T2 IRC Log: 2004-09-22
This is the log as captured by an IRC bot in the channel. The statements are those of the individual people and might not neccessarily reflect the policy and legal rules as set forth by the T2 SDE Project.
--- Log opened Wed Sep 22 00:00:19 2004
00:27 < rxr> jsaw_: e.g. when I want threecoumn instead of twocolumn?
00:27 < rxr> or any other adaption in such a style? Maybe you have some tip I overlooked?
01:26 < jsaw_> rxr: multicol.sty,geometry.sty etal are your friends
01:27 < jsaw_> fancyheadings.sty or fancyhdr.sty (forgot which is newer)
01:27 < jsaw_> what else...
01:29 < jsaw_> well, there are so many helper packages, there's definitely something that fits your needs.
01:35 < mnemoc> :)
01:35 < jsaw_> hi mnemoc
01:35 < mnemoc> hi jsaw_
04:37 < jsaw_> rxr: [D] 2061106526 X11R6.8.1-src1.tar.gz http://www.freedesktop.org/~xorg/X11R6.8.1/src/m
04:38 < jsaw_> last "m" in line (xorg.desc)
04:38 < jsaw_> another thing that seems odd, from xorg.cache: [LOGS] 5-xorg.log 9-xfree86.log
10:47 -!- rxr_ [~rene@p213.54.248.16.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
10:47 -!- Topic for #t2: t2 - for everyone demanding an up-to-date and open system - pre-release until October the 1st
10:47 -!- Topic set by rxr [] [Tue Sep 21 02:06:47 2004]
10:47 [Users #t2]
10:47 [ jsaw_] [ mnemoc] [ rxr] [ rxr_] [ valentin]
10:47 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 5 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal]
10:47 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
10:48 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 16 secs
10:58 -!- rxr [~rene@p213.54.215.197.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:50 < rxr_> re
12:51 -!- You're now known as rxr
12:51 < rxr> the cache is just due to sed running on the files to get correct dependencies ...
12:52 < rxr> only the first .log got substituted due to no /g for sed ..
12:53 < rxr> desc fixed - thanks!
12:53 < rxr> strange that I did not noticed testing it ...
16:27 < mnemoc> moin
16:30 < rxr> mon mnemoc
16:31 < mnemoc> hi rxr
16:32 < rxr> ho are you mnemoc ?
16:33 < mnemoc> i need 10 extra hours per day :\
16:33 < rxr> yeah! /me too!!!
16:33 < mnemoc> 24 is too short
16:34 < rxr> yes, it really is, god should have made up the univere rotate a bit slower ....
16:34 < mnemoc> yeah
16:35 < mnemoc> OT: how do distributions handle java restrictions when distributing openoffice and evolution for example?
16:35 < rxr> or our life last longer ...
16:35 < mnemoc> ibm-java can't be downloaded outside US :(
16:35 < mnemoc> rxr: to live more doesn't solve the issue
16:35 < rxr> ? I downloaded it already from de ...
16:36 < rxr> evolution needs java?
16:36 < mnemoc> yep
16:36 < rxr> this is new ...
16:36 < mnemoc> oops
16:36 < mnemoc> i mean eclipse
16:36 < rxr> I heared OO can nowadays built wihtout java
16:36 < mnemoc> [[ $foo = e* ]]
16:36 < rxr> and some redhat guy hacked eclipse and gcj to built together ...
16:36 < mnemoc> gcj is enough?
16:37 < rxr> for OO I heared you can diable the java plugin crap - but this is just some 3rd pary talk ...
16:37 < rxr> the distributions seem to license java to ship it with the CDs ...
16:37 < rxr> at least they did the last time I checked ...
16:37 < mnemoc> is it full operative without java?
16:38 < rxr> or just download java at a place not labelled us-only ...
16:38 < rxr> I "heared" this java plugin crap of OO can be disabled - it would be functional except you would not be ablee to use Java plugins - who needs those anyway ...
16:38 < rxr> but I have not yet looked at the OO foobar ...
16:41 < mnemoc> eclipse patch at google or it was acepted upstream?
