:06 < mnemoc> nullslack: keep walking :) 20:07 < madtux> nullslack: as i said yesterday let it go on.. if it makes you feel frustrated at some point then feel free to kick mnemoc .. it will make u feel good, ask daja77 he is an expert on that 20:07 < madtux> :) 20:07 < nullslack> ;) i'm enjoying it!!! 20:08 < madtux> nullslack: if you get bored u can read my blog 20:08 < madtux> http://mike.hsol.net 20:08 < madtux> i've been actually talking about t2 over there lately 20:08 < madtux> :) 20:08 < madtux> == 13:13:21 =[1]=> Building develop/distcc [2.18 2.1.0-beta]. 20:08 < madtux> 0_o 20:08 < rxr> daja77: "20:04 < daja77> .oO (i should do more ranmting on crystal on ml) 20:08 < rxr> " 20:09 < mnemoc> and my shop :\ 20:09 < rxr> what did you mean? 20:09 < madtux> i didn't know we had distcc in 20:09 < nullslack> madtux, router can be built using minimal...just add the net packages 20:09 < madtux> nullslack: actually we need les than minimal in some stuff 20:09 < madtux> mnemoc: u have a shop? 20:10 < madtux> mnemoc: you saw keinek's pic? 20:10 < mnemoc> weee :) 20:10 * madtux checking if we have scratchbox in as well 20:11 < daja77> rxr: well i am running crystal atm, not that bad, but i can only build that limited set, i want an additional set which can be fetched over the net, to get additional stuff, so you have one cd for install which is quite fine, and install other stuff when needed 20:11 < daja77> and I am missing the second part atm 20:11 < madtux> no we don't have scratchbox 20:11 < madtux> i guess i'll add it 20:12 < madtux> distcc and scratchbox are essential tools for my work on commercial embedded systems 20:12 < mnemoc> :D 20:12 < madtux> i can tell its a nice suprise to see distcc already in 20:12 < madtux> :) 20:12 < nullslack> madtux, but if you stick to being "minimal" anything can be built using it as a base 20:12 < rxr> scratchbox ? it sucks majorly - what do you need that for? 20:12 < madtux> testing 20:13 < madtux> at nokia we have been using scratchbox for a while 20:13 < mnemoc> "at nokia we" uhm 20:13 < madtux> do'h 20:13 * madtux on the phone 20:15 < rxr> madtux: nokia is sponsoring it ... 20:15 < rxr> I also had some crappy boy from nokia at the t2 booth of linux world expo an 20:15 < rxr> wanting to sell the stuff to me ... 20:15 < CIA-9> rene * r4935 /trunk/misc/pkgsel/ (minimal+xorg.in minimal.in): 20:15 < CIA-9> * converted the minimal+xorg templates to use s 20:15 < CIA-9> * copied the minimal+xorg to minimal and removed the X packages (way 20:15 < CIA-9> more minimal now) minimal has 82 active packages and minimal+xorg 85 20:18 < rxr> ohm - I forgot I did the minimal-desktop: 20:18 < rxr> Rene Rebe: 20:18 < rxr> * added a minimal-desktop package preselection template 20:18 < rxr> (used for the Linux Intern CD in the kiosks next month) 20:18 < rxr> one of the few times ROCK was on a silver CD ;-) 20:19 < madtux> :) 20:20 < madtux> rxr: yes it is. 20:20 < madtux> rxr: what kind of stuff? 20:20 < rxr> scratchbox ;-) 20:20 < madtux> *LOL* 20:20 < madtux> rxr: i'd like to know what u told him 20:21 < madtux> rxr: bash 3 is default in t2 right? 20:22 * madtux will buy a laptop for the first time - Suggestions? 20:25 < rxr> we only have bash 3.0, yes ... 20:25 < rxr> I do not need outdated crap on my boxes ... I also do not run linux 1.x somewhere ... 20:25 * madtux just read the mails about bash3 on the rlml 20:25 < madtux> :) 20:26 < rxr> maybe you could propose to add linux 2.2 and 2.0 as well as the last 1.x series to the pkgfork stuff of the rock lnu 20:26 < rxr> linux package ... 