16:42 < rxr> I read about the eclipse hack at www.osnews.com I think
16:44 < mnemoc> another question: is gnome24->gnome28 trivial, easy or hard?
16:44 < rxr> well - I would erase the /opt/gnome* content and rebuild
16:44 < rxr> I guess building in a gnome installed system will mess some binaries up
16:45 < rxr> but it is mostly getting all the updates done and additional packages / build priorities right
16:45 < mnemoc> yes, but new deps or extra core packages?
16:45 < rxr> except a brain-dead patch for pango it was trical
16:45 < rxr> oum - some new core or better "desktop" platform packages - not that much IIRC
16:46 < rxr> just copy in the T2 stuff and add a quote "imported from T2 into personal tree" and you should be done
16:46 < rxr> I already handed out jsaw a password - you can get one, too - so would get full write access even
16:46 < rxr> aside that we soon open it up anyways *g*
16:47 < rxr> for gnome-28 only 4-5 new "add-on packages" are missing - and some obsolete to be deleted - but the core stuff build all well in my two nightly test builds on my cluster here ...
16:47 < mnemoc> ok :)
16:47 < mnemoc> can gimp be built without gtk14?
16:47 < rxr> big YES
16:48 < mnemoc> you are saving my day :p
16:48 < rxr> it is gtk+2.x for a long time now ...
16:48 < rxr> so you want to get access?
16:48 < mnemoc> sure :p
16:48 < mnemoc> i don't promise much work for the moment but i can start learning your new schema
17:02 < rxr> so - our Ogg Vorbis package got a lift, too - up at 1.1.0 now
17:04 < rxr> btw the new build system stuff just slowly starts, so no need to learn much new yet, you can use T2 as stable ROCK replacement ...
17:15 < rxr> yet another new package
19:13 < rxr> hm, cool a gcc-3.4.2 built spartc64 kernel is 2xxkB smaller then a 3.2.3 built one
19:13 < rxr> let's see if it does s.th. usefull ... ;-)
19:13 < rxr> useful even
19:16 < rxr> hm - cool, it even boots up ;-) - let's see if it survives a load test - /me hope the hard-lock behaviour of my previously built gcc-3.2 based binaries changes ...
19:22 < mnemoc> =)
19:56 < rxr> box still up ;-)
19:56 < rxr> I run ping in a loop in one terminal now - so I notice when it hangs again without listening to the hd noise or turning my head ;-)
19:57 < rxr> jsaw_: thanks for the multicol - works now ;-)
19:58 < rxr> (I should not run xmms on my only hardware audio stream - then I could use flite to speak to me when the box goes down ;-)
19:59 < mnemoc> rxr: do you _know_ scott wheeler?
19:59 < rxr> ... flite "Attention - your sparg froze again" ... ;-)
19:59 < mnemoc> hehe
19:59 < rxr> hm - no ?
19:59 < mnemoc> ok
19:59 < rxr> who is it?
20:00 < mnemoc> a 'famose' guy from kde which will talk here today
20:00 < mnemoc> http://www.kde.cl/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=5
20:00 < rxr> I know some other german people from KDE ...
20:01 < rxr> interesting ;-)
20:01 < mnemoc> i wanted to know if he is really _someone_ there :D
20:04 < rxr> hm - I guess he is, claiming to work for SAP ...
20:05 < rxr> I meet with some of the team leaders - this does not mean I do know everyone there ... *g* - the team is just too large - and I do not develop @ kde - I'm just a user ....
20:05 < rxr> ah - he is the author of the TagLib ;-) - ok then I at least know some of his code ;-)
20:06 < mnemoc> :p
20:06 < mnemoc> what is SAP?
20:08 < rxr> erhm.
20:08 < rxr> ahuge company - developed "the" enterprise financial whatever software ....
20:08 < rxr> *g*
20:08 < rxr> http://www.sap.com
20:09 < mnemoc> oh, that SAP
20:09 < mnemoc> i thought SAP LinuxLab was something like sap.linuxlabs.com
20:41 < rxr> so - I near the end of a cool Linux Magazin article preview bash, sed and latex hack ...
20:42 < rxr> it does transform the magazine tags used by the magazine into s.th. latex is able to render ...
20:44 < rxr> cool - thing. should start throwing my publication stuff into subversion or so - so I do not easily screw all the crack up again ...
20:44 < rxr> hm - sparc still up ;-)
21:13 < rxr> hm - sparc still up - /me waiting for the freeze ;-)
21:23 < mnemoc> no freeze yet?
21:23 < rxr> nope - but this does not say much
21:24 < rxr> the avg. is twice a day or so ...
21:24 < rxr> so if the box is up tomorrow around lunch it is a better sign
21:24 < mnemoc> it's not much :p
21:25 < rxr> not freezing?
21:25 < rxr> or not much uptime? *g*
21:27 < mnemoc> not much time to way for a new record :p
21:27 < mnemoc> wait*
21:27 < rxr> yep - it can just crunch the T2 sparc64 build a bit further until then ;-)
21:27 < mnemoc> :p
21:28 < rxr> maybe the box just wants attention and likes to be pinged ;-)
21:29 < rxr> so some rock-solid IBM machine can ping the sad SUN the wohle day ...
21:30 < rxr> ok - the next new t2 package is on the way to be polished && tested ...
21:32 < rxr> david s. millers response to my private mail is not that informative as I hoped ... *sigh*
21:33 < rxr> so if the box freezes the next time I deflate a debian pre-build kernel and if that freezes, too complain at linux-kernel or decide it must be a hardware problem ...
21:34 < rxr> but I'm rather surpriced to find a gcc-3.4.x built 2.6 kernel run so long at all - I would have thought it would have more problems on the fragile sparc64 bit stuff ...
21:36 < mnemoc> do you thing they plan to get libstdc++ away from gcc some day?
21:42 < rxr> oh - in the past it was IIRC ...
21:42 < rxr> should not be that hard to split it into two seperate package in T2 ...
21:43 < rxr> in ROCK neither - just that I would not send a pkgfork complexity patch in for that ...
21:43 < rxr> do you highly demand it soon? I could work on such a beast in T":
21:43 < rxr> T2 even:
21:43 < rxr> gcc-c
21:43 < rxr> gcc-c++
21:43 < rxr> gcc-java
21:43 < rxr> gcc-libstdc++
21:43 < rxr> ...
21:48 < mnemoc> oh
21:52 < rxr> ?
21:53 < mnemoc> big split
21:53 < mnemoc> do you split it after build or one build per part?
21:53 < rxr> I have not yet split it ...
21:54 < rxr> but I would split it into really seperated packages and just build the parts requested - to save compile time when you only really want one ...
21:54 < rxr> I'm not a fan of the ROCK pkgsplit and -fork stuff ...
21:57 < rxr> http://www.cptech.org/ip/wipo/genevadeclaration.html
21:58 < rxr> sparc box still running - I must admit it managed to freeze sooner with gcc-3.2 built kernels - the 3.4 one is already running quite well ...
21:58 * rxr is currently happy about every minute ...
21:58 < mnemoc> =)
21:59 < mnemoc> OT: what is/was newlib?
22:02 < rxr> IIRC an alternative C library implementation, some stripped down glibc or so ...
22:03 < rxr> IIRC it might even be commercial and then bought by redhat or so ... - but I never looked that deep into it ...
22:04 < mnemoc> aha
22:06 < rxr> cool - T2 build on the sundown progresses further ;-) gcc just rebuilt itself, incl. the C++ parts ... and all the other stuff that failed due to broken dependencies now builds fine - yeah ...
22:07 < rxr> sundown == my freezing sparc64 box ....
22:12 < rxr> wow - onl crap on tv - so I have to watch some old video from my raid5 device during lunch, ...
22:12 < mnemoc> =)
23:09 < rxr> hm ;-) box still living ;-)
23:50 < rxr> cool
23:50 < rxr> == 09/23/04 23:44:36 =[5]=> Finished building package alliance.