20:26 < madtux> talking about updates... its to test some 20:26 < rxr> madtux: I have posted a list of many possible updates ... 20:26 < madtux> _I_ could propose .. yeah right :) 20:27 < madtux> madtux: i have not seen such 20:27 < madtux> where is it at? 20:28 < rxr> where is what? 20:28 < rxr> (sorry /me reading ...) 20:29 < madtux> rxr: the list. 20:29 < rxr> ah - yes - that I was about to post here ... 20:29 < rxr> thats for the hint 20:29 < madtux> :) 20:31 < mnemoc> daja77 proposed bash3.0 20:32 < nullslack> pretty nice defaults in minimal+xorg ;) 20:33 < rxr> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.t2.devel/87 20:33 * nullslack is trying to decide whether to abort minimal...and build minimal+xorg instead ;) 20:34 < mnemoc> rxr: ? 20:36 < madtux> t2-devel?! 20:36 < madtux> is there another list besides t2@ec.de ? 20:36 < mnemoc> that's t2-devel 20:37 < madtux> it does exist?! 20:37 < madtux> anything else i should be subscribed to? 20:37 < mnemoc> there are two 20:37 < madtux> rxr syslinux-2.08 <- ? i upgraded us to 2.11 20:37 < mnemoc> t2 and t2-svn 20:38 < madtux> what is t2-svn about? 20:38 < mnemoc> commits 20:38 < madtux> so there is no t2-devel list right? 20:38 < mnemoc> automate 20:38 < mnemoc> d 20:38 < madtux> i do not care for the t2-svn list :) 20:38 < mnemoc> madtux: t2@ec.de is the devel list 20:38 < madtux> great 20:38 < madtux> i always though so.. but u confused me for a moment 20:39 < madtux> == 12/03/04 13:43:42 =[1]=> Finished building package silo. 20:40 < mnemoc> =) 20:40 < mnemoc> what target? 20:40 < madtux> dekstop 20:40 < madtux> desktop 20:42 < madtux> rxr: btw thx for the help with minimal 20:44 < daja77> .oO (minimal) 20:44 < rxr> mom 20:45 < madtux> daja77: minimal pkg sel 20:45 < madtux> dad 20:45 < madtux> :) 20:45 < daja77> which is an oxymoron somehow 20:45 < madtux> oxymoron ? 20:46 < mnemoc> contradictory 20:46 < daja77> yeah i tzhink a real minmal is kernel + bash 20:46 < mnemoc> i liked 'base' more than minimal 20:47 < madtux> daja77: we need some other stuff.. it should be called basic actually meaning it has the very basic stuff to get started and build your own custom rock/t2 whatever 20:47 < daja77> for rock we have it 20:48 < mnemoc> bootstrap? 20:48 < daja77> build-bootstrap iirc 20:48 < madtux> well congratz rocklinux 20:48 < madtux> :) 20:48 < madtux> i think i will play some more with minimal 20:52 < nullslack> way to go madtux!!! 20:55 < nullslack> package selection maybe template based...like "base" target and router template or desktop template or server template or development template ;) 20:58 < rxr> re 20:59 -!- mnemoc_ [~amery@200.75.27.47] has joined #t2 20:59 < rxr> daja77: you have problems .... - a minimal is a OpenFirmware prompt where you enter Froth - or what ... 20:59 < madtux> rxr: on that possible update list.. aboot-0.9pre1 is not newer than 0.9b :) 21:00 < mnemoc_> madtux: on mnemosyne i have pkgsel bundled per feature 21:00 < madtux> mnemoc_: i know i'm building mnemosyne 21:00 < daja77> rxr: hehe, well minimal linux would be like that 21:00 < mnemoc_> i have to optimize plugin selection, it's damn slow 21:00 < mnemoc_> that's why i have not continued migrating it 21:01 < daja77> it is jaust when you say minimal, everybody will find "bloat" in it 21:01 < mnemoc_> i want to add selectable plugins 21:01 < madtux> don't give me cheap excuses 21:01 < rxr> madtux: thre is a t2-svn list ... 21:01 < rxr> t2 is the devel list - beside it stuff like t2-user and so on will be added on need ... 21:02 < madtux> rxr: yeah mnemoc_ told me.. but it scares the $foo out of me to think that it will be like been subscribed to rock-sm 21:02 < madtux> rxr: well t2 is low traffic yet 21:02 < madtux> so devs and users can coexist there 21:02 < madtux> :) 21:03 < mnemoc_> =) 21:03 < rxr> t2-svn is mid-level - not the sm noise - jus the commits as you see them here ... 21:03 < rxr> (by CIA) 21:03 < madtux> mmm... i can handle that 21:03 < madtux> iw ill subscribe 21:04 < madtux> daja77: btw i hope you didn't take my comment as a personal thing.. you are a good friend of mine and you know.. but as sometimes can happen with friends, we differ in opinions this time 21:06 < nullslack> == 04:17:22 =[5]=> Building base/00-dirtree [0000 2.1.0-beta]. 21:06 < madtux> wee! :) 21:06 < nullslack> whoaa!!! things are getting pretty fast ey!!! 21:06 < nullslack> ;) 21:06 < daja77> madtux: which comment you mean 21:06 < madtux> bootstrap one 21:07 -!- mnemoc [~amery@200.75.27.36] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:07 -!- mnemoc_ is now known as mnemoc 21:07 < daja77> *shrug* i don't even mind if you "steal" and modify it 21:07 < madtux> :P 21:07 < madtux> daja77: good :) 21:07 < madtux> have a coockie 21:07 < madtux> cookie* 21:07 < daja77> ;) 21:12 < rxr> daja77: I see no bootstrap target or package preselection in ROCK ... 21:14 < mnemoc> rxr: 2.0 21:15 < rxr> so 2.0 has more features then trunk= 21:15 < rxr> ? evne 21:16 < rxr> even - damn 21:16 < madtux> interesting 21:16 < daja77> hm should be moved to 2.1 21:16 < daja77> *sigh* perhaps i should resign from both project (k. havent signed in here) 21:17 < rxr> daja77: ? 21:17 < rxr> ?!? the bootstap list is hevily bloated .... 21:17 < daja77> haha! 21:18 < rxr> why "haha" ? 21:18 < daja77> that's what i expected about minimal stuff, as i explained before 21:18 < daja77> and it doesn't matter it fits on one cd 21:19 < rxr> build-bootstrap.in is named "build-bootstrap.in" nothing minimal in it ... 21:19 < daja77> yes 21:19 < rxr> and it looks like a blown up minimal - not like a "bootstrap only and not more" ... 21:21 < daja77> it is always like that, some consider sth as bloat waht others need 21:22 < mnemoc> with minimal madtux wanted a simple but fully operative machine 21:22 < mnemoc> i think the name was wrong 21:23 < nullslack> maybe it should be called "base" instead of "minimal" 21:23 < nullslack> as in "base system" 21:24 < mnemoc> i liked 'base' more than minimal <--- one hour ago :p 21:24 < rxr> daja77: you do not need raid and lvm stuff in a bootsrap ... 21:24 < rxr> as well as text html browsers ... 21:24 < nullslack> mnemoc, oh ;) 21:25 < rxr> mnemoc: I read this - that is why I commneted in build-bootsrap is no minimal 21:25 < daja77> rxr: to answer that, well t2 is goin to be a distro rather than a buoildkit and rock is goin too far and slow, i have not much time for development,. so i'd need sth that just works, unfortunately there is nothing out there what i like) 21:26 < mnemoc> i hope t2-2.1 see the light soon 21:26 * nullslack is having a gut feeling his request will soon be fulfilled harharhar 21:26 < mnemoc> :) 21:27 < madtux> mnemoc: well i hope so too... and rather just hoping i have jumped in to contribute om accomplishing it 21:27 < madtux> nullslack: :) 21:27 < mnemoc> nullslack: i teach you to do your own target and your write a howto, deal? 21:28 < nullslack> mnemoc, DEAL! DEAL! DEAL! 21:28 < madtux> nullslack: charming thing about opensource projects and specially one like this.. if you like minimal still has too much