--- Log closed Thu Sep 23 00:00:33 2004
00:27 < rxr> jsaw_: e.g. when I want threecoumn instead of twocolumn?
00:27 < rxr> or any other adaption in such a style? Maybe you have some tip I overlooked?
01:26 < jsaw_> rxr: multicol.sty,geometry.sty etal are your friends
01:27 < jsaw_> fancyheadings.sty or fancyhdr.sty (forgot which is newer)
01:27 < jsaw_> what else...
01:29 < jsaw_> well, there are so many helper packages, there's definitely something that fits your needs.
01:35 < mnemoc> :)
01:35 < jsaw_> hi mnemoc
01:35 < mnemoc> hi jsaw_
04:37 < jsaw_> rxr: [D] 2061106526 X11R6.8.1-src1.tar.gz http://www.freedesktop.org/~xorg/X11R6.8.1/src/m
04:38 < jsaw_> last "m" in line (xorg.desc)
04:38 < jsaw_> another thing that seems odd, from xorg.cache: [LOGS] 5-xorg.log 9-xfree86.log
10:47 -!- rxr_ [~rene@p213.54.248.16.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #t2
10:47 -!- Topic for #t2: t2 - for everyone demanding an up-to-date and open system - pre-release until October the 1st
10:47 -!- Topic set by rxr [] [Tue Sep 21 02:06:47 2004]
10:47 [Users #t2]
10:47 [ jsaw_] [ mnemoc] [ rxr] [ rxr_] [ valentin]
10:47 -!- Irssi: #t2: Total of 5 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal]
10:47 -!- Channel #t2 created Sun Aug 8 21:15:33 2004
10:48 -!- Irssi: Join to #t2 was synced in 16 secs
10:58 -!- rxr [~rene@p213.54.215.197.tisdip.tiscali.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:50 < rxr_> re
12:51 -!- You're now known as rxr
12:51 < rxr> the cache is just due to sed running on the files to get correct dependencies ...
12:52 < rxr> only the first .log got substituted due to no /g for sed ..
12:53 < rxr> desc fixed - thanks!
12:53 < rxr> strange that I did not noticed testing it ...
16:27 < mnemoc> moin
16:30 < rxr> mon mnemoc
16:31 < mnemoc> hi rxr
16:32 < rxr> ho are you mnemoc ?
16:33 < mnemoc> i need 10 extra hours per day :\
16:33 < rxr> yeah! /me too!!!
16:33 < mnemoc> 24 is too short
16:34 < rxr> yes, it really is, god should have made up the univere rotate a bit slower ....
16:34 < mnemoc> yeah
16:35 < mnemoc> OT: how do distributions handle java restrictions when distributing openoffice and evolution for example?
16:35 < rxr> or our life last longer ...
16:35 < mnemoc> ibm-java can't be downloaded outside US :(
16:35 < mnemoc> rxr: to live more doesn't solve the issue
16:35 < rxr> ? I downloaded it already from de ...
16:36 < rxr> evolution needs java?
16:36 < mnemoc> yep
16:36 < rxr> this is new ...
16:36 < mnemoc> oops
16:36 < mnemoc> i mean eclipse
16:36 < rxr> I heared OO can nowadays built wihtout java
16:36 < mnemoc> [[ $foo = e* ]]
16:36 < rxr> and some redhat guy hacked eclipse and gcj to built together ...
16:36 < mnemoc> gcj is enough?
16:37 < rxr> for OO I heared you can diable the java plugin crap - but this is just some 3rd pary talk ...
16:37 < rxr> the distributions seem to license java to ship it with the CDs ...
16:37 < rxr> at least they did the last time I checked ...
16:37 < mnemoc> is it full operative without java?
16:38 < rxr> or just download java at a place not labelled us-only ...
16:38 < rxr> I "heared" this java plugin crap of OO can be disabled - it would be functional except you would not be ablee to use Java plugins - who needs those anyway ...
16:38 < rxr> but I have not yet looked at the OO foobar ...
16:41 < mnemoc> eclipse patch at google or it was acepted upstream?