stuff for you you can make ur own pkg sel template 21:28 < nullslack> ;) 21:28 < madtux> mnemoc: he start in 95 with all this so i could asume you are not dealing with a newbie 21:29 < nullslack> madtux, what do u mean? 21:29 < mnemoc> madtux: i don't want to teach a newbie :) 21:29 < mnemoc> i'll not teach linux, i'll teach him how to do his own target :) 21:30 < madtux> nullslack: well just stating that it won't be hard to teach u 21:30 < madtux> :) 21:30 < CIA-9> rene * r4936 /trunk/package/audio/alsa-utils/alsa.init: 21:30 < CIA-9> * improved alsa.init to use some reasonable defaults if no state 21:30 < CIA-9> file is present 21:30 < rxr> daja77: I have no idea what makes you think t2 will be a distribution ... 21:30 < mnemoc> nullslack: query? now or later? 21:30 < nullslack> why do i feel that the "smile" has some meaning 21:30 < madtux> mnemoc: teach us 21:30 < nullslack> ;) 21:31 * mnemoc kicks madtux 21:31 < madtux> mnemoc: i want to learn too 21:31 < madtux> ouch!!!!!!! 21:31 < mnemoc> you rocked two years before me 21:31 < mnemoc> before i* 21:32 < nullslack> mnemoc, ready!!! 21:32 < madtux> i did?! 21:32 < nullslack> ;) 21:32 < madtux> :P 21:33 < mnemoc> nullslack: you need target/$target/{preconfig.in,config.in,build.sh} 21:33 < mnemoc> preconfig.in registers the target 21:34 < mnemoc> config.in select packages, set config and ask stuff on Config 21:35 < mnemoc> and build.sh does the loop between packages and creates info for Create-ISO an the end 21:35 < mnemoc> those are the minimal files 21:35 < rxr> btw, I just started a desktop build to see if my toolchain rework does scale for a full build (tested bootdisk only so far) and generic errors pasted here scare me ... 21:35 < rxr> mnemoc: ack - I add this to the handbook ... 21:35 < rxr> now ;-) 21:35 < mnemoc> uhm 21:36 < mnemoc> :) 21:36 < mnemoc> nullslack: questions? 21:36 < nullslack> wait..lemme look at that dir 21:37 < mnemoc> it's bash so you hack as you want in there :) 21:42 < mnemoc> rxr: why is mike posting patches to the list? that remember me old rock times 21:43 < madtux> mnemoc: because i have not earned rw on svn yet.. 21:43 < madtux> mnemoc: and honestly i have no problem sending mails 21:44 < madtux> i hated SM on rock not the mails with patches 21:45 < daja77> yeah but you don't need write access with that 21:45 < mnemoc> hehe 21:45 * daja77 shuts up 21:45 * mnemoc wonders about mailing with svk 21:45 < madtux> daja77: you don't want to discuss with me about SM :) 21:46 < daja77> not here, not now 21:46 < rxr> why? Submaster is great .... 21:46 < madtux> that wasn't a question. 21:46 < madtux> :) 21:46 < daja77> the idea is ok, the implementation sucks 21:47 < mnemoc> it's a proof of concept, isn't it? 21:47 < rxr> how do I get a backslash in tex? 21:48 < rxr> \backslash does only work in math mode ... 21:48 < rxr> and \\ is obviously not an escaped backslash ... 21:48 < rxr> idea anyone? 21:48 < daja77> "\ 21:50 < rxr> undefined control sequence ? 21:50 < nullslack> mnemoc, i'll look at those files first...then bombard you with questions afterwards ;) 21:50 < madtux> rxr: i have interesting questiong for you.. are we going to keep the [M] flags for the packages as they are or how do u have in mind to control this? 21:51 < mnemoc> nullslack: ok :) 21:51 < rxr> mnemoc: dontrol what ? 21:51 < rxr> control even 21:51 < daja77> hm " is for excaping too 21:52 < madtux> rxr: was that really for mnemoc ? 21:53 < rxr> ah - no madtux what shoul 21:53 < rxr> .oO 21:53 < rxr> what do you think I might control ? 