16:42 < rxr> I read about the eclipse hack at www.osnews.com I think
16:44 < mnemoc> another question: is gnome24->gnome28 trivial, easy or hard?
16:44 < rxr> well - I would erase the /opt/gnome* content and rebuild
16:44 < rxr> I guess building in a gnome installed system will mess some binaries up
16:45 < rxr> but it is mostly getting all the updates done and additional packages / build priorities right
16:45 < mnemoc> yes, but new deps or extra core packages?
16:45 < rxr> except a brain-dead patch for pango it was trical
16:45 < rxr> oum - some new core or better "desktop" platform packages - not that much IIRC
16:46 < rxr> just copy in the T2 stuff and add a quote "imported from T2 into personal tree" and you should be done
16:46 < rxr> I already handed out jsaw a password - you can get one, too - so would get full write access even
16:46 < rxr> aside that we soon open it up anyways *g*
16:47 < rxr> for gnome-28 only 4-5 new "add-on packages" are missing - and some obsolete to be deleted - but the core stuff build all well in my two nightly test builds on my cluster here ...
16:47 < mnemoc> ok :)
16:47 < mnemoc> can gimp be built without gtk14?
16:47 < rxr> big YES
16:48 < mnemoc> you are saving my day :p
16:48 < rxr> it is gtk+2.x for a long time now ...
16:48 < rxr> so you want to get access?
16:48 < mnemoc> sure :p
16:48 < mnemoc> i don't promise much work for the moment but i can start learning your new schema
17:02 < rxr> so - our Ogg Vorbis package got a lift, too - up at 1.1.0 now
17:04 < rxr> btw the new build system stuff just slowly starts, so no need to learn much new yet, you can use T2 as stable ROCK replacement ...
17:15 < rxr> yet another new package
19:13 < rxr> hm, cool a gcc-3.4.2 built spartc64 kernel is 2xxkB smaller then a 3.2.3 built one
19:13 < rxr> let's see if it does s.th. usefull ... ;-)
19:13 < rxr> useful even
19:16 < rxr> hm - cool, it even boots up ;-) - let's see if it survives a load test - /me hope the hard-lock behaviour of my previously built gcc-3.2 based binaries changes ...
19:22 < mnemoc> =)
19:56 < rxr> box still up ;-)
19:56 < rxr> I run ping in a loop in one terminal now - so I notice when it hangs again without listening to the hd noise or turning my head ;-)
19:57 < rxr> jsaw_: thanks for the multicol - works now ;-)
19:58 < rxr> (I should not run xmms on my only hardware audio stream - then I could use flite to speak to me when the box goes down ;-)
19:59 < mnemoc> rxr: do you _know_ scott wheeler?
19:59 < rxr> ... flite "Attention - your sparg froze again" ... ;-)
19:59 < mnemoc> hehe
19:59 < rxr> hm - no ?
19:59 < mnemoc> ok
19:59 < rxr> who is it?
20:00 < mnemoc> a 'famose' guy from kde which will talk here today
20:00 < mnemoc> http://www.kde.cl/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=5
20:00 < rxr> I know some other german people from KDE ...
20:01 < rxr> interesting ;-)
20:01 < mnemoc> i wanted to know if he is really _someone_ there :D
20:04 < rxr> hm - I guess he is, claiming to work for SAP ...
20:05 < rxr> I meet with some of the team leaders - this does not mean I do know everyone there ... *g* - the team is just too large - and I do not develop @ kde - I'm just a user ....
20:05 < rxr> ah - he is the author of the TagLib ;-) - ok then I at least know some of his code ;-)
20:06 < mnemoc> :p
20:06 < mnemoc> what is SAP?
20:08 < rxr> erhm.
20:08 < rxr> a
20:08 < rxr> *g*
20:08 < rxr> http://www.sap.com
20:09 < mnemoc> oh, that SAP
20:09 < mnemoc> i thought SAP LinuxLab was something like sap.linuxlabs.com
20:41 < rxr> so - I near the end of a cool Linux Magazin article preview bash, sed and latex hack ...