21:54 < madtux> ok perhaps control is not the right word, let me redo my question, are you willing to keep the package maintainers list from the rock .desc files are we going to "define" new maintainers out of the t2 team to replace the [M] flag? 21:55 < mnemoc> what about setting them all to unmaintained, and who think he is _really_ maintaining something take it? 21:55 < mnemoc> unmaitainted = t2@exactcode.de 21:56 < rxr> madtux: no - we replace the ones with people in not at T2 with ours when we touch them 21:56 < rxr> well - unmaintain hundreds of them looks quite unprofessional ... 21:56 < rxr> consider releasing 2.1 with 400 unmaintained packages ... 21:56 < rxr> I could sed my name in or so ... 21:57 < madtux> maybe we would like to just put in... The T2 Core Team 21:57 < rxr> but I think we should just gradually migrate them as we touch them 21:57 < rxr> well - that would rebuild all packages on some of my automated boxes ... 21:58 < madtux> i just an idea 21:59 < rxr> (we should only checksum the relevant parts for the rebuild anyway ...) 21:59 < rxr> e.g. no T I M A L ... 21:59 < rxr> and no COPY ... 22:17 < mnemoc> rxr: rfc mailed 22:30 < madtux> mnemoc: so tell me what are the real advantages on this? :) 22:30 < mnemoc> easier to maintain 22:31 < madtux> ... 22:31 < madtux> come on u can do better than that.. 22:31 < mnemoc> you can also use the same tools to validate custom pkgsels, templates and targets 22:31 < mnemoc> :) 22:31 < madtux> mm.. 22:32 < madtux> let me apply ur patch and play 22:32 < mnemoc> imo it's a cleanup 22:32 < madtux> this will be a busy weekend 22:34 < mnemoc> this will be a weekend full of fun to you 22:34 < madtux> yeah.. 22:35 < madtux> and it will be funny monday for rxr when i start sending patches out :) 22:35 < madtux> i won't be online again till mondya i think 22:35 < madtux> monday* 22:37 < mnemoc> why? 22:37 < mnemoc> i you patch alone we can't share work 22:38 < madtux> i'll go to the beach 22:38 < mnemoc> if* 22:38 < mnemoc> oh 22:38 < mnemoc> with becky? 22:38 < madtux> becky and her family 22:38 < mnemoc> and your mother? 22:38 < mnemoc> =) 22:38 < madtux> yeah 22:38 < madtux> its a family trip 22:38 < madtux> :) 22:39 < mnemoc> laptop isn't part of the family? 22:39 < madtux> laptop get in the car BEFORE anyone fromt he family 22:40 < mnemoc> =) 22:41 < madtux> mnemoc: u are invited if u want to come 22:42 < madtux> and i have not lost the hope to see rxr and daja77 come as well 22:42 < daja77> madtux: hm will you be there in berlin=? 22:44 < madtux> honestly i think i will go in "low seasson" tickets cost is VERY high right now, and with the new house and all i'm starting to consider cancelling the reservation 22:44 < madtux> if i go i have to pay on wednesday 22:48 < rxr> madtux: I'll most probably not be berlin around that date ... 22:48 < madtux> rxr: i know, 22:48 < rxr> madtux: new house? what have I missed 22:48 * madtux is married.. 22:48 < madtux> just that. 22:49 < mnemoc> *silence* 22:49 < rxr> oh ! congratulations ;-) 22:49 < madtux> danke ! 22:49 < madtux> rxr: feel free to come by anytime.. bring susan with u if u like :) 22:50 < rxr> yeah - thanks - I'm just very out of time - as usual ... 22:51 < rxr> but at some time I'm sure I find time to make a funny holiday over in CR ;-) 22:51 < madtux> you are telling _ME_ about been busy? :) 22:51 < madtux> good. 22:51 < mnemoc> hey madtux, you travel a lot more that us 22:52 < madtux> i do?! 22:52 < mnemoc> you do! 22:52 < madtux> well maybe but thats the cost of fame. 22:52 < madtux> i mean its just work 22:52 < madtux> :) 22:52 < madtux> i do have some rest for a day or some during a 2 week trip 22:52 < madtux> but the rest of the time there is hardly time to sleep 22:53 < rxr> http://dl.exactcode.de/t2-handbook/html/t2-handbook.html 22:54 < madtux> rxr: can i make a translation of the handbook? 