20:42 < rxr> it does transform the magazine tags used by the magazine into s.th. latex is able to render ...
20:44 < rxr> cool - thing. should start throwing my publication stuff into subversion or so - so I do not easily screw all the crack up again ...
20:44 < rxr> hm - sparc still up ;-)
21:13 < rxr> hm - sparc still up - /me waiting for the freeze ;-)
21:23 < mnemoc> no freeze yet?
21:23 < rxr> nope - but this does not say much
21:24 < rxr> the avg. is twice a day or so ...
21:24 < rxr> so if the box is up tomorrow around lunch it is a better sign
21:24 < mnemoc> it's not much :p
21:25 < rxr> not freezing?
21:25 < rxr> or not much uptime? *g*
21:27 < mnemoc> not much time to way for a new record :p
21:27 < mnemoc> wait*
21:27 < rxr> yep - it can just crunch the T2 sparc64 build a bit further until then ;-)
21:27 < mnemoc> :p
21:28 < rxr> maybe the box just wants attention and likes to be pinged ;-)
21:29 < rxr> so some rock-solid IBM machine can ping the sad SUN the wohle day ...
21:30 < rxr> ok - the next new t2 package is on the way to be polished && tested ...
21:32 < rxr> david s. millers response to my private mail is not that informative as I hoped ... *sigh*
21:33 < rxr> so if the box freezes the next time I deflate a debian pre-build kernel and if that freezes, too complain at linux-kernel or decide it must be a hardware problem ...
21:34 < rxr> but I'm rather surpriced to find a gcc-3.4.x built 2.6 kernel run so long at all - I would have thought it would have more problems on the fragile sparc64 bit stuff ...
21:36 < mnemoc> do you thing they plan to get libstdc++ away from gcc some day?
21:42 < rxr> oh - in the past it was IIRC ...
21:42 < rxr> should not be that hard to split it into two seperate package in T2 ...
21:43 < rxr> in ROCK neither - just that I would not send a pkgfork complexity patch in for that ...
21:43 < rxr> do you highly demand it soon? I could work on such a beast in T":
21:43 < rxr> T2 even:
21:43 < rxr> gcc-c
21:43 < rxr> gcc-c++
21:43 < rxr> gcc-java
21:43 < rxr> gcc-libstdc++
21:43 < rxr> ...
21:48 < mnemoc> oh
21:52 < rxr> ?
21:53 < mnemoc> big split
21:53 < mnemoc> do you split it after build or one build per part?
21:53 < rxr> I have not yet split it ...
21:54 < rxr> but I would split it into really seperated packages and just build the parts requested - to save compile time when you only really want one ...
21:54 < rxr> I'm not a fan of the ROCK pkgsplit and -fork stuff ...
21:57 < rxr> http://www.cptech.org/ip/wipo/genevadeclaration.html
21:58 < rxr> sparc box still running - I must admit it managed to freeze sooner with gcc-3.2 built kernels - the 3.4 one is already running quite well ...
21:58 * rxr is currently happy about every minute ...
21:58 < mnemoc> =)
21:59 < mnemoc> OT: what is/was newlib?
22:02 < rxr> IIRC an alternative C library implementation, some stripped down glibc or so ...
22:03 < rxr> IIRC it might even be commercial and then bought by redhat or so ... - but I never looked that deep into it ...
22:04 < mnemoc> aha
22:06 < rxr> cool - T2 build on the sundown progresses further ;-) gcc just rebuilt itself, incl. the C++ parts ... and all the other stuff that failed due to broken dependencies now builds fine - yeah ...
22:07 < rxr> sundown == my freezing sparc64 box ....
22:12 < rxr> wow - onl crap on tv - so I have to watch some old video from my raid5 device during lunch, ...
22:12 < mnemoc> =)
23:09 < rxr> hm ;-) box still living ;-)
23:50 < rxr> cool
23:50 < rxr> == 09/23/04 23:44:36 =[5]=> Finished building package alliance.
--- Log closed Thu Sep 23 00:00:33 2004