22:54 < rxr> http://dl.exactcode.de/t2-handbook/html/t2-handbookch28.html 22:54 < rxr> sure - but better wait some more time until more content is in it ... 22:54 < madtux> u just let me know then :) 22:54 < rxr> it needs a lot more rock -> t2 transition and a lot more content ... 22:55 < jsaw> re 22:55 < madtux> jsaw: ! 22:55 < jsaw> \textbackslash 22:55 < jsaw> hi madtux 22:55 < rxr> so lets better first do some work on t2 and get the english version further before we start translation forks that need to be kept in sync ... 22:55 < jsaw> hi rxr 22:55 < rxr> hi jsaw 22:55 < madtux> very well 22:55 < mnemoc> hi jsaw 22:55 < jsaw> hi mnemoc 22:58 < madtux> rxr: we need some PR stuff if i'm spected to give talks about T2 on the different congress i will be at next year 22:58 < _martin_> hi 22:58 < jsaw> hi _martin_ 22:58 < _martin_> hi jsaw 22:58 < madtux> there is even a possibility that i give a talk at Linux World next year 22:59 < mnemoc> we need a release :) 22:59 -!- praenti_ [~praenti@mail.obster.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:59 < rxr> http://exactcode.de/rene/t2-pr-poster.* 22:59 < madtux> though maddog needs to get back to me with much more information 22:59 < madtux> click 22:59 < rxr> http://exactcode.de/valentin/T2.handout/T2.handout.* 22:59 -!- praenti [~praenti@mail.obster.org] has joined #t2 23:00 < rxr> + various other tiny graphic and PR files in that two dirs ... 23:00 < rxr> at some point in some months we want those polished and sorted on the homepage ... 23:00 < madtux> 23:00 < madtux> hello praenti 23:03 < madtux> are amd, ibm, motorola, intel, arm and sun really sponsoring t2? 23:04 < mnemoc> =D 23:08 * rxr back to SANE/Avision work ... 23:09 < rxr> need to earn money ... 23:10 < mnemoc> money is good for health 23:10 < rxr> yep ;-) 23:11 < rxr> and enhancing my scanner driver not that bad either 23:18 < rxr> == 23:17:44 =[2]=> Building base/gcc [3.4.3 2.1.0-beta]. 23:18 < rxr> 1012 builds total, 60 completed fine, 0 with errors. 23:47 -!- madtux [~mike@200.91.101.97] has quit ["see ya on monday folks!"] 23:50 < CIA-9> jsaw * r4937 /trunk/package/x11/fox/fox.desc: * update fox (1.3.19 -> 1.3.20) 23:50 < rxr> this reminds me on s.th. 23:50 < jsaw> ? 23:51 < rxr> I wanna patch the shutterbug think included to install to 23:51 < rxr> fox-shutterbug or so ... 23:51 < rxr> it is annoying that one can not complete shu to shutdown anymore .. 23:51 < rxr> isn't it ? 23:52 < rxr> btw, do you use fox for s.th. or did you updated it just for the fun of it ? 23:52 < jsaw> also calculator 23:53 < jsaw> because it failed building... 23:53 < rxr> adie - a text editor ... 23:54 < jsaw> Getaway 23:54 < rxr> ohm - start adie and click on about ... 23:54 < jsaw> not installed here 23:57 < rxr> maybe we want supply these to fox: 23:57 < rxr> --with-xft --with-xrandr --with-x 23:57 < rxr> cursor 23:58 < rxr> and enable --enable-release 23:58 < jsaw> checking for X11/extensions/Xrandr.h... yes 23:58 < jsaw> checking X11/Xcursor/Xcursor.h presence... yes 23:59 < rxr> jsaw: what do you think about just switching the "example apps" off? 23:59 < rxr> I mean do we want the strange screenshot tool, and this yet another editor thing ? --- Log closed Sat Dec 04 00:00:18 2004